Bass Fishing Forum

I have been considering starting a thread like this one for a while now, and I suppose now is as good a time as any...

I wanted to open up a thread for any members here who repair reels and would like to post information about any and all reels that could be of use to other members when considering buying a reel or use of a reel concerning some common and not so common problems found when repairing reels.

I plan on trying to keep this thread updated from time to time and I hope Mike Cork and LMG and other reel repair techs will add information from time to time when something interesting comes up during a repair, information that could benefit all of us.

Here is a common problem with most reels. People don't service them enough. They like to wait till there are problems and parts need to be replaced due to wear from not servicing. Lol

<")))>{

Very true LMG... a lot of the reels I get in are from people who use them til they stop working...

The first reel I would like to chronicle is a Shimano Matanium XG.

This morning I was already working on a couple of old Shimano Citica 200D reels when a call came into the shop from a customer wanting his Metanium back today.

So our college hottie who answers the phone and talks to customers at the counter took the call and asked me if I could jump on the Metanium and I said I would as soon as I closed up the first Citica.

Upon looking at it from the outside I could see the braid line had stacked up on one side, the same side the line guide was stuck on. I tried turning the handled and it would turn but clicked because the line guide was frozen in place. I looked at the ticket and it said "fix line guide only" so no C&L. Just a quick fix of the problem.

So I began taking the reel apart to get at the worm gear shaft. Once I got the main drive gears out of the way I tried turning the handle again. Same thing, it clicked and the worm gear did not turn at all.

So I knew I had to take it fully apart to get at the problem.

I was surprised to find that a so called high end Shimano reel did not have any ball bearings in the line guide mechanism and was not even designed to have any ball bearings at all. Both ends of the aluminum worm gear were turning inside plastic only.

But on the end of the worm gear where the E clip is located I found quite a bit of corrosion. Just that one end had corroded from use in salt water and the white chalky oxidized aluminum had corroded right at the end where it fits into the plastic to spin. The white chalky corrosion had literally locked up and completely frozen the worm gear at that location.

I had to use some fine sand paper and sand the end of the worm gear shaft back to clean aluminum and grease it up as well as clean the plastic piece the worm gear slides inside of, and put it all back together.

Now it worked as good as new.

So my conclusion is that Shimano changed the metal of the worm gear from stainless steel to aluminum to not only save on production expenses, but to also lighten up the weight of the reel, but the problem now is just what I found... the aluminum does not take salt water very well and I am sure I will be seeing more of this type of problem in the future.

I have 4 new Shimano curado's and I could develop a similar problem with them.

So just be aware, that even though some of these reels are "higher end" reels does not mean they can handle salt water intrusion any better than cheaper reels, and it certainly does not mean they are made better either.

At this point I have decided I won't be adding any Metanium reels to my collection... especially living here in Florida. They may be fine for people who live much further from the ocean than I do.

Shimano baitcasters never really had bearing supported wormshafts. In fact they just started getting into having a bushing that you can replace with a bearing that i have done quite a few of to get them nice and smooth.

On a side note, as far as Shimanos levelwind systems, I have made quite a few disappointing discoveries.

Here is the wormshaft and pawl of a Scorpion70.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170317/bd7b93284d5cafc6c498eaa46f6a03e1.jpg)
Yes, thats a plastic wormshaft and pawl.

A Curado70
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170317/f21e162057438ba4c9b81f5cf932e3c1.jpg)
You can see the top right pic its the same thing, plastic.

A Metanium MGL that I did had a metal wormshaft, but a plastic pawl.

All this that I had discovered I took to Tackle Tours section of Shimanos product support and got answers from their rep that "its the new direction, and new materials that are proven to stand up. Its a secret plastic thats strong". And I get that its not an area of the reel thats under heavy strain or load, but really? Couldnt just leave it metal and metal? What are you saving in weight and cost? If you ask me, I think its just cheapening what Shimano has been known for. With that I sold my Scorpion 70, and have since stuck with my Curado50E, Scorpion XT1000, and Aldebaran MG. I refuse to buy a new Shimano product based on this.



<")))<{

I've been buying BPS PRO QUALIFIER, I like them, I have 1 Carbonlite reel and I compared the 2 this winter. I won't get another Carbonlite, 30$ more and cheaper made.
Rodney

Quote from: Oldfart9999 on March 17, 2017, 06:14:05 AM
I've been buying BPS PRO QUALIFIER, I like them, I have 1 Carbonlite reel and I compared the 2 this winter. I won't get another Carbonlite, 30$ more and cheaper made.
Rodney

The PQ is a great reel, but they are tanks. When you start throwing lighter rigs that weigh less together than a PQ does by itself, they get put away.

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on March 16, 2017, 07:45:52 PM
Here is a common problem with most reels. People don't service them enough. They like to wait till there are problems and parts need to be replaced due to wear from not servicing. Lol

<")))>{

Same with trucks!

I've done 5 PQ baitcasters and 1 PQ, 1 Extreme and 1 Black Carbonlite spinning reel all bought new. All I can say is the folks that assemble them must get paid buy how much lube they use, I cleaned enough out of each to lube 4 of each. The PQ bc and the three different spinning are nice reels.
Rodney

Yesterday when I was cleaning up my bench getting ready to head out the door fishing, a customer came in the front door with two reels he was reluctant to pay any money to fix. Shop owner took one and asked me to look at the other which I was told had no drag.

It was an old Bass Pro Johnny Morris reel.

The problem I was quick to find was that this particular customer said he took his reels to someone in Orlando to fix for him. And it appears all that person did was dip the reels into kerosene and handed them back to him.

Kerosene??? Seriously??? The entire shop began to smell.

And since this customer did not want the reels completely disassembled and put back together I just set about taking it apart far enough to dry up all the kerosene inside. The air compressor helped out a lot blowing a lot of it out.

But the drag stack was soaked in liquid kerosene. The cardboard drag washers were soaked in kerosene and deteriorating.

I spent most of an hour just cleaning off all the liquid kerosene. But I did this guy a favor when I put it back together for him... the only drag washers I had at hand quickly- rather than digging through Abu reels parts stock, were some old used drag washers. I installed for him a set of carbon fiber drag washers dry, lubricated his bearings after blowing out the kerosene and put it back together and only charged him a minimum and did not charge for the used drag washers.

But seriously, who the hell dips reels in kerosene and calls it a fix??? I was told this was something old timers did with much older reels. I'd sure like to find out who in Orlando is doing this. Surely they are not a professional repair shop??? Maybe one of the customers fishing friends???

Those two reels sure stunk up the shop!

Oh, and that other reel he brought in also dripping kerosene that another reel tech gets the fun in cleaning and repairing??? The customer who brought them into our shop said when he picked the reels up from the kerosene guy, that his line guide no longer worked. The pawl was now missing. Some repair! I hope I am at the shop when this customer comes back to pick up his reels. I want to ask him who did this.

Sounds to me like you have a lot of winners up in your area.  lo

I've never taken one apart but even I know that Kerosene goes in lamps not reels. (https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy89%2Flipripper%2Fslapstick%2520bonking%2Fsmileys7.gif&hash=a2d4aaa874af55132dd0383d346b51369a12aade) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/lipripper/media/slapstick%20bonking/smileys7.gif.html)

Quote from: Lipripper on March 31, 2017, 11:40:35 AM
I've never taken one apart but even I know that Kerosene goes in lamps not reels. (https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy89%2Flipripper%2Fslapstick%2520bonking%2Fsmileys7.gif&hash=a2d4aaa874af55132dd0383d346b51369a12aade) (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/lipripper/media/slapstick%20bonking/smileys7.gif.html)

Lotta Meth in them parts Lip.  lo

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on March 31, 2017, 12:11:51 PM
Lotta Meth in them parts Lip.  lo

It sure sounds like it  lo lo

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on March 31, 2017, 08:31:40 AM
Sounds to me like you have a lot of winners up in your area.  lo

And some really cheap customers too!   ~shhh

Just yesterday while at the shop another reel tech got some Abu parts in for 3 reels he needed to finish up.

As I walked by him working at his bench putting the new parts in I casually asked what reels are those? And then I kind of answered my own question with "Black Max?"

The reel tech had one laying on its side with internal clutch and gear parts facing up and he said these reels cost between $300 and $400 but they are pretty much the same thing as a $59 black max! He said look at all the plastic parts inside this $400 reel! All basically the same as the black max with exception of gears and couple of other features.

We both got a laugh out of that one. But hey, if Abu can sell a $59 reel for $400 all the power to them!

All reel manufacturers are doing basically the same thing making the same reels across a broad price range and making a few internal changes for the drastic price differences.

And this is precisely the reason I don't go any higher up than Curado because I get the same casting performance of the higher end reels for less dollars. I could stop at the Citica level and do the same thing for even less.

If I spent $400 on higher end shimano reels I would not get my casts out there any further than I am now. The extra money blown does not get my casts not one inch any further out there. The Citica and Curado have free spinning spools in the cast mode. I can not get anything more from reels costing 2 and 3 times as much money. So why go there??? Generally I don't. If I were a millionaire then maybe, but for now I have no reason to do so.

But fellas, make sure your side plates are closed and locked before using a reel!

We had a customer bring his brand new Curado 70XG into the shop that he basically destroyed on his first time out with it because he did not properly lock the side plate and so when he cast the reel the spool came out of the reel and bent the axle.

Have you used any high end Shimanos or Daiwas? If not, then you should just stick to your theory, because there IS a drastic difference. The same does not apply with Korean OEMs.

Yes I have. And I sold them too.

What I said was I did not get any further casting distance for the extra dollars. I work on all of these reels and have been for more than 30 years. It is because of this experience that I use what I use.

The Citica and Curado have a free spinning spool. What improvement can hundreds of dollars buy for me??? How do you improve a free spinning spool design??? Lessen the spool weight??? Not worth the dollars to me. And I do not need bling and bells and whistles. Been there. Done that. Returned to sanity is how I see it.

If people can afford to spend the dollars then all the power to them. I am just saying what works for me and why.

If they work for you, thats great. But if you are not familiar with tuning reels (yeah yeah I know you have 30 years experience) then you wouldnt get it. There is more to everything than just what you know of repairing and servicing reels. There are spools, bearings, gears (ratios and materials), handles, drags, interchanging parts for cosmetic purposes, different brake tabs (centrifugal) or brake magnets and rotors (magnetic), DC systems form Shimano, SV and 3D systems from Daiwa, and many other things that can factor into price and such for higher end reels. All can affect castibility and ease of use by the user.

Let's boil it down to its basics...

When a reel is in the cast mode, what matters?

With my cheaper citica's and curado reels, the new design offers a free spinning spool.

When the reel is in the cast mode, the only thing in operation is a spool usually with 3x10x4mm ball bearings on each end.

All of this is mounted in a frame whether that frame is plastic, graphite, aluminum, or magnesium does not matter. The principle all the way across the reel price spectrum is the same.

Next, you have 3 basic spool spin controls, you have a cast control knob, magnetic and or centrifugal brakes.

That's it.

When a reel is in the casting mode, it does not matter if it is a $100 reel or a $500 reel. We have a spool spinning mounted in a frame with 2 ball bearings and a couple of spin control features that vary with model.

Everything else on a reel is irrelevant in a cast mode. All bells and whistles pretty much.

This is why I do not spend $400 and $500 on a reel because all that is getting me are the extra bells and whistles that are not employed nor even used during a cast.

The shimano Antares top of the line says this for sales hype:

"ANTARES The flagship in Shimano's low-profile baitcasting reel line-up, the Antares reels - offered in two gear ratios for multiple freshwater fishing techniques features the ultimate in long distance casting performance. With Shimano's innovative Micro Module Gear System, plus a lightweight Magnesium frame, it's built to be fished hard."

A magnesium frame is their selling point for this high end reel?

I could not care less. Don't need it. Don't want it. I am perfectly happy with my solid aluminum frames.

Micro gear system??? Fancy name for simple gear design changes like more teeth cut onto a circular metal disc to smooth out the retrieve even more than it already is.

My curados are smooth enough for me. I do not need any upgraded micro gear system. Means nothing to me.

One of the main upgrades to the antares is a more sophisticated braking system. Whoopie. I have no problems casting my curado and citica reels as they are with a less sophisticated braking system. So why would I need more sophistication at spin control? I don't.

And according to the specs on the shimano website, the high end top of the line antares reel offers 11 pound of drag while the citica offers 12 pounds of drag.

Hmmm... a higher end reel costing hundreds of dollars more money has less drag than a citica??? I surely do not need that!

So you know, it is just a matter of affordability at this point. Do I want to drive a cadillac or a Toyota Corolla??? Both do the same thing and get me where I need to go. But do I need all the bells and whistles???

I decided long ago I do not, but if others can afford it and want it then go for it!

My whole point remains... a free spinning spool in a curado or citica reel that I purchased for around $100 gives me the exact same casting distance that a free spinning spool does in a $500 Antares.

Both reels have the same thing at operation in a cast mode- a free spinning spool on 2 ball bearings mounted in a frame. One offers more sophisticated spin controls that I have decided I do not need for the extra dollars. End of story. I choose to drive a Corolla rather than a cadillac.

Bells and whistles and bling are not for me.

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on April 01, 2017, 10:06:27 AM
If they work for you, thats great. But if you are not familiar with tuning reels (yeah yeah I know you have 30 years experience) then you wouldnt get it.

I have been upgrading reels since the 80's and have polished the inside of more pinion gears than I can count and even spool axles and gears. What a waste of time all that was!

As for "tuning" my newer curado and citica reels, the axle of the spool does not even touch the inside of the pinion gear. So no need to polish anything.

The only thing I can do to these reels is put in better ball bearings and today all of my reels have ceramic hybrid ball bearings and scream when I cast them.

And I do get it. Which is why I am at where I am now at.

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on April 01, 2017, 10:06:27 AM
There is more to everything than just what you know of repairing and servicing reels. There are spools, bearings, gears (ratios and materials), handles, drags, interchanging parts for cosmetic purposes, different brake tabs (centrifugal) or brake magnets and rotors (magnetic), DC systems form Shimano, SV and 3D systems from Daiwa, and many other things that can factor into price and such for higher end reels. All can affect castibility and ease of use by the user.

The bells and whistles!

Spools? I know nothing about spools. Guess I don't get it. Reels have spools? (being a smartass here for humor)

My curado spools are drilled out about as much as they can be. Nothing to gain there really. Any more holes and there would be nothing to wind line on.

Beaings? Very familiar with those too. Got that covered. Yeah I get it.

Gears and ratios? Yep, got that one too. I have reels from 3.8 t0 7.3 and everything in between.

What has this got to do with casting? It doesn't.

Handles? Again, has nothing to do with getting one more inch of casting distance. Just another bell and whistle to blow money on. Scratch that one off the list.

Drags??? This is an area I am very familiar with. But again, has nothing to do with casting or distance of casts. Scratch this one off the list too. Another bell and whistle item.

Cosmetics??? Has nothing to do with casting and nothing to do with reel function. Another bell and whistle to scratch off the list. Not one penny for this bling stuff from me! And has nothing to do with "tuning" a reel either. Pure bling! Useless junk to me!

Brakes??? An important feature for sure. I have used just about every type ever made. And I really like the simplicity of the SVS infinity braking system. I generally use only one brake shoe turned on, 3 turned off, and the dial is usually set around 4. A bare minimum of spin braking. Very minimal indeed. I don't need any more than this. If others do, then buy it. I can cast all day long without problems, even into wind.

So why would I spend hundreds more for stuff I just don't need? I don't. and I won't. But if others want to then go for it! I am simply saying I have been there, done that and turned back from it and am much happier with more money in my pocket for other things is my whole point.

Hundreds of dollars are not buying me any more feet of casting distance, and with where I am at now I do not need any more distance. Even with braid and 7.3:1 reels when my lure hits the water I am having a tough time reeling in the slack for an instant hook set because it is that far out there. Any further and I will have to jump up in speed to take up the slack faster for instant hook sets.

So my issue now is not casting distance, it is in being ready for a strike way out at the end of the casts I make now.

But yeah, I have been tuning up reels as you call it for just as many years. Nothing new here.

I just wasted time reading that. Yep, stick to your "basic" reels.

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on April 01, 2017, 10:52:28 AM
I just wasted time reading that. Yep, stick to your "basic" reels.

I will. I waste time reading a lot stuff around here too- this is what forums are for! But there is quite a bit of good fishing info though if nothing else and new lures to read up on! If I want bells and whistles and bling there is always TT!

Besides I get to meet a lot of really nice guys who turn into fishing buddies. So what could be better than that!

Forums are not a place for me to learn about reels that's for sure- I get enough of that from brand reps we are a factory service center for! These online forums are a great place for good casual friendly discussion is all. The best value I get here is new fishing buddies!

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on April 01, 2017, 10:54:30 AM
I will. I waste time reading a lot stuff around here too- this is what forums are for! But there is quite a bit of good fishing info though if nothing else! If I want bells and whistles and bling there is always TT!

Waste a lot of time reading stuff around here? Wow, considering this is probably the site that is filled with the most USEFUL info compared to others. Well, I guess if you count a certain 430 posts since 1/2015 as useless.  ::)

Sure, we all read stuff on these forums that provide no real life value. You just said the same thing for my posts. It is what it is!

I said the info I find useful is in fishing and new lures and best of all fishing buddies!

I don't need reel advice from this forum. I don't need rod advice from this forum. But I read it anyways- even yours. Think about how many people order a bag of lures and then run here to start an entire discussion thread over a bag of rubber worms. You know what I mean. Or, even hey everyone look at my new reel! Happens all the time. This is what forums are filled with.

So yeah, online forums are filled with a lot of useless info and posts we have to dredge through for the gems!

This is the truth!

It is just the nature of the beast.

I like pretty reels 😛

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

Quote from: FISH520 on April 01, 2017, 11:18:38 AM
I like pretty reels 😛

hehe... I am not a color matcher that is for sure! If I am looking at that while fishing I ain't fishin!

I remember reading on TT one day some guy made an entire thread post discussion asking everyone for advice on what blue reel he should buy to match his blue rod.

I almost answered back Shakespeare makes one!

I would never drop $400 or $500 on a reel  but $200 And buy some upgrades yes. Better bearings to make it smoother. Lighter parts and yes some bling
The entire goal is the catch fish and yes none of this helps. But this my hobby and it's a collection also. Lures, rods, reels ...  it's my thing and I don't mind dropping some extra $ on what I want.
I'm getting more and more into working on reels and it gives me satisfaction on doing the work myself and learning from others.
We all can grab a stick from the yard  put a line on the end and a hook on it and catch a fish. But I'd rather have I really nice rig that I put my time and friends time into making it MINE  and in some cases better than it was.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

And that is totally cool too! Cadillacs are great rides too!

Being a good reel tech is far more than just being a glorified parts changer.

Shimano and other brands have tolerance and other issues concerning their products that a good reel tech has to learn.

For example some reel manufacturers only allow certain lubricants to be used in their reels.  And who outside of factory service reps know this stuff?

Shimano issues two drag greases now. Anyone know the difference or what reels use which grease?

A customer won't usually find out about it until they show up with a reel wanting it repaired under warranty only to find out that they have used the wrong oil or grease on it and shimano will not cover that under warranty.

Tolerances are another issue.

Just yesterday at the shop an old Shimano stradic 2500FH was being repaired. When the reel tech thought he was finished with the reel it then gets passed around to other techs to check out. Only then was a tolerance issue caught.

The reel tech had installed the main drive gear too tightly between the side plates. Corrosion on the main drive gear had prevented a bearing from seating all the way down so when the tech put it together it was too tight, smooth yes, but too tight and the tech did not catch it, but other factory trained techs did catch it.

The reel had to be opened up again, and the tolerance issue corrected to shimano's exacting standard. Once that was done, the reel made its rounds again among the reel techs and passed so it could be returned to the customer.

They also caught a noisy bearing too and had that replaced as well.

We even manufacture parts at times or modify parts from other reels just to keep some old reel going.

So it is not all about being a fantastic parts swapper, it is also about knowing and following manufacture guidelines for their reels.

We cut down drive shafts to fit other reels when original parts are not available. We cut and grind pinion gears when parts are not available.

The shop I work at part time these days has been in business for 31 years and has a huge supply of old reels and reel parts that we draw from regardless of brand to keep reels operating beyond their normal life cycle.

How many people take into consideration when removing old drag washers and replacing with carbon fiber that the new drag washer stack has the same thickness as the factory drag washers did? A lot of carbon fiber drag washers are thinner than stock drag washers. This has to be taken into account and adjusted for.

I have had a lot of fun over the years playing with drag washers buying all sorts of materials and cutting my own washers and experimenting with drag abilities of reels. A good learning process. And my years in metal work has helped a lot as well because it gives the hands on skills and experience to sit down with a 50 year old reel's brass gear and file each tooth if necessary.

It never ceases to amaze me all the variety of reels and problems we encounter, but that is what makes reel repairing, modifying, and upgrading a challenge as well as even fun sometimes.

Certain lubricants? This isnt limited slip differentials. Im not gonna give my secrets away,  but I use the same grease and oils on all reels I service and never had issues, but rather improvements. Tight tolerences? Oh you mean how things are shimmed and placed specifically in a reel, and if you dont put things back the way they belong you have issues. Its not rocket science, and if you are good at that kind of stuff and can follow schematics you should be ok. Fixing and pinpointing problems are another thing, which is understandable. Its kind of like mechanics. Some have been around forever and dont know chit, while others that know how to take the info gained to good use.

<")))<{

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on April 01, 2017, 12:23:59 PM
Certain lubricants? This isnt limited slip differentials. Im not gonna give my secrets away,  but I use the same grease and oils on all reels I service and never had issues, but rather improvements.

Those improvements could be warranty killers too! Some manufacturers make reel parts out of certain plastics, rubber, etc. and using the wrong type of lubricant can adversely affect those parts, sometimes by melting them or dissolving them. It is chemical reactions to be avoided sometimes.

Shimano patented several drag washer materials. And the grease the company issues will not adversely affect those drag washers. Using the wrong kind of grease can.

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on April 01, 2017, 12:23:59 PM
Tight tolerences? Oh you mean how things are shimmed and placed specifically in a reel, and if you dont put things back the way they belong you have issues. Its not rocket science, and if you are good at that kind of stuff and can follow schematics you should be ok.

True enough, but quite often you will find a number of parts inside of reels that are not even listed nor shown on the schematic. Every reel coming off the assembly line has different shims inside. No two reels are the same.

And sometimes the replacement parts are not exactly the same as the original parts, so learning how the particular brand approaches shim tolerances is a good thing to learn from factory reps who teach these things to the techs at their factory rep service centers.

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on April 01, 2017, 12:23:59 PM
Fixing and pinpointing problems are another thing, which is understandable. Its kind of like mechanics. Some have been around forever and dont know chit, while others that know how to take the info gained to good use.

<")))<{

Also true enough.

I had a curado brought in for warranty repair recently because the customer swore up and down the tumb bar no longer worked and he just knew it was all Shimano's fault.

Once inside the problem was clear- salt water corrosion inside a reel designed for freshwater use.

4 ball bearings later and a good sanding of the pinion gear and he was back in business, but now the discussion over whether it should be covered under warranty or not. I can assure you service centers and corporate headquarters have two differing points of view on this one.

Im well educated on the products I use and know that they are OK for reels, in fact you can go out and buy tube of GM wheel bearing grease and use that if you wanted. Shimanos Star drag grease is amazing, and really all you need fir any reels drag discs. Yes, most reels will have an extra shim here and there for "snugging" up certain areas, but that again falls into knowing what you are doing, and being systematic and caring about what you are doing. Thats a big difference I see when dealing with an individual "tuner" vs a repair place that "pumps" out reels. But most people dont know any different. And none of my customers are worried about warranty as I can fix them if needed, and they get the reels back better and smoother than stock. Hell, most send me a brand new in box reel to tune before even using. Lol

<")))<{

FloridaFishinFool

Thank you again for your very informative posts. 

I am not against your viewpoint but I have different opinions regarding the choice of reels. The use of reels is not ONLY about "casting" or "casting distance". For me, "retrieving" and "convenience" (preventing backlash) are also very important.

I used Shimano Stella, Shimano curado, Shimano Core, Shimano Metanium, Daiwa Tatula Type R, then Daiwa Steez, Daiwa Steez SV limited (JDM), Daiwa Zillion SV TW, Daiwa Luvias, Shimano Stradics. 

I am not rich but would spend money on 5-8 "better" reels for 10-15 years.

What amazed me firstly was Daiwa Tatula Type R (in 2013). It was the one made me turn more to Daiwa. Reasons? Firstly, magnet braking, very likely. At least I don't need to open the cover for adjustment (Curado, Metanium). I need to admit, the fine adjustment (1-20) of brake in Daiwa is very precise and easy to do. 

Also, Daiwa Tatula Type R is much more smooth than Curado 200HG when retrieving. Much more. This is the another reason I turned to Daiwa, I believe.

Last year I got Daiwa Zillion SV TW and compared it with my 2 Steez. Zillion is at least equal to Steez in every aspect (casting distance, smooth, backlash) I concern. For this finding, I am not going to spend money on Daiwa SV TＷ. Lucky me.

I don't mind internal PLASTIC gear (white color stuff). Compared with other mechanics, obviously bass fishing reels have much less stress. If plastic gear is far sufficient for its job, why bother it has to be metal? I mean, did you frequently service fresh water bass fishing customers whose reels had plastic gear issue? I am interested in learning more about this. Thank you.   

Plastic is fine for non exposed internal no stress parts. Its the lack of maintenance that kills them. Excessive buildup of dirt that gets trapped in the grease and on the gears that will slowly grind them away.

<")))<{

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on April 01, 2017, 12:57:40 PM
Plastic is fine for non exposed internal no stress parts. Its the lack of maintenance that kills them. Excessive buildup of dirt that gets trapped in the grease and on the gears that will slowly grind them away.

<")))<{

Thank you for your reply. What kind of "lack of maintenance" you are referring? Do we have to regularly disassemble the whole reel for maintenance? In my view, reels are delicate and unless it's necessary, why bother disassembling it once a year after purchasing it as new?

I mean, last year I fish for 50 times, each time I brought 4-5 rods with me on board. In average I used each reel for 10 times/year. Each trip, let's say 10 hours, a reel is 100 hr/yr. No dropping in water, no internal corrosion (salt). What kind of maintenance do I need? Should I "disassembling" it each year after the fishing season is over? It's hard to convince me to do that. I am not a professional as you guys and not sure if I can assemble it back after disassembling.  :-)

I bought an expensive mechanical watch in 2009. The seller told me to send it back for "cleaning" (oiling...by the maker) and it costs around 250 dollars. For the past 8 years I never send it back and the watch is still running well.

What I do now is to remove spool, clean and grease the reels. I did not remove handles and go into the internal parts. Luckily, I don't have any issues so far (all reels are in 3 years old or less).     

Its gonna depend on the idividual, and what kind of conditions they fish. Do you keep your reels covered when not in use? Do you use them in dirty conditions? Taking them apart is no big deal on a reels life, only if you use the incorrect tools and over/under tighten things. In your case, maybe not a full tear down every year, but maybe every other. You may just want to add a drop of oil to the bearings once a year or less depending on use.

<")))<{

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on April 01, 2017, 01:19:37 PM
Its gonna depend on the idividual, and what kind of conditions they fish. Do you keep your reels covered when not in use? Do you use them in dirty conditions? Taking them apart is no big deal on a reels life, only if you use the incorrect tools and over/under tighten things. In your case, maybe not a full tear down every year, but maybe every other. You may just want to add a drop of oil to the bearings once a year or less depending on use.

<")))<{

Thanks. One of the reasons I like Daiwa is they have Magseal on some models. As long as I do not take apart the reel, ideally it will keep internal parts sealed. In my case, in normal condition there is no way dirt will get into the internal.

Quote from: Bassun67 on April 01, 2017, 03:10:12 PM
Thanks. One of the reasons I like Daiwa is they have Magseal on some models. As long as I do not take apart the reel, ideally it will keep internal parts sealed. In my case, in normal condition there is no way dirt will get into the internal.

There is still ways for dirt to get in there, its just better protected.

<")))<{

I worked on a bunch of spinning reels yesterday taking them from the "fix only what is broken" pile and there were mostly Daiwa spinning reels in the pile all with the same problem- broken bail springs snapped in half.

Is it a design flaw or, just cheap steel or, great design and great steel and everyone just wore them out???

Same problem across a half dozen low-end Daiwa reels.

The Daiwa bail spring shown in the following image is how they are made and sold. But if anyone tries to install this spring as shown below they are in for a huge disappointment. The spring will not stay in place. There is a proprietary adjustment that has to be manually done before attempting to replace this part. Daiwa says one adjustment is enough, but I have done as many as 4 adjustments to improve its operation inside the reel.
(https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fg%2F%7ERUAAOSwvUlWq7ko%2Fs-l1600.jpg&hash=3b29bb09acf0c8b9a1134ea0cfd0b7b9d8f0ef1d)

Next up was a Penn Fierce spinning reel. Bail was just flopping around. Once inside nothing was broken. The spring arm pivot guide had simply fallen out of the bail arm.

Reason for failure... cheap plastic part wore down...

(https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fg%2FEtsAAOSw-0xYaQ8J%2Fs-l1600.jpg&hash=c108475c928692e6067d6edffc6f51cde9bdf8f1)

Looking at the above image, do you see that little titty for lack of a better word facing you? That is what keeps the pivot in place up inside the bail arm as it slides back and forth. When the lubrication wears out it is plastic on plastic for awhile, but eventually this little titty wears down and the pivot on the end of the other side simply falls out of place turns sideways and the reel fails.

Design flaw? Materials flaw? I would say a little of both. In Shimano reels they have an all steel part with no protrusion titty to wear down and fall out of place. Shimano reels do NOT have this built in problem waiting to happen.

So for me, I can safely scratch low end daiwa spinning reels off the list of reels to use and scratch Penn Fierce spinning reels off the list too. I don't need failures waiting to happen.

Here is the basic shimano spinning reel bail system. Notice in the center of the photo is an "L" shaped all steel spring arm pivot guide? Yeah that one is not going to wear down and turn sideways and fail like the Penn reels.
(https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fg%2FEagAAOSwU8hY5Q2T%2Fs-l1600.jpg&hash=ada50b1d6e4dd252e4d76c453294822fec44967d)

There was one shimano stradic 2000FG (about 20 years old) in the pile that said "fix AR" and all that was needed on that one was a good AR bearing cleaning and a little lubrication and put it back together and it is good now for years to come... A great little reel. Wish that one was mine! The stradic FG series was the last of the stradics made in Japan. Beginning with the FH series they were all made in Malaysia.

I do have the 1000FG and 2500FG just like this one, but the ones to have are the 2500FG and 4000FG. A kick ass little reel! The one I worked on yesterday was a quick fix and had worked flawlessly for decades and still smooth! Quality.

And it is precisely this quality that commands top dollar prices for these used old stradics too! When new about 20 years ago, these reels sold new for $120. Today in 2017 about 20 years later, even in used condition these reels are still selling on ebay for very close to their brand new selling price!
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Today I worked on an old 1970's era Olympic spinning reel that came into the shop with a request to only repair the broken bail which no longer locked into an open casting position.

Usually a reel of this age would require an entire tear down clean and lube before putting it back together, but believe it or not this 40 year old reel was still working smoothly without maintenance.

Talk about quality! How many reels do you know of that would work for 40 years without maintenance!

I was amazed at the simplicity of the bail lock and release mechanism. It consisted of just 2 parts! Simple is better they say. All that was wrong with this one was a slight misalignment of the parts. That "L" shaped part was slightly bent and no longer a perfect 90 degrees so it was not catching in the bail arm any longer. A simple realignment, some new lubricant and it was as good as new!

(https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi40.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe214%2FCagey1%2FREELS%2FReel%2520Repair%2F0406171231-00_zpssls3yioz.jpg&hash=6b9bf56415ba50db8b6b65bd6b2831d466a51b24)

Something else I was working on today was in making some custom brake collars for a 30 plus year old round baitcast reel. Parts have not been available for this reel for decades so finding the right size brake collar is next to near impossible so making them by hand is about all that can be done.

So I found in a local military surplus store some different materials from which I can experiment on making all new brake collars. Some are plastic, some are teflon, some are similar to what the reel originally had which is a hard plastic or fiber board like material.

I can cut them in different sizes to replicate different weights so I should be able to narrow down to a good usable level of centrifugal braking friction to work in the old reel.

The few remaining original brake collars are shown in the upper right hand corner of this image. No longer available any where... so replicating them by hand from available materials is the only choice.

(https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi40.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe214%2FCagey1%2FREELS%2FReel%2520Repair%2Fb93e8e53-a94a-4137-a4c8-70122c535952_zpsadcdh3sl.jpg&hash=3ccd5f86f33504991041366c4a578f50cd13b719)

Here is the old reel getting the new brake collars. It is an old Browning Citori made in Korea. This reel is almost a direct copy of the Shimano Calcutta and it is kind of funny in that for people who have owned this reel that they like the smoothness and quality of this Browning knockoff better than the original!

(https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi40.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe214%2FCagey1%2FREELS%2FReel%2520Repair%2Fs-l1600%25202_zpsxiiqzgew.jpg&hash=9c424a37c838a90e9e771797865898832a104343)

(https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi40.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe214%2FCagey1%2FREELS%2FReel%2520Repair%2FCTi22%2520-%252002_zpsi7ln84sv.jpg&hash=e50b75718328b2dee726a5449b2066be9583e37e)

What ever happened to Quatums magnetic bail, no springs to break. I like mine.
Rodney

Quote from: Oldfart9999 on April 07, 2017, 06:44:14 AM
What ever happened to Quatums magnetic bail, no springs to break. I like mine.
Rodney

Hello Rodney, I just cover some of the reels that come through the shop and common problems. If those quantums never break then you won't see them here!

You know I gotta envy reel repair techs in places like Minnesota who get reels in that have been fished with in freshwater.

Being located here in Florida our shop gets in a ton of reels that have been used in salt water and are just corroded up bad.

Today I tried to concentrate on getting done all 5 spinning reels brought in by one customer. He has all shimano spinning reels. Nice stradics and sustain reels.

But here is the problem... and please keep in mind this is just a suggestion directed at salt water fishermen mostly because of the salt corrosion problem.

The reels I worked on today were bought new off the shelf and taken right straight out into salt water.

The problem with this is once the reels start corroding a lot of the screws get frozen in place by the corrosion and they are very difficult to take apart.

So as a suggestion, based on what I see over and over, it seems to me to be a good idea to at least take a new reel and do some corrosion prevention before using them in salt water and importantly remove critical screws like the one on the liner roller and coat the threads with grease or some sort of corrosion preventative lubricant anti-seize compound.

New reels are metal on metal and today I had a heck of a time repairing bails that were very difficult to take apart. Once I got the screw out it had white corrosion in every thread from one end of the screw to the other.

A little bit of preventative corrosion prevention will go a long way when it comes time to service the reel down the road.

Another big issue are ball bearings completely rusted and frozen and will not spin. They could use some corrosion prevention as well.

Just a suggestion...

Another Shimano spinning reel issue came up today...

Some shimano spinning reels have a small little "oil port" screw cap usually on the left side of the body.

Does anyone here pour oil into those??? Don't!

I don't really know why Shimano did this. I mean some of the oil people pour into those cause more harm than good. I had a reel today that was stiff and very hard to use. I opened it up and found it full of oil. It had some sort of reaction with the grease in the reel that did not make it better, but turned it into a gummy gooey mess.

The pinion gear and main drive gear are suppose to have a thin coat of grease on them. Pouring oil into the reel at least in this case so diluted some of the grease it ran off the places it was suppose to be.

Point being, if anyone thinks pouring more oil into the reel is needed, it is probably times for a service job.

I own a few reels with these oil ports, but I have never put one drop into any of them.

It is kind of strange because oil is not what manufacturers use to lubricate the inside of a spinning reel. They use grease so why the oil port?

I asked someone in the business... I was told that Shimano knew the consequences of putting an oil port was that if someone actually did it, the reel would then definitely need servicing.

So according to this industry person, it is put there to provide the end user with a possible way to service their own reels with oil using the tempting oil port, but for those who do, it is really there to get that customer to either buy another reel or get theirs serviced. Now keep in mind this is only hearsay, but would a manufacturer do something like this as a form of trickery or what???

Some baitcast reels have a similar port. I have seen something similar on some abu reels. But putting oil into a baitcast reel with internally exposed drag washers is not a good idea.

Adding oil to any of them could lead directly to the failure of the reel, so why do they put these on some reels? It is interesting to consider.

Apparently my phone camera did not focus very well on the drag washers, but hopefully the difference can be seen...

yesterday I ran across another common problem found quite often in spinning reels. People claim to maintain their spinning reels or have them serviced and maintained, but one thing is quite often overlooked and that is the drag washers in the spool.

Just yesterday I worked on a Shimano Symetre 2500FJ that the customer had used in salt water. He said when he brought it in that he had done regular maintenance on the reel, but apparently he never touched the drag washers. Not once. And he had gotten the spool and drag wet with salt water serveral times too.

So one of the last things I check when finishing up servicing a spinning reel is to take out the drag washers and lubricate them. When I opened up this reel's drag washers they were as dry as I have ever seen before. And this reel is fairly new too! Not like it is 10 years old or anything.

So I snapped a photo with my phone camera but it is not quite in focus, but on the left is one of the drag washers after lubrication and on the right is the drag washer as found in the reel dry and not looking too good from the salt water intrusion.

Point of this comment, always check and lubricate your spinning reels drag washers on a regular basis too!

(https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi40.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe214%2FCagey1%2FREELS%2FReel%2520Repair%2F0411171352-00_zpsrh9svhn0.jpg&hash=87c6b1702c3d05cec067a3ddf9f642f681be1552)

Another drag washer issue just came up... teflon drag washers. Got some reels in with oil all over the teflon drag washers.

Make sure to clean these and inside spool back to a dry state. No drag grease or lubrication on teflon drag washers.

Just finished up yet repairing yet another Shimano Stradic CI4+... ugh!

Why is it that as technology advances materials in reels is regressing???

I wonder if the demand for lighter and lighter weight in reels is driving manufacturers into making cheaper and cheaper reels?

Parts that use to be made of steel are now made of aluminum. There is increasing amounts of plastic parts.

But the weight of the reels is coming down as is their durability.

Based on what all I am seeing come across my bench I won't be purchasing any stradics newer than the FI or FJ series. It looks like I am done with the stradic line as far as buying the newer stradics. I will however keep using the older stradics with my favorites being the FG and FH series.

My older stradics are reaching 20 years old and still just as smooth and reliable as when new.

Just finished up a Lew's speed spool baitcast reel MH1SH with graphite frame retails $119.00. Complaint, fix drag only.

First problem found... the uninformed owner spooled power pro directly onto spool and line easily spun around spool. Duh! OK, stripped off line, put on some backing and respooled his power pro line back onto the spool. Still had annoying drag issue that caught and released caught and released.

Taking it apart found customer had tried to repair it himself and only messed it up worse with parts put back in wrong places...

Found cheap blue cardboard drag washer literally glued onto the brass gear and had to be pried off. I did the guy a favor and installed a carbon drag washer rather than reused his not so level cheapo cardboard drag washer. Now it is smooth- completely smooth.

This Lew's reel has a big sticker on it- MADE IN CHINA.

Just "repaired" an Abu Revo RV03-SX-L. Problem- spool frozen in place. Problem? Screw under spool backed out and rubbed on inside of spool grinding a silver groove into the inside of the spool easily seen contrasting against the black anodized spool.

This must of driven him crazy trying to use it when it began rubbing and he used it to the point of grinding it to a halt once the screw had backed out so far it jammed up the spool! Gotta feel for the guy. I wonder how many times he used it while grinding it to a halt???

What a simple fix. Remove spool, tighten screw, install spool. Charge customer.

Oh well, time to go fishing!  ~cf Lock the door boys I'm outta here...

FFF

I love this thread. Thank you.

I'm a spinning reel user. I started with Pflueger reels, but the bail springs kept failing. Then I tried Cabela's Daiwa-made reels, but the bails broke on ALL of them (the bail arms cracked in the same place). To its credit, Cabela's took back all five of them, some of which were a few years old. Now, I use only Shimano reels. I started with a bunch of Saharas and a couple of Symetres, but now have a Saragosa, a Sustain and several Stradics. I've never had any problems with any of them, other than the Symetre bail that broke when I stepped on it. Oops!

Have you serviced any of the new Stradic FKs, yet? I'm asking because you mentioned that you're leery of the newer ones and I'm wondering whether you have any reasons specific to the FK. So far, so good with mine.

I agree with you that there's a point at which price goes up without any real improvement in quality or function. For me, this point has been the Stradic FK. I think that Shimano might have shot itself in the foot with this one, because I don't see any reason to spend more than the $130 I'd spend on a new 2500.

Anyway, thanks, again,

Phil

Here is one to add to the "chronicles". Just finished servicing 8 baitcasters for a customer of mine. Prior to me servicing them, they were serviced by a reputable place. Well lets just say that they were crap jobs where parts were missing because they probably lost them. There were some reels that the drag spring/clicker areas were either in the wrong order, missing, or just crancked down on with something that bent the clicker assembly due to missing washers/spacers. This is why these service places are just a horrible idea. They dont care, just pump them out. This is why they always come and find me. I take my time, I give them back better than new, and fix all the hack jobs other service places do. Thank God I look for beat up reels for cheap to use for parts. Another happy customer who has about 20 other reels he needs me to service/fix. Im gonna have to get on ebay and find some donor reels. Its a good thing he uses generally the same reel platform. Looks like im gonna be busy for a while.

<")))>{

Quote from: PECo on April 22, 2017, 03:52:14 PM
FFF

I love this thread. Thank you.

I'm a spinning reel user. I started with Pflueger reels, but the bail springs kept failing. Then I tried Cabela's Daiwa-made reels, but the bails broke on ALL of them (the bail arms cracked in the same place). To its credit, Cabela's took back all five of them, some of which were a few years old. Now, I use only Shimano reels. I started with a bunch of Saharas and a couple of Symetres, but now have a Saragosa, a Sustain and several Stradics. I've never had any problems with any of them, other than the Symetre bail that broke when I stepped on it. Oops!

Have you serviced any of the new Stradic FKs, yet? I'm asking because you mentioned that you're leery of the newer ones and I'm wondering whether you have any reasons specific to the FK. So far, so good with mine.

I agree with you that there's a point at which price goes up without any real improvement in quality or function. For me, this point has been the Stradic FK. I think that Shimano might have shot itself in the foot with this one, because I don't see any reason to spend more than the $130 I'd spend on a new 2500.

Anyway, thanks, again,

Phil

Thanks Phil. Sorry I did not get back to you sooner as I missed seeing this comment until now.

Yes we are seeing a few of the new K models come in. I have to get some specialized training from Shimano on them too as I am learning that for the first time in the new K models there is one particular part inside those reels that the human hand is not allowed to touch.

This reel is relatively too new to see any long term problems, but the one we have in right now has a worm gear problem and the spool has too much play in it. We are waiting on the Shimano rep to come by and give us the training on it and other things...

But beside that worm gear issue the reel was super smooth. Shimano is really working on making reels smoother and they are succeeding.

But again, we are seeing issues with materials used to make reels. The technology is improving but the manufacturers are using cheaper materials and a lot more plastic.

Part of this problem are all those end users demanding lighter weight reels. Some don't seem to get that reducing weight means reducing materials quality. Simple as that.

The demand for lighter reels is compelling reel manufacturers to look for ways to reduce weight. For example, in the past reel manufacturers almost always made worm gears out of good quality steel and they lasted almost forever. Now we see those same worm gears made out of aluminum and they now wear down and wear out faster because of a cheaper weaker material is being used. No way around this issue that I can see.

Brass gears are now being made out of aluminum... and the list goes on... metal parts now being made out of plastic and even ceramics.

So you know, this is kind of why I am avoiding the newer stradics. They even changed the drag mech and reduced the size of the drag washers in the newer models. I have to check those every time a reel comes into the shop and  we look at the amount of fuzz worn off the drag washers and it is my opinion the newer type is wearing faster than the older type. I have stradic reels that are 20 years old with less fuzz collecting in the side channels of the spool than I see in newer reels only a year or two old now have as much fuzz worn off the drag washers collecting up.

This means to me with less surface area to use for friction, the reduced area is being used to a higher degree causing more wear on the drag washers.

So I think I will keep my FG and FH stradics working for as long as I can... and I am not alone. Just yesterday and today I have been working on FG and FH stradics for customers who want to keep their old reels going as well.

We have been getting a boat load of Daiwa reels in lately. Here is a zillion that just came in with a failed level wind line guide... will probably get inside this one in a few days unless another tech gets it.

On the bench right now is yet another Daiwa. This one is a real cheapo model made in China of virtually all plastic. Even the frame is plastic.

And the owner of this reel does not want to pay for a full clean and lube, so he specifically requested us to just fix the problem... once the cast thumb bar is pressed, turning the handle will not re-engage the reel...

And judging from the loose handle and missing parts, it looks like the customer got into this reel himself and brought it into our shop in this condition...

I got this one at the end of the day, disassembled it, and said to heck with it for now... I am taking the boat and the boys and hitting the Winter Park chain of lakes today for some fun in the sun! We hit all six lakes too! And the island... lots of fun. And tomorrow after a cup of strong coffee then back into this cheap chinese Daiwa reel...

After taking off the side plate... take a look at all that rust! Gee, I guess even Daiwa reels have bearings that rust! Imagine that! No wonder the handle makes a grinding noise when turned... but hey, the customer said just fix the engage problem... yeah right. He knows it is a cheapo reel and does not want to spend more money on fixing this one than it is worth. Can't say as I blame him. So it looks like a little rust clean up is in order... but the engage problem is under this problem... definitely going to need a big cup of coffee first.

Now we are getting to the heart of this reel's terminal failure... And, technically it is not actually broken. It just does not work as it was engineered to work. I wonder why... Is it an engineering issue? Or, is it a construction issue??? Or, is it a materials issue. Could be all 3.

This reel worked fine for awhile, but now it does not because that trip lever will not swing into the trip gear that is underneath the drive gear. The spring looks fine. The lever looks fine. Even the hole in the clutch plate looks fine.

But there is wear. And that is causing this trip lever to turn at a slight angle binding it up. Well parts for this reel are no longer available... so it is going to take some tinkering with to see if it can be salvaged at all. But with each cast the owner makes, he will be wearing down the plastic more and more until the reel can not be salvaged unless brand new parts can be found and installed...

So with a hot cup of coffee and a few tricks, this reel might work again for awhile. But what we have here is really a not so hot design to begin with. The post on this trip lever only gets a 1/16" of an inch of plastic to keep it vertical. It is simply not enough.

In this same spot in most Shimano reels is 2 to 3 times the thickness of plastic the trip lever post inserts into the clutch plate. I have never had this problem with a Shimano reel.

But, what is actually happening inside this reel to cause this failure is due to years of use and wear on that hole the trip lever is inserted into, when new it stood straight up off the frame. Due to the wear inside the plastic hole, the trip lever is now leaning over- pushed over by the spring trying to push the lever into place, but now that it is leaning over, do you see that little raised lip on the underside of the trip lever??? The point is now able to catch the frame and hang up the trip lever in mid swing. It just stops just out of reach of the trip gear.

So tomorrow morning I will do one of two things... one is to shave down a little bit of the frame where the point of the raised trip lever is hanging up on. Since it is plastic it will be easy to trim down with a sharp razor knife. And if I have to, I could put the trip lever on a grinder and remove some of the point of that raised lip on it. Either way, I gotta make clearance so the trip lever can make its full swing and not hang up because it is now leaning over slightly. There is nothing I can really do to make that lever stand straight up again unless I can get a brand new clutch plate for this reel.

That should solve the problem for this reel until it wears down more past the point of no return. Then it will be time to throw this one away and go buy another reel.

These cheap chinese reels really are not worth putting money into them...

One of our customers recently had us clean and lube his cheapo Lew's reel that sold for like $40.00 on a combo setup. The reel was not worth repairing but he spent more to fix it than it was worth. But hey, it keeps the lights on...

My fastest reel repair today was an Abu 5600AB I think was the model. Complaint was it did not engage or trip once the cast button was pushed. I found the spool axle frozen/locked into the pinion gear. Took 30 seconds to get it out, polished the axle, and polished inside of pinion gear, put a drop of oil on it and out the door in less than 10 minutes...

Another one I actually got in trouble for doing because it had just come through the door. An old Penn spinning reel 4500SS. The AR did not work. It took only a few minutes to get it fixed and our counter lady called the customer to come get it. He said but I just left it there not 23 minutes ago. He said he had not even gotten back home yet. He was kind of miffed not at how fast it got fixed, but because he said he could of stayed at the shop and waited on it to be fixed. Sorry bud! My boss said didn't you look at the date on the ticket? Nope. I didn't. I just knew it was  a quick fix and easy money so I got it done and fast too. So now I am getting in trouble for being too fast. Oh well... must be the caffeine.

It is no secret I am not a fan of Daiwa baitcast reels and the reason is simple... I see a lot of them come across my workbench and I just don't care for how they feel or operate and break. And in the next few posts some of this will be crystal clear.

This first reel is not a particularly expensive reel at all so I guess the problem it developed is to be expected from a manufacturer trying to cut corner and cut production costs by making some internal parts really cheap. And that is what let this next reel down.

The problem it came in with was a simple one- when the owner pushed the cast button down it would cast fine, but when he went to turn the handle to begin his retrieve all the reel did was click, click, click, click. It would not disengage from the cast position.

The problem was that Daiwa made a really cheap clutch pawl. They made it out of pot metal and cast the part. But the anti-reverse ratchet gear was made out of real steel. So Daiwa put a soft metal into constant use contact with real steel. In other words, it was DESIGNED to wear out and it did.

(https://s26.postimg.org/597hz23s9/IMG_20170921_105804.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/3wueawvqh/IMG_20170921_105815.jpg)

Look what I found when I opened it up. This is exactly how I found it. One spring inside in the wrong place, a washer stuck to the side plate and the second spring was simply not there. Conclusion is that the owner of this reel attempted to fix it himself. So he caused more problems than he solved. Now his parts list was growing along with the repair price.

Another thing I notice in this reel is the addition of a steel bearing next to the AR bearing. My Shimano reels don't do this because it is simply not necessary. Daiwa has added an extra bearing, extra weight, and it really does nothing to improve anything with this reel. Daiwa could eliminate this bearing the same as shimano has and no one would miss it. But here it is anyway...

(https://s26.postimg.org/vmqzbukkp/IMG_20170921_111153.jpg)

In the next image I show the drag washer stack taken apart as I found it. This image was taken showing the drag washer inside the gear was stuck to the gear as if glued on, and the same for the fiberglass washer on the ratchet gear. Stuck on like it was glued on. This mean the drag of this reel was only operating on 50% of the drag washer surface area. Only one side of each washer was functioning because the other side was frozen in place. And, there is reel grease all over the place, not drag grease. Problematic to say the least.

I had to use a razor blade to carefully separate the drag washers from the metal parts. These are some really cheap drag washers. If it were my reel I would replace them with something better, but for me this is a reel I would never own.

(https://s26.postimg.org/yfk6vvkx5/IMG_20170921_112657.jpg)

And now for the failure of this reel. On the left you can see the notched worn original part made of some really cheap pot metal. The ratchet gear wore it out. On the right is the brand new part about to be installed.

I have never seen in more than 30 years of working on reels this happen to any of my shimano reels or those I serviced over the years. Because Daiwa made one part out of cheap metal they built into one of their reels a part designed to fail and it did.

(https://s26.postimg.org/q4ydo1pd5/IMG_20170921_113432.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/lhnq8jcmh/IMG_20170920_114729.jpg)

Ah yes, here is one for the record books. A broken reel with no broken parts! Imagine that! And a Daiwa zillion at that! How would you like for your 65 pound plus braid to wind up looking like this one did on a nearly $300 reel:

(https://s26.postimg.org/5koybtk89/IMG_20170920_114747.jpg)

Problem: Line guide failure.

Again, no broken parts. So what in the world could be the problem? Well, this narrows it down to:

1)Abuse
2)Engineering
3)Materials
4)Tolerance issues from manufacturing and/or wear
5)Combination of the above.

The answer for this spectacular $280.00 reel failure was indeed a combination of all the above. It was in part a failure of the TWS "system" along with some user abuse and some age/wear tolerance issue that all resulted in a completely jammed line guide. And the key has a lot to do with the design of the TWS system along with how the user used or abused this reel.

Myself and a senior reel tech both examined and went over the issue with this reel and once taken apart and put back together it worked. None of the parts were damaged or worn enough to require replacement.

We both think user timing with use combined with the operation of the TWS system mechanism resulted in the severe jam it was forced into.

I guess I can add this one to my list of reels I shall avoid... as I would not want my reel jamming up on me when I set the hook on a big bass!

But do keep in mind, this particular problem was a first. Neither myself nor the senior reel tech had ever seen this problem before so it is a rare occurrence. A spectacular failure of the TWS system under extreme use/abuse.

But I will say this... it did not break, it just stopped working.

This past weekend I did some traveling around Florida making my rounds in some pawn shops and thrift stores looking for some great deals on some equipment to flip for a profit when I came across an unusual looking reel. At first I thought it must be a Daiwa  :-\ (kidding) but upon closer inspection I saw that it was a Johnson and the perfect reel for some thrift store display case in someone's living room!  ~roflmao

And no, I did not even think about buying it not for one second. Well for one I don't have a thrift store display case in my living room!  ~b~ And for 2 I actually catch fish with my reels!  :-*

But you know, if they had made this top of the line model in a lefty I might have considered it!  :o

(https://s26.postimg.org/swvfjvs15/IMG_20170923_130939.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/8lo6bbp2h/IMG_20170923_130957.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/uan2f6rah/IMG_20170923_131001.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/shk5qv63t/IMG_20170923_131030.jpg)

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on September 24, 2017, 07:56:27 PM
It is no secret I am not a fan of Daiwa baitcast reels and the reason is simple... I see a lot of them come across my workbench and I just don't care for how they feel or operate and break. And in the next few posts some of this will be crystal clear.

This first reel is not a particularly expensive reel at all so I guess the problem it developed is to be expected from a manufacturer trying to cut corner and cut production costs by making some internal parts really cheap. And that is what let this next reel down.

The problem it came in with was a simple one- when the owner pushed the cast button down it would cast fine, but when he went to turn the handle to begin his retrieve all the reel did was click, click, click, click. It would not disengage from the cast position.

The problem was that Daiwa made a really cheap clutch pawl. They made it out of pot metal and cast the part. But the anti-reverse ratchet gear was made out of real steel. So Daiwa put a soft metal into constant use contact with real steel. In other words, it was DESIGNED to wear out and it did.

(https://s26.postimg.org/597hz23s9/IMG_20170921_105804.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/3wueawvqh/IMG_20170921_105815.jpg)

Look what I found when I opened it up. This is exactly how I found it. One spring inside in the wrong place, a washer stuck to the side plate and the second spring was simply not there. Conclusion is that the owner of this reel attempted to fix it himself. So he caused more problems than he solved. Now his parts list was growing along with the repair price.

Another thing I notice in this reel is the addition of a steel bearing next to the AR bearing. My Shimano reels don't do this because it is simply not necessary. Daiwa has added an extra bearing, extra weight, and it really does nothing to improve anything with this reel. Daiwa could eliminate this bearing the same as shimano has and no one would miss it. But here it is anyway...

(https://s26.postimg.org/vmqzbukkp/IMG_20170921_111153.jpg)

In the next image I show the drag washer stack taken apart as I found it. This image was taken showing the drag washer inside the gear was stuck to the gear as if glued on, and the same for the fiberglass washer on the ratchet gear. Stuck on like it was glued on. This mean the drag of this reel was only operating on 50% of the drag washer surface area. Only one side of each washer was functioning because the other side was frozen in place. And, there is reel grease all over the place, not drag grease. Problematic to say the least.

I had to use a razor blade to carefully separate the drag washers from the metal parts. These are some really cheap drag washers. If it were my reel I would replace them with something better, but for me this is a reel I would never own.

(https://s26.postimg.org/yfk6vvkx5/IMG_20170921_112657.jpg)

And now for the failure of this reel. On the left you can see the notched worn original part made of some really cheap pot metal. The ratchet gear wore it out. On the right is the brand new part about to be installed.

I have never seen in more than 30 years of working on reels this happen to any of my shimano reels or those I serviced over the years. Because Daiwa made one part out of cheap metal they built into one of their reels a part designed to fail and it did.

(https://s26.postimg.org/q4ydo1pd5/IMG_20170921_113432.jpg)

That reel is not made by Daiwa.

<")))>{

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on September 24, 2017, 08:10:11 PM
(https://s26.postimg.org/lhnq8jcmh/IMG_20170920_114729.jpg)

Ah yes, here is one for the record books. A broken reel with no broken parts! Imagine that! And a Daiwa zillion at that! How would you like for your 65 pound plus braid to wind up looking like this one did on a nearly $300 reel:

(https://s26.postimg.org/5koybtk89/IMG_20170920_114747.jpg)

Problem: Line guide failure.

Again, no broken parts. So what in the world could be the problem? Well, this narrows it down to:

1)Abuse
2)Engineering
3)Materials
4)Tolerance issues from manufacturing and/or wear
5)Combination of the above.

The answer for this spectacular $280.00 reel failure was indeed a combination of all the above. It was in part a failure of the TWS "system" along with some user abuse and some age/wear tolerance issue that all resulted in a completely jammed line guide. And the key has a lot to do with the design of the TWS system along with how the user used or abused this reel.

Myself and a senior reel tech both examined and went over the issue with this reel and once taken apart and put back together it worked. None of the parts were damaged or worn enough to require replacement.

We both think user timing with use combined with the operation of the TWS system mechanism resulted in the severe jam it was forced into.

I guess I can add this one to my list of reels I shall avoid... as I would not want my reel jamming up on me when I set the hook on a big bass!

But do keep in mind, this particular problem was a first. Neither myself nor the senior reel tech had ever seen this problem before so it is a rare occurrence. A spectacular failure of the TWS system under extreme use/abuse.

But I will say this... it did not break, it just stopped working.

In what way did it staop working in particular that it ended up with a birds nest in that you state the reel would jam up on you setting the hook?

<")))>{

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on September 24, 2017, 09:13:05 PM

In what way did it staop working in particular that it ended up with a birds nest in that you state the reel would jam up on you setting the hook?

The line guide pawl jammed up sideways.

The only thing that puts any side pressure on the line guide itself is the line. Now what conditions exist that put that much side pressure on a line guide? Some serious yanking. And at the wrong time when the pawl was in a worm gear crossover X crossing. Bam! Sideways and jammed up. And there was another complicating TWS factor in how it moves the line guide at certain times. It all added up for one big time jam up when the user needed it to work for him.

(https://s26.postimg.org/3wueawvqh/IMG_20170921_105815.jpg)

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on September 24, 2017, 09:11:48 PM
That reel is not made by Daiwa.

OK. I'll take your word for it. Whoever made it. I still would not own one even if it is only engineered by Daiwa.

The TWS fault was more than likely cause by user abuse, not failure of the reel. There is no way a pawl will fold sideways on its own. Either the cap was backing out, or the person was really yanking at a bad angle to free a snag while holding their thumb on the spool.

<")))>{

The pawl did not fold. It turned out of position and no longer tracked in the worm gear.

No parts were replaced. They were repositioned and it worked again.

This zillion reel had a malfunction due in part to design.

And the pawl cover cap was on tight.

The TWS system failed in part due to design which allowed the failure brought on by the user asking it to do more than it could handle.

That Zillion looks like it was over spooled.

Quote from: Bassinlou on September 25, 2017, 10:12:06 AM
That Zillion looks like it was over spooled.

I agree the bird's nest as it came in did look that way, but once the line was untangled and respooled nice and tight it was below the rim of the spool.

Generally speaking if a spool is overfilled they are impossible to remove from the reel until some line is removed. This spool came right out once respooled nice and tight. But with a jammed up line guide the owner could only retrieve a growing bird's nest...

FFF,with what you know,what is a reliable modern reel for $100 budget? I was looking at a Daiwa Tatula,but I do not like the idea on pot metal parts working steel parts. Thanks!

Shimano Citica. Or, for $125 on ebay you can pick up a Shimano Curado i usually with free shipping.

FFF,thank you,the Shimano Citica is my runner up choice. I guess I will research the citica and see how it's built. :)

The Citica is basically just a less expensive Curado. They are about the same give or take a bearing or 2 and a couple of other parts difference. Both have aluminum frames. I just sold a Citica i used for $75.00 and threw in a couple of ceramic hybrid bearings for the spool. And I just promised a guy a Curado 201i for $100 used with a couple of ceramic bearings. So the deals are out there.

Here are the schematics for both reels:

Citica 200i:

http://dunphysports.com/forms/warranty/schematic/CI200I.pdf (http://dunphysports.com/forms/warranty/schematic/CI200I.pdf)

Curado 200i:

http://dunphysports.com/forms/warranty/schematic/CU200I.pdf (http://dunphysports.com/forms/warranty/schematic/CU200I.pdf)

Thanks again FFF, I'll look over the schematics. So far have not found a place where they have a good deal on the citicas.Looking through the site sponsors now..

americanlegacyfishing has the curado 200i for 119.

Thanks Rick found it there. :) Tatulas are easy to get from ebay,the shimanos are proving more difficult/expensive.

Here is one for the cheesy display case!  ~roflmao This piece of junk is sitting on the bench waiting on someone- anyone- willing to work on it. I avoided this one all day yesterday skipping around it for Calcutta's and Curado's and stradics needing only a clean and lube job and absolutely zero repairs... and some of those reels are between 20 to 30 years old. But today someone is going to have to put this one back together.

A vintage 1986 bottom of the line Shimano Bantam B-100 Mag. Today this reel can be purchased off ebay in working condition for as low as $5.00. So why would anyone actually pay $30 for a clean and lube on a reel like this one??? Ugh. I may skip work today and just go fishing instead!

(https://s26.postimg.org/5nsehli95/IMG_20170928_160000.jpg)

Probably becuase someone really likes the reel, and expects you guys to do your jobs.  ~shade

My guess is probably sentimental value, if it truly is a reel you can get for 5 bucks.

Someone should probably get to work on that.

Here are two of them on ebay right now- both of them can be yours for $30.00 with free shipping!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-2-Shimano-B100Mag-Lo-Pro-Bass-Casting-Reels-Walleye-/232497633112?hash=item3621f05758:g:BuUAAOSwg6pZbNrT

The customer could have two working reels for what this one is costing to overhaul.

This is probably the perfect thread for people to see as to why they shouldnt use your reel repair facitlity.  lo

We see thousands of reels every year. You don't.

We don't fix reels on our dining room table.

Yeah, shops like yours are what keep me busy with modding and servicing reels. All the crap goes to you, while I get to pick and choose what to work on that makes me some extra coin. Ill stick to fixing them on my "dining room table".  lo

All the crap goes to us? Hardly. The money maker reels cost thousands. Heck, just to put line on some of them costs hundreds. 99.9999999999999999% of our customers are not on this forum or even know it exists since most of them are saltwater guys.

Most of the big dollar reels we work on here you will never see because they are too big for your dining room table.

OK. Good luck to ya.  lo

Fishing fool, Any business that chooses to treat their customers and their property with complete disdain is a sad state of affairs.  Although the reel might not mean anything to you it may mean a whole lot to the customer and it is not your place to pass judgement on their property.  If I want one of my old treasures refurbished or repaired it is my decision about how much I am willing to pay for that service.  I would think you would have a solid triage process that could inform the customer that the product is beyond repair and allow them to make the decision rather than tossing it around the shop just because you might think you are too good for them.  If your company does not want this kind of business then they should state that clearly and communicate it to the customer and let them decide on proper next steps.

~rant ^-^ ~bu

I don't speak for the shop Bud, just me. I am just not in the mood for it right now is all. And it is my choice.

And often we can not determine if something is beyond repair at the front counter. That is often only determined once on the bench and a tech is in it.

And LMG is right about one thing, we do see a lot of crap since most of the reels are used in saltwater they are so eaten up with corrosion they are very difficult to work on. Quite often so corroded they break when trying to take them apart.

The bottom line is, and I have seen this most of my adult life working in the service end of things from sound systems to neon signs to reels, rods, whatever and especially electronics equipment I use to service... we are expected to fix it and most want it done for free or as cheaply as possible.

And if this does not create some cynicism I don't know what will.

My cynicism is well earned.

And so today... I have decided to hit the "quick fixes" only and then hit the road out of town for some RnR.

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on September 29, 2017, 10:19:53 AM
This is probably the perfect thread for people to see as to why they shouldnt use your reel repair facitlity.  lo

I am personally glad you are the one that repairs and maintains my reels. I would hate to take it to some shop like the one FFF is describing.

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on September 29, 2017, 10:37:40 AM
All the crap goes to us? Hardly. The money maker reels cost thousands. Heck, just to put line on some of them costs hundreds. 99.9999999999999999% of our customers are not on this forum or even know it exists since most of them are saltwater guys.

This reel is being handed over to the salaried part owner to do. I gotta stay focused on money makers for me and for the shop. Just the way it is...

Be glad that 99.9999999% of your customers aren't on this forum or you'd be losing customers left and right in my opinion.

Well at least we don't make a blanket statement that we do not work on any spinning reels like some do! I guess they deserve to lose business too!

I should be entitled to the honesty of my well developed opinion. With all the years it took to earn it I own it.

I just worked on a Okuma spinning reel. It is made of cheap chinese plastic junk- an IA 45. And the failure of the reel was due to the cheap chinese plastic junk it was made from that snapped in half rendering the entire reel worthless from one small plastic piece breaking. Its junk. And yes we will fix it and I just ordered the parts, but you know I call a spade a spade.

Can't blame me for what it is or why it failed. And if I choose to call it junk then I should be able to make that determination if I so choose. It is really not a big deal at all.

This thread is serving a purpose of showing what reels are made like, the good and the bad, and already helping some to choose better quality for their money.

So in that sense it is a good thing. I don't want to spend my money on junk, does anyone else?

So let me call junk junk when it is junk!  :o

FFF, your fully entitled to your opinion and you should be proud of your work but I'm not so sure your doing your company any favors in their customer service deptartment.

I do agree that this thread could be very beneficial but when you see such obvious bias its hard to take that persons word as gospel. Theres good and bad in every manufacture and when you blanket statement all of a particular brand as junk, well...........

 ~fl

Quote from: cojab on September 29, 2017, 02:04:52 PM
FFF, your fully entitled to your opinion and you should be proud of your work but I'm not so sure your doing your company any favors in their customer service deptartment.

I do agree that this thread could be very beneficial but when you see such obvious bias its hard to take that persons word as gospel. Theres good and bad in every manufacture and when you blanket statement all of a particular brand as junk, well...........

X2

Quote from: cojab on September 29, 2017, 02:04:52 PM
FFF, your fully entitled to your opinion and you should be proud of your work but I'm not so sure your doing your company any favors in their customer service deptartment.

Interesting you should say that because I don't deal with any customers. I am only paid to pick things up and put them together. That's it. I don't answer the phone and I do not deal with customers at the front counter. We are not paid for any of that so the reel techs avoid all that.

There is a backroom where most of the work takes place and there are several of us who stay back there and do one monotonous job over and over and over. And we do it well or we would not be doing it. It can be a boring repetitious and tedious job at times.

And I go out of my way to make sure the reels I work on are in tip top shape. My reels don't come back. I will do things to a reel other techs might let slide.

And I don't think I label all of one brand as bad because of one bad reel. I try and be specific to the reel being shown like this one:

Problem: broken bail just flops around.

(https://s26.postimg.org/myq7j55ex/IMG_20170929_133735_1.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/7fsrm0x49/IMG_20170929_133748_1.jpg)

The above is an Okuma IA-45, another reel I would not  spend two cents on to buy to own and use nor, to repair. It is simply not worth it to me- but that is just me. If someone wants to pay big bucks to fix something cheap that is AOK too- its their money. But for me the reels are impersonal inanimate objects and I never see or know the customers. We have to crank out a lot of reels especially during high demand fishing season.

Another thing is that once reels are put back together we pass them around to other techs to examine as a quality control measure. So before a reel is judged as finished at least 3 or more people are examining it and making their own determinations as to whether or not the reel is ready to be passed on to the front office for return to customers or whether or not it needs more work. We rely on each other for this so that everyone is satisfied with the quality of work going out.

Shown in the image is a broken bail spring cover. A small tab that snaps into the rotor broke off and this allowed the bottom of it to separate from the rotor and you can see how bent and damaged the spring is.

It does not take much of a hit on this rotor to render this reel completely useless. Just think, that small tiny little speck of plastic that broke off of this bail spring cover is all it takes to completely destroy this reel.

This is a design flaw and materials flaw. All Okuma had to do here was to either increase the tab size and strength and rather than a snap in, it could have been an insert tab, or they could have used a screw like most other companies do.

So we have here another cheaply made reel failing for something any engineering student could have done better.

Point being... put your money on higher quality engineering and higher quality materials. Avoid the Okuma IA-45 or this failure could very well be coming...  I would judge this one as cheap plastic junk with 10 ball bearings! Whoopie.

Just found this on aliexpress for the Okuma IA-45:

We are okuma agent in China. that is why we could provide very reasonable price for all buyer from all of the world. we will provide much lower price for big order quantities.

OKUMA Inspira IA-45 Palm Size Spinning Reel Free Spool IA-45
BRAND NEW -- IN THE ORIGINAL BOX!

Can be yours for only $87.37 per piece!


Inspira Features   
- Multi-disk Japanese oiled felt drag washers
- 9 stainless steel HPB ball bearings
- 1 Quick-Set Anti-Reverse roller bearing
- Precision machine cut brass pinion gear
- ALC : Rigid diecast aluminum frame
- Patented Elliptical Oscillation System
- Spare matching aluminum and ported spool
- Rigid forged aluminum handle design
- Hydro Block water tight drag seal


They forgot the part about the el cheapo plastic bail spring cover that breaks easily destroying entire reel!

Now let's see if Okuma will even have the parts we need to fix this reel. We have had trouble getting parts from them in the past so who knows...

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on September 29, 2017, 06:29:24 PM
Interesting you should say that because I don't deal with any customers. I am only paid to pick things up and put them together.

~b~

Sounds like you have everything well under control. Carry on sir.

Quote from: cojab on September 29, 2017, 07:00:36 PM
~b~

Sounds like you have everything well under control. Carry on sir.

I pick things up. I put things down. I stole it from the classic old commercial.

You know, it is what it is...

Guess I am not the Kum Bah Ya type.  ;D

I think you all should pick up pellet pistols, stand back to back, step off ten paces and fire.
Rodney

Quote from: Oldfart9999 on September 30, 2017, 09:15:59 AM
I think you all should pick up pellet pistols, stand back to back, step off ten paces and fire.
Rodney

Your absolutely right OF.
I really need to learn to leave well enough alone. :surrender:



But........I am a pretty good pistol shot! ;)

Me too!

I got a PM this afternoon saying that I write about the reels that fail all the time but don't mention those that seem to work forever.

He also asked if there were any Daiwa reels that I do like. And there is one.

It is a 2000/2001 Team Daiwa spinning reel model 3500CU.

This spinning reel is built like a tank and is presently the only Daiwa reel I use on a regular basis. I can honestly say this is one awesome spinning reel. I bought mine used in a pawn shop on a rod for under $20.00 in near mint condition. I overhauled it several years ago and upgraded the drag washers and may have added a ball bearing or two and it is still running strong and smooth to this day.

And I have to say I love this reel every bit as much as I do my Shimano stradics and sustain reels.

So if you can find one of these old Team Daiwa reels and can overhaul it yourself, then this is the one to have... extremely reliable and a work of art too!

(https://s26.postimg.org/yba7ag9m1/daiwa_1.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/b8joba84p/daiwa_2.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/ehy3hqw89/daiwa_3.jpg)

In the following schematic for this reel, one thing to notice is that the pinion gear is supported by not one, not two, but three ball bearings! In the front is bearing #34, and in the middle is the AR needle bearing #38, and in the rear is bearing #41.

This type of bearing support for the rotor provides an extremely stable rotation without wobble. And, the front and rear bearing prevent any angular wear on the AR bearing that translates into a reel that lasts longer without significant wear or noticeable loosening of the rotor.

Another nice feature of this reel is the oscillation worm gear. This is the same type as found in some of Shimano's high end reels.

Daiwa built a very nice and smooth reel here as well as extremely reliable over many years...

(https://s26.postimg.org/ifpykw8fd/daiwa_4.jpg)

Hmmmm... I am guessing I am the only member here with one of these Team Daiwa 3500CU reels??? I took mine out today and was amazed at how smooth and effortless it was to use. Daiwa hit a home run with this one!

Today I got a Quantum KVD signature series reel on the bench. It cranked OK, but I could not push down the cast button. It was stuck. So I began taking it apart and I found that the pinion bearing had rusted up and the pinion gear itself was literally glued to the bearing and stuck in place in it.

And apparently due to the design of this reel, it is a common problem since I found a second reel in our pile of junk reels with the exact same problem...

(https://s26.postimg.org/n4ywcnkq1/IMG_20171004_150602.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/uyzhy1six/IMG_20171004_151219.jpg)

Well, upon opening it up and finding it with the pinion stuck in the bearing, I had to remove the bearing retainer clip and you know at my age I have to wear magnifying glasses to see things close up, so I guess I did not have my finger on the clip very good when I popped out the second side of it and it sprung out of the reel to where I have no idea. So I had to go dig around in the old junk reel boxes in the backroom to find a similar Quantum reel from which I could take the bearing clip from it to replace the one I had just lost.

And what did I find? I found another exact same reel, but not a KVD signature reel, with the exact same problem of the pinion gear frozen in place inside the pinion bearing rusted really badly...

(https://s26.postimg.org/6wio36bvt/IMG_20171004_152856.jpg)

Just look at that rusty old bearing in there! That is the problem...

(https://s26.postimg.org/f3anur1yh/IMG_20171004_153136.jpg)

You can see where I slightly sanded down the pinion gear on the left to give it more clearance to slide in and out of the pinion gear bearing with each cast. This is a place where you do not want it to hang up at all. And add a little grease here when putting it back together.

(https://s26.postimg.org/579kv3w6h/IMG_20171004_153434.jpg)

So the quick fix for this one was to free up the pinion gear, sand it down just little bit where it is suppose to slide in and out of the pinion bearing to give it a little bit of space so it could slide in and out easily with each cast. And I replaced the pinion bearing and put it back together and it worked like new again.

I almost considered replacing the drag star from an older Quantum reel made of metal to replace the cheap plastic drag star on the KVD signature reel I was working on, but didn't. That is a junk reel behind the red KVD reel I was working on...

(https://s26.postimg.org/k5rzpjb8p/IMG_20171004_155012.jpg)

Here is another quick fix I got into today that turned into a complete tear down and rebuild simply because the person who owns this reels thought he was qualified to do it himself at home and well he failed big time so let's take a look at how...

Shimano Sienna 2500FD spinning reel.

First of all, the problem I saw written on the ticket said AR failed so fix it. OK. Let's take a look and see... and upon removing the rotor I noticed three problems right off...

1)The AR bearing was not seated down on the reel correctly. I noticed one side was raised up.
2)I saw rust.
3)I saw the inner race of the AR bearing was upside down the AR would not work if the thin side was in the needle bearings. The thick side has to be up inside the needle bearing to work.

(https://s26.postimg.org/juajcrusp/IMG_20171004_161843.jpg)

Taking a closer look at the AR bearing itself, this is what I saw- np AR switch slot visible! Not right. Someone has been in this reel messing it up!

(https://s26.postimg.org/vxkge2v8p/IMG_20171004_162023.jpg)

Now here it is side by side with another Shimano AR bearing, though larger, the AR switch selector slot is clearly visible on the larger AR bearing but not visible on the smaller AR bearing.

(https://s26.postimg.org/dj9xa3iy1/IMG_20171004_162053.jpg)

Conclusion: reel owner has been inside of this reel, disassembled this AR bearing and put it back together incorrectly.

And now here I am tearing the AR bearing completely apart and finding rusty needle bearings, but not bad enough to have to replace. So I sanded them all clean and removed the rust before putting it back together correctly.

***Notice the springs in this AR bearing? Notice how they are in the bearing because they have to be put back exactly as shown...

(https://s26.postimg.org/4008gmvft/IMG_20171004_162232.jpg)

And now that I am all the way into the AR bearing, this is how I found it. The lower black bearing support was reinstalled by the owner of this reel 180 degree backwards with the switch slot on the other side of the AR bearing where it could not possibly work.

***And don't lose any of those springs or else! And make sure you put them back in the correct order and polarity too!

(https://s26.postimg.org/7xni61i95/IMG_20171004_162516.jpg)

And now here it is turned around correctly so the switch slot is now on the same side as the opening in the AR bearing housing so now I can begin to reassemble the AR bearing...

(https://s26.postimg.org/6wn9gx19l/IMG_20171004_162528.jpg)

Now you can see the AR on/off switch slot is where it should be:

(https://s26.postimg.org/9f8yhlmzt/IMG_20171004_162713.jpg)

Ah yes, now here we have a correctly reassembled AR bearing ready for reinstallation into the reel.

(https://s26.postimg.org/jqlba9ep5/IMG_20171004_163657.jpg)

Case closed. Well, almost... with this particular reel I am now going to reveal a secret even the owner of this reel did not know... Shimano now requires the drive gear and oscillation gear to be aligned before closing up the reel. Each gear has a triangle shaped arrow on it which is needed to align one gear with the other or else the reel will not operate smoothly.

So here is a link to the schematic of this reel which shows very clearly in the box how to align the gears before closing up this reel. Learn this shimano secret or stay out of your shimano spinning reels!

http://dunphysports.com/forms/warranty/schematic/SN2500FD.pdf (http://dunphysports.com/forms/warranty/schematic/SN2500FD.pdf)

And leave the AR bearings alone! No one needs to tear them apart! Most are cleaned and lubed without taking them apart! Learn the secrets before destroying a reel! But hey, it keeps us in business!

Problems like this are just too dam easy.

Not disappointed. Started reading from the top, and in five minutes I was learning about worn out titties!

Quote from: SteelHorseCowboy on October 04, 2017, 09:41:26 PM
Not disappointed. Started reading from the top, and in five minutes I was learning about worn out titties!

~xyz Hate those worn out titties! Chewed up to the max! Gotta trade 'em in for a new pair! Some perks that are NASA approved no doubt! Missles! Pointed to the sky and beyond! Careful there or they might poke your eyes out!  :shocking:

Probably the best post I'll read all week!

Now, I'm leaning towards a Curado or Tatula as my next reel. One thing I know I want for sure is a stronger frame. I'm pretty sure that's what lead to the death of my Black Max.
But then I see the plastic worm gear and pawls. Yeah, I think I'd prefer metal. Even aluminum rather than plastic.
It'll never see saltwater.

Not sure which model or sub model is right for me.

You know, like a good pair of "perkies" try them both! Try a Curado K and a Daiwa whatever... people gravitate to what feels right for them.

One day try yourself a Shimano DC. Nothing out there like it. Kind of cool having an electronic brain figure out anti-backlash braking for you rather than leaving it up to centrifugal force and rpm's. DC reels are bad to the bone! Sure beats a worn out pair! Well, you know what I mean!  ;D

Lol, maybe I should mention my budget will be <$200.
Which also precludes trying them both.

Then you have a dilemma! Which to choose? I won't try and influence you one way or another. Reel preference is something each person has to decide for their self. But do let us know which way you go...

And to those who service their Shimano spinning reels at home,  on some spinning reels, Shimano has designed in a gear alignment requirement as shown below:

(https://s26.postimg.org/5a2n9fell/Untitled.jpg)

Well that's kind of why I shared that!

Here's the "reel" dillema:
They're both great for my price range, right?
Both come in different sizes, sub models, and have very closely related sister models, right?

What I'm wanting, in order of importance is...
Durability first and foremost.
Well heck, that's really the biggest concern.
Ease of use is important, but I'm sure all of them in those lineups and price range are easy to use compared to what I'm accustomed to.

You know I'm an Ambassadeur fanboy. Hard core, to the bone. Built like tanks, dead simple to use and maintain, a lot like pretty much everything I own. Those are the kind of qualities I'm looking for, except the fact that Ambassadeurs can be finicky and are no doubt unforgiving. Oh, and size. That's one of the biggest things I like about modern low profile reels vs my old round reels. I have small hands and arthritis, wore size small work gloves until I trashed my left hand in a bike wreck. Probably the only reason I get along with big reels is because it's what I started with. Folks have learned not to stand in front of or behind me when I'm swinging a hammer, cause there's no telling if/when it could go flying. I don't use glassware anymore, because drinks sometimes have a tendency to randomly hit the floor. This is also why I had to wrap my rod handle in hemp, men with normal sized hands that haven't seen quite the abuse that mine have would probably have no problem, but as soon as my cork handle started wearing a little smooth, I just couldn't keep a grip on it.

Ease of maintenance not so much a concern. I have no qualms tearing into an Ambassadeur or any gun I've ever come across. But I've tried to repair a couple of clocks, and one thing I've noticed with my not so dearly departed Black Max, the older Daiwa I have, and my new to me pawn shop Shimano is that they're kind of like clocks in one regard: lot of very small parts that require a fine and steady hand to tear down and reassemble. I can do it, but it's difficult enough that if I invest in a better reel I'll be outsourcing that sort of work. Probably to one of you guys, since my local reel repair man really isn't much better off than I am! I'm a 33 year old Marine combat vet who's worked with my hands all my life, he's an 80 year old Marine combat vet who's done the same. Plus he has fingers like kielbasa sausages.

By the way, that kerosene you smelled on those two reels that were repaired in Orlando? Possibly Hoppes' bore cleaner. I've used it from time to time to clean the metal parts in my Ambassadeurs, but you have to clean that off thoroughly and thoroughly relube everything. Kerosene is one of the main ingredients, and I'm sure you know kerosene is an awesome cleaning solvent, but there are other ingredients in it that will eat brass for dinner and it's not always friendly towards synthetic materials. Brass and bronze gears and bushings will acquire a nice, rough and dry green patina. It actually interacts more with the copper content in brass and bronze, it's main purpose being to dissolve powder and copper fouling in barrel bores.
So if you didn't THOROUGHLY remove it and neutralize it with something else, those reels are probably irreparable trash by now, or will be soon.

Well those Kerosene reels have not come back- yet. So that is a good thing.

As for reel reliability, I would give the Shimano the edge on that one. I am still using an old Curado that is now about 25 years old and still as smooth as nice to use as when it was new.

I'll stay away from commenting on those abu's you like. We have discussed that before... and it looks like both of our opinions are pretty much set in stone on those reels.

(https://s26.postimg.org/xhcgqmgfd/IMG_20171005_120226.jpg)

First reel across the workbench this morning was a Bass Pro Carbonlite reel, I think it was a CL10H.

Not a bad little reel. A typical Bass Pro creation... it did have an aluminum frame so that was a plus. And it also had dual braking- magnetic and centrifugal brakes. And it had ball bearings in the grips too which is not a big deal really. Some like them, some don't care.

So at first I thought this was suppose to just be a quick fix, but then my boss said a C&L, and I can see that was noted on the ticket too. But the problem it came in with was noted as a casting problem. I tried operating the reel and noticed another distinct problem reeling it. It was fine to a point and then got tight and was difficult to reel but it did keep going and then got easy to use again. I found that peculiar so I began my regular tear down of it.

The first thing I noticed was the owner had removed the handle himself and put it back on and got the handle nut cross threaded and he tightened it down that way damaging some of the drive shaft threads.

Well here is the first problem I came across that explained why the reel got tight in one spot...

(https://s26.postimg.org/eet33p5ex/IMG_20171005_121826.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/v54gt13u1/IMG_20171005_121921.jpg)

This reel had about 1.5 inches of braid line wrapped around the line guide worm gear wrapped tightly down in the worm gear groove the pawl tracks in.

Here it is removed...

(https://s26.postimg.org/3lq68xdih/IMG_20171005_123907.jpg)

And I can tell the owner of this reel knew he wrapped braid line around the worm gear because he scratched up the inside of the frame trying to remove most of it himself:

(https://s26.postimg.org/b0fi1aze1/IMG_20171005_131113.jpg)

Another issue I noticed is the cast mode trip lever was worn down some, but nothing close to how bad the Daiwa was mentioned earlier in this thread. At least with this BP reel the part is made from molded quality metal and not cheap pot metal and even though worn, is still in good usable shape. I will take a small file and clean it up some before putting it back into this reel.

This one will last many more years to come...

(https://s26.postimg.org/e0rr43lbd/IMG_20171005_123724.jpg)

The aluminum gear in this reel is nicely done, but the drag washers are some real cheapo plastic cardboard type punched out of a sheet of this stuff. The washer under the main drive gear was stuck onto the drive gear and when removed it left behind some of the surface of the drag washer still stuck on the drive gear which I cleaned up before reusing:

(https://s26.postimg.org/jl8tsh9k9/IMG_20171005_133456.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/bbwye2fu1/IMG_20171005_133600.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/onq5n9iuh/IMG_20171005_133705.jpg)

The casting problem was nothing more than one of the three spool bearings had gotten crunchy from rust and was preventing good casts. So all three bearings were cleaned and lubed and high speed spun checked before putting them back into the reel. Now it will cast as well as when new or maybe even a little better since the grease was removed from the bearings and a lightweight oil was used instead.

Oh, and there was one other issue slowing down the cast of this reel. The grease BP uses in this reel was thick as glue. And it was gobbed onto the pinion gear literally gluing it to the clutch bar. So I removed all the old hardened thick sticky grease and replaced it with new grease and freed up the pinion gear quite a bit.

And now she is ready to rock again!

(https://s26.postimg.org/rs0tk1zmx/IMG_20171005_143625.jpg)

My personal opinion of this reel... it is an OK reel. I have used reels like this one in the past like my old Johnny Morris signature series BP reels, and my old Rick Clunn signature BP reels, and my Browning reels are all almost identical to this one with the exception of the ones I used are more top of the line BP reels and had brass gears and triple carbon fiber drag washers, but everything else is basically the same as this one.

So not a bad reel, but not a technology advancement by any means. Just the same old same old BP reel made lighter with an aluminum main drive gear and has a cheaper drag washer setup.

Another issue I have with this reel and my other 3 I still have in a pile somewhere is that on the spools are six brake shoes that are spring loaded which means they are harder to get activated having to overcome the spring in order to touch the drum, and because of the spring they are quicker to be pulled off the drum as the spool slows down.

I use to remove the springs from some of the brake shoes so this did not happen in some of my reels. I modified how the centrifugal brakes operated, but today I have just simply moved away from this type of design and now prefer the newest Shimano braking that does not have springs controlling the brake shoe. My curados also do not have magnetic brakes like this one does.

I'm not saying any of this is bad, just that I have moved on from this type of reel two fishing seasons ago. But you know, take care of these BP reels and they are very reliable and will last for years.

This next reel I chose to work on today was in the quick fix box. So that means I am only suppose to fix only what is broken and nothing more. But as usual I go above and beyond because on this one it was very necessary.

This reel was a Quantum Snapshot LS-30 spinning reel. It came in with the request to simply fix the AR. I tried reeling with it and could barely turn it. It was noisy and bearings all crunchy.

So I knew I had to go inside the body of this reel to replace one or more bearings to get this reel turning again. And I found it was so badly rusted up I had great difficulty in taking it apart. The following images show how extensive the rust was:

(https://s26.postimg.org/p6zua9zmx/IMG_20171005_145525.jpg)
This left side of main drive gear bearing is where the rotation problem was. That bearing was darn near frozen up solid from all the rust and had to be replaced to free up this reel
(https://s26.postimg.org/87qvv0ofd/IMG_20171005_145534.jpg)
The following image shows how it looked when taken apart. Rust in the oil just flowing out everywhere.
(https://s26.postimg.org/n69apg3hl/IMG_20171005_150814.jpg)

Even the stainless steel shaft was pitted and needing a light sanding:

(https://s26.postimg.org/tl8bm4a7d/IMG_20171005_152419.jpg)

The next image shows this reel use to be one of those quickfire trigger reels, but the owner removed all of that from the rotor throwing it badly out of balance and now wobbles when reeled fast.

(https://s26.postimg.org/nzlwi29ih/IMG_20171005_155122.jpg)

(https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fep.yimg.com%2Fca%2FI%2Fyhst-98884526134160_2258_928491197&hash=61f34185e6e6804d36f21d754fbfdf6ebc3fbe9f)

But here is where the problem was... the AR simply stopped working.

(https://s26.postimg.org/adl6pirvt/IMG_20171005_145253.jpg)

The following lever was frozen onto the pivot. Basically this reel had been used for years in saltwater and so it was excessively corroded and oxidized and that caused this lever to stop moving.

(https://s26.postimg.org/7akgm5cx5/IMG_20171005_153110.jpg)

And so for a quick fix on this reel, the lever shown above I had to sand the oxidation off the inside of the hole and sand the pivot so this part could freely move and rotate, and that small spring needed more umph to it so I had to bend the spring in a couple of places so it had more force to move this lever into place when needed.

I also replaced some bearings in this reel, cleaned the oil out of it and replaced with grease and reassembled it.

***Don't put oil inside a spinning reel!

My opinion of this reel is it is junk.

Its funny you mention your dislike for the Abu reels, but liked your old BPS reels. I would tell you that they are made by the same company, but im sure you already knew that. Lol.

<")))>{

You don't have a point here.

It does not matter if they are made in the same place or same company. That is irrelevant and does not bring anything to the table. The difference is in reel design and function.

I don't like reels that make the line guide go back and forth during a cast. And I also don't like how cheap the aluminum side plates are on the abu which bend and distort way too easily. I have no use for abu round reels any more, but I can get more use out of the other reels mentioned.

So what was your point?

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on October 05, 2017, 09:42:08 PM
You don't have a point here.

It does not matter if they are made in the same place or same company. That is irrelevant and does not bring anything to the table. The difference is in reel design and function.

I don't like reels that make the line guide go back and forth during a cast. And I also don't like how cheap the aluminum side plates are on the abu which bend and distort way too easily. I have no use for abu round reels any more, but I can get more use out of the other reels mentioned.

So what was your point?

Point is, they are made by the same company and same materials and parts. So the fact that you dont understand that and think one is better than the other is quite humerus. They both come from a Korean OEM called Doyo. So yeah, I do have a point. Lol.

<")))>{

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on October 05, 2017, 09:52:56 PM
Point is, they are made by the same company and same materials and parts. So the fact that you dont understand that and think one is better than the other is quite humerus. They both come from a Korean OEM called Doyo. So yeah, I do have a point. Lol.

<")))>{

How can you sit there and say they are made of the same materials when the abu clearly has aluminum side plates and BP reels have plastic side plates.

You have no point and are not contributing to the overall usefulness of a forum created for sharing information, not BS.

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on October 05, 2017, 10:09:34 PM
How can you sit there and say they are made of the same materials when the abu clearly has aluminum side plates and BP reels have plastic side plates.

You have no point and are not contributing to the overall usefulness of a forum created for sharing information, not BS.

Depends on the models. They are both made by Doyo. You clearly know nothing about reels. Maybe you should ask one of your techs while you juggle around customers reels that paid money for you to repair their reels, but you feel you are too good for Woking on their junk.

<")))>{

Quit picking on my BPS reels, they're what I can afford and you're giving me a complex!!! :( :'(
Rodney

Ambassadeur reels, the design is obsolete, even I won't deny that.
Muscle cars from the 60's and early 70's are obsolete too, but I'd still take a '69 Chevelle SS 396, even in pretty rough condition, over a brand spankin new Corvette any day of the week and twice on Sunday.


My Ambassadeurs were made in Sweden. I personally won't own any of the newer ones made in Korea. You can tell the difference in quality almost as soon as you touch them. They simply just feel cheaper. I noticed this before I even learned they were being made in Korea. Hell, Connie noticed it. She picked one up in BP and immediately said "This isn't like yours."
"Whatcha talkin bout? They're the exact same thing. Actually, that one should be a lot nicer."
I held it for about 3 seconds and my stomach turned. I was disappointed.

We recently got three of them in that had been used in saltwater and the big discussion was should we even bother with them??? Everything was so corroded up they were at a point where everything had to be replaced and it would be better to just replace them and move on...

Reels do reach a point of no return... and the cheaper they are made the quicker that point gets.

Quote from: Oldfart9999 on October 06, 2017, 05:56:39 AM
Quit picking on my BPS reels, they're what I can afford and you're giving me a complex!!! :( :'(
Rodney

Rodney I actually liked my old BP reels. I still have 3 of them including one top of the line Johnny Morris I just have not let go of even though I no longer use it, it is a decent reel and built to last for the most part. I have never had one break on me, but I have seen some come through the shop people seem to break some how.

The ones I used to concentrate on were the Rick Clunn reels. I could get those real cheap off ebay and then upgrade them internally with the Johnny Morris gears and triple carbon fiber drag washers and up the speed.

I sold them all off to my local fishing buddies who are still using them to this day without problems too. That says something.

It's dead easy to set up an Ambassadeur for salt water and a child can maintain them at home. I know because I was a child when I learned how. That's not a problem with the reel, that's a problem with the owners.
Good grease, grease the screws, add plastic washers to the screws, rinse, clean and lube after each trip if it's a once or twice yearly charter fishing trip. I know regular saltwater fishermen do a twice yearly maintenance.

I had a gun come to me, owner complaint was "constant malfunctions". Beretta M9, more specifically, failure to feed after the first round. Couldn't find a problem. It was pretty clean, properly lubricated, did have a few marks on the breech face from incessant stove pipes (where the next round from the magazine, or ejected casing gets jammed pointing straight up). There were also some very minor marks in the chamber from the rounds that would chamber. Owner did say the first rounds from the magizines chambered rough. Neither of these were bad enough that they should cause a problem, because the gun was so unreliable that the owner couldn't shoot it much. So I was looking for burrs on the feed ramp, breech face, chamber edges. Found none. Looked at the magazine springs, appeared new, nice and strong. Looked for burrs on the mag lips. Nope, nada, zilch, this was now a mystery malfunction.
Ran some ammo through it from my own stockpile. Not even a hiccup.
Called the owner, discussed a possible ammo related problem. Turns out he'd been using .380 ACP and 9mm Mak because he already had several boxes on hand and didn't see the need to spend money on actual 9X19 ammo. Both .380 and Mak have shorter casings, meaning the OAL of each are also shorter.
This, after he'd mentioned "I paid $500 for an unreliable gun!"
I get my range fodder 9mm ammo for $11 per box of 50.
I hung up the phone. He tried calling back several times. After a smoke and cup of coffee to calm me down, I answered and pretended my battery had died.
Told him to come get his gun and use the proper ammo in it.

Moral is, lots of times... hell, MOST times, it's the end user who's messed something up. You know this.

Quote from: SteelHorseCowboy on October 09, 2017, 10:43:40 AM

Moral is, lots of times... hell, MOST times, it's the end user who's messed something up. You know this.

See it all the time SHC. But for some reason most of them like paying someone to tell them something was wrong other than them!  :o

Hey SHC do you ever use lefties??? Or, are you a switch hitter casting with your right and then switching the rod over to your left hand to reel in on a righty?

I am just curious if you fish this way and had ever considered using a lefty and keeping the rod in the casting hand, or do you cast with your left arm?

I've tried all different ways, casting with my right and then switching hands is just what works best for me, even more so now with both hands about crippled.
In my left, lots of nerve and tissue damage. Limited use of my fingers, lousy range of motion in most of them, very little strength, lot of times it simply won't do what I tell it to. It's like everyone's least favorite drunk friend, just does whatever the hell it wants no matter how much you try to make it see some reason. My right's not much better, has a bit more coordination and strength, and even lets me boss it around.

So, way I do it is; I cast, then place the rod in my left hand and use my right hand to wrap my left fingers around the grip. If I squeeze my left hand tight enough around the grip, I can mostly count on it staying there.

Can't squeeze the clutch on a motorcycle normally anymore either. Instead of reaching out with my fingers and pulling the lever back, I take my whole left hand off the bars, hook it downward in front of the lever and pull it to the rear with my palm. Then if I need to hold it there, like if sitting at a stoplight, I slightly adjust to hook my thumb behind the handlebar grip and hope like hell the rest of my hand doesn't suddenly decide to dump the clutch. Whenever I get another bike, I'm gonna see about reversing the clutch lever, where I can reach back with my thumb and push it forward, rather than rely on my fingers to hold it back.

SHC I am sorry to hear about your physical disabilities that affect many aspects of your life.

I am glad that you can still fish and do most of the things you want to do.

Keep on truckin' !

This comment is a general suggestion...

Today I got a reel on the workbench needing repairs and parts.

The problem is the owner did not say exactly what model reel it is and so on the ticket all it says is Abu Revo and nothing more.

All of the paint, graphics, and markings are worn off this reel. I have no idea what it is. As a guess we think it is a first generation Abu Revo S.

How am I suppose to identify part numbers if we can not determine precisely what model reel this is?

So my point is, keep a record of what reel models you have so when repairs are needed you can provide the correct information to repair facilities.

So to repair this reel, with no model number, and no part numbers, I had to manually search through parts boxes for matching parts.

A pain in the rear!

In my opinion this type of information should be the responsibility of the reel's owner.

You're very much right on that point. I keep gun logs, recording make/model/serial, what generation of a particular model, rounds fired, ammo manufacturers and ammo lot numbers, accessories purchased for each, identifying markings, alterations, and maintenance performed.
I do also have all the info I can find for my reels, except my newest one, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Several reasons. First is exactly what you mentioned. My 44 mag is a second generation of a model that has 4 different iterations. Mine, my son's, and my dad's 22 rifles are all technically the same model. Except my dad's is a Western Auto Revelation model 120 with no serial number (made before serials were required) mine is a Glenfield 60 made in the 70's, and my son's is a 2016 Marlin Model 60. All the same rifle, but have a few differences a few of the parts.
Dad's also has an old Tasco scope, mine has a '72-'73 Weaver Classic 400, and my son's has some cheapo from Academy that seems on par with my Weaver.
Other reasons are that it helps me keep up with needed maintenance, and will help identify them in case of theft.

The most common jobs I do are cleanings and spring replacements. It's amazing to me, the number of rednecks round here that don't even know how to disassemble their firearms. Had an old Ithaca 1911 someone brought in several months ago. "Doesn't work". Quick look, filthy. Slide felt like it was stuck in a cold river of molasses. "When's the last time you cleaned it?"
"Yesterday!"
"Um... how do you clean it?"
Turns out he cleaned the bore of the barrel, not very well either, and would every now and then squirt some oil on it.
He had no idea how many rounds had been fired through it, and no idea how to even take it apart.
This turned out to be a Mil-surp gun made in the early 40's. The military is pretty notorious for "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Side note, that's what got me interested in working on guns, having to build springs from safety pins in the field for my machine gun while in Afghanistan.
A quick scrub revealed a few small parts that needed replacement, replaced all the springs, lubed it, and it was back to it's former glory of an old rattle trap warhorse.

SHC let me ask... when you work on a gun are you paid by the hour or by the job?

Working on reels we are paid by the job. Some are quick and easy and some take more time, but you know trying to research a reel to figure out what it is, is very time consuming.

And what makes it worse is that some brands do not put out info information on their websites or in literature to make identifications even possible on some of the reels. I got lucky yesterday that one reel technician actually recognized the reel from its physical shape and features which got us close enough to know what area of the parts bins to dig around in.

I am gonna have a little chat with our counter person about making sure to find out the correct information as they take in reels.

Here is one for the record books.

Everyone at our shop knows that Curados are one of my favorites so without question curados- and other shimano reels- just drop out of thin air onto the workbench. I got a pile of old Curado B series reels yesterday with stickers on them #14, #17. I asked another tech who knows the customer how many reels does this guy have? He just grinned and said a pile of them. No doubt. And he is still using these 25 plus year old reels to this day and all of them still worked, just need some TLC and maintenance is all. But on one of them I noticed braid line so thick it looked like 100 pound braid so he must be using some of these reels like a wench.

Anyways, here is another curado for the record books. One of our longtime customers is a professional. A good old Florida cracker who likes to have a real good time when fishing. Sometimes, too good of a time.

So one day last month I had this curado dropped on me asking me if I could fix it. But with a bent frame and bent spool it was doubtful- at least this frame and this spool were not going to get fixed. So I dug around in our backroom full of old reels and I found another identical reel back there with a good frame and good spool so I could transfer parts and build him another reel from the wreckage of this one.

I noticed right off that this one had been hit hard. I mean what would hit hard enough to cause this damage? I developed my own theory and I was happy to find out I was actually right. I looked at the size of the channel blown through the frame and I theorized this reel had been shot with a .22 caliber bullet.

I got to talk to the customer when he came in and I asked him and he confirmed that yeah, he had been drinking and having too much of a good time and he shot the darn thing by accident. So he was happy to be handed back a working reel.

(https://s26.postimg.org/d9n2ylajt/IMG_20171010_143926.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/5i6d016eh/IMG_20171010_143949.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/77fg83m3t/IMG_20171010_144142.jpg)

Since working on guns is something I do irregularly, mostly for fun, and strictly in my spare time, I only ask the customer to supply the parts, and take goods in exchange for my service. Most of the hunters come by for a preseason deep clean and zero, free of charge unless they need to purchase parts or ammo, then drop some meat off later on if their hunts are successful.
Recreational shooters (and unsuccessful hunters) usually set some cleaning supplies or ammo on my desk, sometimes other gear such as holsters or belts, slings, fresh vegetables from their garden, a gift card to a restaurant, that sort of thing.
If I were to do it as a business, meaning I accept cash for services, or if I were to keep the guns overnight, I'd have to jump through the hoops of getting a federal firearms license. But if I keep it for a day, make a parts list or perform the service, then get it back to the rightful owner the same day and they come back when any needed parts come in, that's perfectly legal as long as I don't make any alterations requiring a license.
Some folks just come by for some trouble shooting advice and opt to do their own work.
With the way I operate, it's simply not worth it to me to jump through the hoops, pay all the fees, pay for the facilities needed, suffer through inspections, giving the ATF a free pass to enter my home or business whenever they want, etc, etc.
It'd cost me a few grand, months of headaches, and pretty much all sense of privacy. The ATF can legally come in and search your underwear drawer for contraband stuff, depending on the license you hold. And the underwear drawers and bedrooms of everyone else in your home.

Thank god us reel techs don't have to worry about the ATF busting in on us!

One of the best reasons to do something is because everyone tells you that you can't do something. And that is precisely what I ran into today. Yet another Abu Revo reel no one could properly identify as anything other than a Revo since all of the paint and markings were worn off rendering exact identification all but impossible.

(https://s26.postimg.org/5tyh7fhgp/IMG_20171024_113137.jpg)

The service ticket on this reel said just fix it. No clean and lube. Just fix the broken AR.

OK. Well, as I was plainly told by another tech that the AR clutch bearing in this reel is not sold as a separate part and that it is press fit into the aluminum side plate and comes as a whole piece that I would have to order the sideplate along with the factory pressed in AR clutch bearing.

Well I was not about to let that stop me.

I was hoping I could just restore the bearing to a usable state because the owner had packed it with grease and I was hoping that maybe that was all that was wrong with it. So I put it into our heated ultrasonic cleaner to remove all the grease and the needle bearings began just falling out of the AR bearing. So I recovered 4 bearings and did a count to discover more were missing meaning they were lost when the reel's owner took it apart to grease up the AR bearing. He did not notice the inner needle bearing retainer was broken and destroyed.

(https://s26.postimg.org/nzbflhgyx/IMG_20171024_114825.jpg)

***side note... if we charge a customer for a complete reel tear down, clean, and lube job, we are required to use a heated ultrasonic cleaner. So ask if your reel tech is using one for your reels!

Another reel tech looking at it said he had tightened it down too tightly and had too heavy of braid line on the reel- something around 50 pound plus braid on an AR bearing designed to provide less than 20 or 25 pounds of AR. So the heavy line, a cheap AR bearing, and yanking on it too hard broke it.

Take a look inside at the plastic retainer holding the little steel needle bearings: Cracked and broken.

(https://s26.postimg.org/ha4w5gvmx/IMG_20171024_120320.jpg)

For comparison, here is an AR bearing out of a Shimano Curado CU200B, now nearly 25 years old. Look how much thicker and stronger the plastic retainer is in the shimano reel as compared to the Abu/zebco/Quantum AR bearing shown above:

(https://s26.postimg.org/vvvwtpsfd/IMG_20171024_153048.jpg)

Since I could not accurately identify the reel I was working on, I scrounged around in our huge pile of used reels and in less than 2 minutes I found an old Quantum Energy PT reel sideplate with the exact same AR bearing in it. So I tapped out the AR bearing and heated up the Abu side plate to expand the aluminum before tapping this one into it for the repair that I was not suppose to do. But it worked like a charm!

(https://s26.postimg.org/8ck68436x/IMG_20171024_121008.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/5mauax6i1/IMG_20171024_124301.jpg)

And as I was putting it back together only then did I see the reel's owner put a different handle on it, one that did not fit and the drag star hit up against it. I told him I could put a used Revo handle on it for $10 and he refused and said leave it as is. He did not care if the drag star hit the handle. Apparently he just cranks it down all the way and leaves it that way forever. And then uses his 50 pound braid to just winch in the fish.

Oh well... we do what we can do...

Today I got 4 old Shimano Curado B series reels on the workbench from one of our longtime customers- a professional guide who owns about 40 of these old reels- the CU200B model in particular.

Some of his reels have not been serviced in many years. But, these old workhorse reels just keep on working and working and working. A very reliable reel. Our customer even numbers his reels.

(https://s26.postimg.org/j7at1j12h/IMG_20171024_160156.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/bfu32ywx5/IMG_20171024_160212.jpg)

The first thing I do is completely disassemble the reels and hand clean nearly every part in the ultrasonic cleaner which can get into places a toothbrush can't.

Once the parts are all cleaned and rinsed and dried. It is time to reassemble the reels, assess parts condition and replace as necessary while reassembling the reels. So far I have done 2 out of 4 and in both reels each only needed 2 parts replaced due to years of use and normal wear.

Parts for these old reels have not been made for years- decades even- but we still have some of them in stock and fortunately for this customer we had on hand just the parts he needed for his reels.

One thing I take a close look at before putting any parts back onto a frame is the wear spots on a frame where moving parts wear off the paint down to shiny aluminum metal. These are friction points that need special attention with lubrication when reassembling a reel. Here are some of the common wear points on a curado B series reel:

Reel 1 frame wear pattern:

(https://s26.postimg.org/szdh76bzd/IMG_20171024_145655.jpg)

Reel 2 frame wear pattern:

(https://s26.postimg.org/65p4boco9/IMG_20171024_161548.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/6jqgb9wrt/IMG_20171024_161614.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/43omxfep5/IMG_20171024_163035.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/z0frhznzd/IMG_20171024_164101.jpg)

So all of these noticeable wear locations receive multi-level "secret" grease!  :o

Another issue with these old Curado reels that most reel technicians will not notice and usually do not correct is the bent clutch plate. This plate bends from years of use of pushing down on the cast thumb bar, slowly over time it bends down from all that casting.

Here is what it looks like before straightening it out:

(https://s26.postimg.org/fmac4k755/IMG_20171024_143830.jpg)

This causes the thumb bar to sit in the reel at an angle and usually the bottom of it rubs up against the frame causing more unnecessary friction the more it bends.

So to go the extra mile with these old curado reels I always remove the clutch plate because for one it needs lubrication put between it and the frame because this is where one of the frame wear points is. So if you look at the frame where this wear pattern is located you should notice most of the wear is at the top.

When a person pushes down on the cast button or thumb bar, it bends the clutch plate in towards the frame at the top every time it is cast and this is where most of the friction occurs.

I remove the clutch plate and put in a vice and carefully bend it back into shape and I have learned to actually bend it a degree beyond 90 degrees so that once it is put back together the cast button will have a slight angle in the opposite direction reducing the wear point at the top and the cast button will no longer touch the frame causing more friction.

Notice how it is not square with the vice:
(https://s26.postimg.org/cw107dag9/IMG_20171024_145443.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/9qgeh5ru1/IMG_20171024_145457.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/c923hudk9/IMG_20171024_145527.jpg)

Here is what it looks like after straightening it out and reinstalling it back into the reel:

(https://s26.postimg.org/slc57krvt/IMG_20171024_151049.jpg)

I don't get paid one penny more for going this extra mile for our customers. I do this because I care about each curado and reel that crosses my bench.

Here are the worn parts in this old reel I replaced... a clutch pawl, and a line guide pawl. Both are made of quality steel and have lasted for decades and still worked before I replaced them:

(https://s26.postimg.org/ezbff1a95/IMG_20171024_145244.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/50qgsk0tl/IMG_20171024_145344.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/x7cuto2sp/IMG_20171024_163436.jpg)

Here's a shimano substitute for you... the curado line guide pawl I needed was BNT0042. We had one in stock and I have 4 reels to overhaul. So I had to find a substitute and we had one... the TGT0520 was the same part with a different part number. Problem solved.

(https://s26.postimg.org/yeqslvsx5/IMG_20171024_154158.jpg)

Another issue I had to consider was the drag washer. This Shimano drag washer is years old. No telling if original or not, but it was in good shape and did not need to be replaced. So I applied a little shimano drag grease and put it back in for more years of reliable service.

(https://s26.postimg.org/l7wr8m7u1/IMG_20171024_152103.jpg)

I still own several of these old B series reels myself and I keep one special one- a 3.8 speed reel on a rod at all times with a lure tied on to it most people never use... it is super slow and I love it and the fish love it too.

It is no secret I am a huge shimano fan, but every once in a while I come across a shimano reel I would avoid and never own and this calcutta 150 is one of those reels that has a built in design flaw I would rather never have to deal with as an owner/user of one of these reels.

Here is one that came across my workbench in horrible shape from years of use in saltwater and absolutely no maintenance at all. Just tons of rust and corrosion. But that is not the design flaw... and I thought abu round reels were bad about this, but this shimano is just as bad if not worse!

(https://s26.postimg.org/mzubh9gkp/IMG_20171020_112748.jpg)

For today I had a different Daiwa on the workbench... a tatula R 100XSL.

(https://s26.postimg.org/6unozknxl/IMG_20171031_123434.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/jd4ag5kx5/IMG_20171031_123742.jpg)

It came in with a bent handle and cross threaded handle nut which tells me the owner tried getting into this reel and gave up. It came in a zip lock bag with the parts he could not put back together correctly.

It had an interesting problem which I have no idea if it was a failure on the reel's part or if it was something the owner might have done when opening the reel, but I found that TWS line guide was not tilting in the cast mode.

Come to find out all the plastic parts in that mech were some how disconnected. Whether it came out of place on its own, or if the owner might of done it is a complete unknown. Either way, an important part of this reel's function failed. Maybe this was why the owner tried to get inside?

I found some corrosion on the frame around and under the part that slides back and forth tilting the TWS line guide forward during a cast. I wonder if that caused it to hang up and separate?

In any case, once inside it needed a good cleaning. The pawl was a mess as was the worm gear. An aluminum worm gear at that with plastic bushings on each end screaming for bearing upgrades if it were mine, but I don't think I would be buying one of these any time soon.

Another thing I noticed inside the reel was the clutch kick out lever sits at an angle inside the reel due to the pivot being a metal pin inside of a plastic clutch plate and a high tension spring constantly pushing on it cause the lever to operate at ever increasing angles as the plastic pivot wears down.

Here are a couple of images of the lever as it sits in the reel at an angle and then the second image shows me using a screwdriver to straighten it out as it was designed to sit and should sit- and maybe it does when new, but not on this particular reel.

(https://s26.postimg.org/9rapzutrd/IMG_20171031_125741.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/k0375oht5/IMG_20171031_125845.jpg)

Overall I am not impressed with this reel. It had only one carbon fiber drag washer and a cardboard washer under the main drive gear. (My old Rick Clunn signature reels from Bass Pro had triple carbon fiber drag washers) Just not much here to get excited over. What I am seeing is a failure of plastic parts.

Its a shame Daiwa makes the constant moving parts in the TWS tilting out of all plastic parts. And that is precisely what failed in this reel. Daiwa's reputation riding on a small plastic pin to hinge their entire mech and rep on.

For this reel, if it comes back with the same problem, then I will have to replace those plastic parts that failed in this reel and the customer will have to wait on Daiwa to ship them to us. (Because we are not a warranty repair facility for Daiwa and we do not stock a lot of their parts) Shimano is another story... our shop has been a Shimano warranty repair facility for Shimano rods and reels for many years and the reason is simple... throughout central Florida Shimano is the number 1 brand of reels most fishermen choose in our area by a huge margin. Coast to coast it is shimano, shimano, shimano and Daiwa who?

Shimano makes up as much as 50% of our business and probably closer to 60% of the reels we see. Daiwa is not well represented in our area. Daiwa is probably less than 5% of our business. Not many fishermen in our area buy Daiwa reels. Simple as that. We see more Abu and Penn reels than Daiwa. So we have a huge inventory of Shimano and Penn and Abu reel parts, but not a lot in the way of Daiwa reel parts. Just boils down to logical business modeling after the existing market. Invest where the business is...

For my personal tastes, this reel's profile is too big, too tall, too boxy. But to each their own... when in good shape I am sure this reel works just fine for those who do like them.

Definitely not one of Daiwa's better reels.

I finally got around to this Daiwa today and guess what? It appears the owner of this reel does not read fishing forums and also does not read owners manuals and so he tied his braid directly to the spool and then wondered why the reel had no drag! Duh!

(https://s26.postimg.org/dbk4ta8tl/IMG_20171102_144516.jpg)

And this same customer brought in 3 other reels needing repairs but I only got to 1 of his other reels, this one was a Duckett 300LG. The ticket says just fix cast control knob. And it was a good thing this one was just a quick fix rather than a C&L because I would not have been able to get into this reel with what the owner did to it- I will show it later on...

(https://s26.postimg.org/6z4zjg5rd/IMG_20171102_151550.jpg)

Well I tightened down the cast control knob and it seemed to be shimmed correctly, but the right side of the spool was wobbling around and rubbing the frame so I removed the side plate and found it like this:

(https://s26.postimg.org/4vukbs5yh/IMG_20171102_151618.jpg)

But here is the reason I could not get into this reel as it came in the door...

(https://s26.postimg.org/lxnedvktl/IMG_20171102_152540.jpg)

The owner of this reel, the same guy who did not know to put backing line under braid- well he drilled out the screw holding on the handle nut cover and he did not finish the job. I would have had to finish it for him had this one been a C&L, but fortunately I did not have to get into the handle side of this reel and simply put a new bearing in the side plate and clip and put it back together and sending it back to him as is because he only wanted the "problem" repaired rather than a complete reel overhaul. His choice, not mine.

And on this one, I can only assume the owner never got into it because he never got the handle nut cover off, but when I backed off the drag star it was not shimmed correctly and there was some space in the drag star movement where it did not touch anything on either side and just kind of float spun around freely doing nothing.

Definitely not a reel I would ever buy or own for myself... Dare I use the J word?

Here was a couple of fun reels to repair... 30 plus year old reels and all the customer wanted done was the bails put back on the reels. Never mind lubricating these reels that have probably never been serviced- ever.

The 300S dated back to 1984 while the 300 goes back to 60's or 70's.

These reels were missing just about every part in the bails except the bails. Springs, levers, screws, you name it all missing. Fortunately we had in stock most of the parts for these reels but when it came down to the last Mitchell 300 we did not have the bail spring for a 50 year old reel.

So I had to make one... just look at that list of parts! Oh well. We do what we can...

(https://s26.postimg.org/6bww2fu3t/IMG_20171101_111922.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/ju3seq695/IMG_20171101_114613.jpg)

Some may not like what I have to say in this post, but like the old saying goes- truth hurts.

These two reels are 25 year old Shimano Curado CU200 reels. Both of them still work as you see them right here. They were brought in for servicing with a C&L- clean and lube job.

(https://s26.postimg.org/bd8vhjqy1/IMG_20171101_130146.jpg)

Both of these reels are used almost daily by one of our regular customers- a professional bass fishing guide in the central Florida area. He uses these particular reels because of how reliable they are for him. Just think, these reels have been in constant use for 25 years with very little in the way of servicing them. Our customer will not bring them in for servicing on a regular basis so we won't see reels like these until they really need to be serviced.

The point is, these reels are kick ass reliable as hell. Shimano.

And as I said above we are a warranty Shimano repair facility because from coast to coast in central Florida Shimano is king by a long margin and this is why. Plain old reliability.
(https://s26.postimg.org/6unozknxl/IMG_20171031_123434.jpg)
And shown above this post is another reel made by Daiwa that had an unusual problem- one that these curado reels can never have because the "problem" mechanism that is inside the Daiwa reel is NOT inside the Shimano reels.

And I can promise you that the two plastic parts that failed in the above Daiwa reel is not a fluke. I did a google search on it and found that it is actually a known design/materials flaw with the TWS line guide system.

So the bottom line here is, the Daiwa tatula R 100XSL shown above, will never last as long as these Shimano curado reels have. And that 100XSL will never take the use and abuse that these curado reels have and continue to work. It is simply not physically possible. And the reason is simple- plastic parts. End of story.

The Daiwa TWS line guide system is sad to say it, plastic junk that will not last. And getting mad at me for saying it will not solve the plastic problem waiting to happen inside of Daiwa reels. So take a look at the truth that hurts...

google search number one from a well known forum dedicated to fishing equipment when they reviewed the Daiwa reels with TWS line guide system- and I am copying and pasting a direct quote so you KNOW it is not coming from me:

"Internally, there are three specialized pieces enabling the transformation: 1. A lever attached to the thumbar; 2. A rotating worm gear housing; 3. the level wind itself. Taken as a whole, it's definitely a more complicated engineering solution than the original with one potential source of failure being the connection between the lever and rotating worm gear housing..."

The potential source of failure being the connection between the lever and rotating worm gear housing...

And this is precisely what happened to the reel shown above in this thread... let's move on to another googled source- this one from a review on a sales website:

"I hate to write a bad review about a Diawa product, but unfortunately this one let me down. The reel only lasted 3 trips on the kayak before the line guide failed and would not move rendering the reel useless. I liked how the line guide flipped down on this reel when clicked into free spool to prevent birds nesting, however that feature seemed to be too much for the reel. "

That feature seemed to be too much for the reel and it FAILED after 3 uses. Not too good there...

And another googled source- this one is from another angling website who reviewed the Daiwa reels:

"CONS:

    Weight is a factor for long days fishing
    T-Wing levelwind seems to be prone to failure (plastic moving parts)
    Not a good reel for power fishing deep diving crankbaits or heavy baits
    Made in Thailand

WOW! Seems to be a common knowledge type of thing throughout the world of fishing... Daiwa invents a fantastic gimmick called the TWS line guide system only to take manufacturing shortcuts and make the two most important parts of this gimmick of theirs out of some cheap plastic that is PRONE to fail.

I don't know about you, but I choose reliability over known to fail products. Simple as that. So let's take a look at the problem with Daiwa TWS line guide known failure problem:

The following images shows just the tilt lever attached to the worm gear housing. It is clear this lever moves up and down. It is very thin plastic. And a tiny little plastic pin is inserted into that hole in the lever.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qHSowxuFkpY/U75akF7NEvI/AAAAAAAAE6s/DAF4BlC63wU/w480-h640-no/IMG_6075.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-FWbRbMFANio/U75anfQnSMI/AAAAAAAAE74/PAEDVrfRFJA/w613-h460-no/IMG_6090.jpg)

The following image shows the second plastic piece, the clutch cam in place with tiny little plastic pin now inserted into the worm gear housing lever.

That's it right there. That is the problem that will fail. Just a matter of time, use, and abuse. If it were not for this problem, these reels might actually have a better reputation for reliability, but... it is what it is- and why I won't buy nor use Daiwa reels with this type of thing inside of them waiting to fail when I least want it to.

This type of shotcut to cheap plastic by Daiwa turns an otherwise not too bad of a reel into a reel lemon reel fast!
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4qZaQhZ_qAM/U75aqh4UvmI/AAAAAAAAE9I/2nrvc5L2K0s/w613-h460-no/IMG_6103.jpg)

So anyone out there who was led to buy this type of Daiwa reel... the clock is ticking, so give them lots of TLC or else. And then hope Daiwa and service repair facilities will still have the parts in stock. And when it does fail, be sure to send the bill to whoever talked you into buying one!  ~xyz

Oh looky, right now out there, these two plastic parts are being hyped up and sold out there- and this dirty little Daiwa secret is NOT being disclosed! Imagine that! The word is 'misleading' all day long! I mean if someone says they are an expert on reels, then shouldn't they be the first one to say hey reels like this have a problem? And if they don't freely disclose a KNOWN problem with the reels??? I'd say that was a problem. Raises a trust issue big time- or lack thereof.

Meanwhile I gotta go service some 'known' reliable reels so our bass pro can have them by this weekend for his customers to fish with...

These old work horse curado reels were filthy inside... years of accumulated dirt inside:

(https://s26.postimg.org/4baxvcnc9/IMG_20171101_131930.jpg)

Once I get the frames cleaned up in our ultrasonic cleaner I like to just take a few minutes to examine all the wear spots on the frame because this will help me when reassembling the reels to make sure I lubricate wear spots to try and reduce friction there and reduce future wear as much as possible that lubrication can do.

And since these two particular curado reels are heavily used by a professional bass guide, they see a lot more use than any other reels we would normally see, so the wear patterns on these reels is of particular interest to me because it teaches me how to adjust a repair for this reel.

The following images show the heavy wear from 25 years of hard use:

(https://s26.postimg.org/svmx62tk9/IMG_20171102_110954.jpg)
Have you ever seen a reel's foot worn so heavily it was sharpened on the end like this one? A plastic frame would never survive this much use...
(https://s26.postimg.org/d8vnspfs9/IMG_20171102_111032.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/xez5rlbft/IMG_20171102_111055.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/7n98onf3d/IMG_20171102_111107.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/6nixsxzxl/IMG_20171102_111134.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/mx93vuall/IMG_20171102_111148.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/k6zryndwp/IMG_20171102_111210.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/6c1hg6jhl/IMG_20171102_111947.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/sdwd3ytd5/IMG_20171102_112526.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/kmfn5ep7t/IMG_20171102_113808.jpg)

Still working even with a side plate dam near cracked in half! He was lucky we still had some brand new side plates still in stock for these 25 year old reels:

(https://s26.postimg.org/qbvvppve1/IMG_20171102_120507.jpg)

Definitely going to get a new set of brake shoes...

(https://s26.postimg.org/tlaaw6jhl/IMG_20171102_121552.jpg)

Even replaced the worn spool shims:

(https://s26.postimg.org/d9096g561/IMG_20171102_122244.jpg)

The one thing we do not have in stock any longer is a new set of gears for these reels. Long since discontinued, long since out of stock. And hard to come by, except for maybe on ebay... or taken from other reels... but beyond that, these old curado's are back in the game today...

Just got these beauties disassembled before leaving for the day so tomorrow morning they are going into the ultrasonic cleaner as soon as it heats up to temperature...

A nice pair of Shimano Stradic 3000FJ's... wish these were mine!

(https://s26.postimg.org/72yszpb8p/IMG_20171102_153627.jpg)

A lot of people miss following information for AR bearings:

(https://s26.postimg.org/4n1kzlijt/IMG_20171102_160711.jpg)

I wonder if we still have parts for this zero ball bearing reel???

Nah, it is not in for repair. It is just a show piece that belongs to one of our shop's reel techs. He inherited it from his grandfather along with the matching rod and all the rest of his grandfather's fishing equipment and stories to go along with it all from way back in the day... probably from when grandpa fished with Ernest Hemingway down in South Florida where our reel tech still keeps a house and boat in Key West...

Talk about high quality brass parts... this one still works like new and was getting a C&L today... I wonder why? This one belongs in a museum...

(https://s26.postimg.org/kgyk9vup5/IMG_20171103_134812.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/6ok5e93xl/IMG_20171103_134919.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/p5ek52jvt/IMG_20171103_134849.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/lafrg8q3t/IMG_20171103_134834.jpg)

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on April 01, 2017, 03:23:58 PM
There is still ways for dirt to get in there, its just better protected.

<")))<{

^Truth, this is FL, sand and water will find a way into anything here if it wants.

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Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on November 02, 2017, 07:59:22 PM
Some may not like what I have to say in this post, but like the old saying goes- truth hurts.

These two reels are 25 year old Shimano Curado CU200 reels. Both of them still work as you see them right here. They were brought in for servicing with a C&L- clean and lube job.

(https://s26.postimg.org/bd8vhjqy1/IMG_20171101_130146.jpg)

Both of these reels are used almost daily by one of our regular customers- a professional bass fishing guide in the central Florida area. He uses these particular reels because of how reliable they are for him. Just think, these reels have been in constant use for 25 years with very little in the way of servicing them. Our customer will not bring them in for servicing on a regular basis so we won't see reels like these until they really need to be serviced.

The point is, these reels are kick ass reliable as hell. Shimano.

And as I said above we are a warranty Shimano repair facility because from coast to coast in central Florida Shimano is king by a long margin and this is why. Plain old reliability.
(https://s26.postimg.org/6unozknxl/IMG_20171031_123434.jpg)
And shown above this post is another reel made by Daiwa that had an unusual problem- one that these curado reels can never have because the "problem" mechanism that is inside the Daiwa reel is NOT inside the Shimano reels.

And I can promise you that the two plastic parts that failed in the above Daiwa reel is not a fluke. I did a google search on it and found that it is actually a known design/materials flaw with the TWS line guide system.

So the bottom line here is, the Daiwa tatula R 100XSL shown above, will never last as long as these Shimano curado reels have. And that 100XSL will never take the use and abuse that these curado reels have and continue to work. It is simply not physically possible. And the reason is simple- plastic parts. End of story.

The Daiwa TWS line guide system is sad to say it, plastic junk that will not last. And getting mad at me for saying it will not solve the plastic problem waiting to happen inside of Daiwa reels. So take a look at the truth that hurts...

google search number one from a well known forum dedicated to fishing equipment when they reviewed the Daiwa reels with TWS line guide system- and I am copying and pasting a direct quote so you KNOW it is not coming from me:

"Internally, there are three specialized pieces enabling the transformation: 1. A lever attached to the thumbar; 2. A rotating worm gear housing; 3. the level wind itself. Taken as a whole, it's definitely a more complicated engineering solution than the original with one potential source of failure being the connection between the lever and rotating worm gear housing..."

The potential source of failure being the connection between the lever and rotating worm gear housing...

And this is precisely what happened to the reel shown above in this thread... let's move on to another googled source- this one from a review on a sales website:

"I hate to write a bad review about a Diawa product, but unfortunately this one let me down. The reel only lasted 3 trips on the kayak before the line guide failed and would not move rendering the reel useless. I liked how the line guide flipped down on this reel when clicked into free spool to prevent birds nesting, however that feature seemed to be too much for the reel. "

That feature seemed to be too much for the reel and it FAILED after 3 uses. Not too good there...

And another googled source- this one is from another angling website who reviewed the Daiwa reels:

"CONS:

    Weight is a factor for long days fishing
    T-Wing levelwind seems to be prone to failure (plastic moving parts)
    Not a good reel for power fishing deep diving crankbaits or heavy baits
    Made in Thailand

WOW! Seems to be a common knowledge type of thing throughout the world of fishing... Daiwa invents a fantastic gimmick called the TWS line guide system only to take manufacturing shortcuts and make the two most important parts of this gimmick of theirs out of some cheap plastic that is PRONE to fail.

I don't know about you, but I choose reliability over known to fail products. Simple as that. So let's take a look at the problem with Daiwa TWS line guide known failure problem:

The following images shows just the tilt lever attached to the worm gear housing. It is clear this lever moves up and down. It is very thin plastic. And a tiny little plastic pin is inserted into that hole in the lever.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qHSowxuFkpY/U75akF7NEvI/AAAAAAAAE6s/DAF4BlC63wU/w480-h640-no/IMG_6075.jpg)

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-FWbRbMFANio/U75anfQnSMI/AAAAAAAAE74/PAEDVrfRFJA/w613-h460-no/IMG_6090.jpg)

The following image shows the second plastic piece, the clutch cam in place with tiny little plastic pin now inserted into the worm gear housing lever.

That's it right there. That is the problem that will fail. Just a matter of time, use, and abuse. If it were not for this problem, these reels might actually have a better reputation for reliability, but... it is what it is- and why I won't buy nor use Daiwa reels with this type of thing inside of them waiting to fail when I least want it to.

This type of shotcut to cheap plastic by Daiwa turns an otherwise not too bad of a reel into a reel lemon reel fast!
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4qZaQhZ_qAM/U75aqh4UvmI/AAAAAAAAE9I/2nrvc5L2K0s/w613-h460-no/IMG_6103.jpg)

So anyone out there who was led to buy this type of Daiwa reel... the clock is ticking, so give them lots of TLC or else. And then hope Daiwa and service repair facilities will still have the parts in stock. And when it does fail, be sure to send the bill to whoever talked you into buying one!  ~xyz

Oh looky, right now out there, these two plastic parts are being hyped up and sold out there- and this dirty little Daiwa secret is NOT being disclosed! Imagine that! The word is 'misleading' all day long! I mean if someone says they are an expert on reels, then shouldn't they be the first one to say hey reels like this have a problem? And if they don't freely disclose a KNOWN problem with the reels??? I'd say that was a problem. Raises a trust issue big time- or lack thereof.

Meanwhile I gotta go service some 'known' reliable reels so our bass pro can have them by this weekend for his customers to fish with...

is that all Diawa Tatulas or just the low end ones?

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Quote from: Captsteve on November 04, 2017, 10:40:16 AM
is that all Diawa Tatulas or just the low end ones?

A good question sure to be debatable among the users and experts alike. I have not looked inside every Daiwa reel, but if the design and parts are the same, then it only goes to reason the potential for a problem is also there.

I have heard Daiwa has tried to address this problem but how I am not aware of at this time because I have not looked into that angle as yet. So it would be interesting to me to see and hear how this problem has been addressed by Daiwa.

I would suggest before investing in a reel to check it out online and reviews and even look at the schematic to try and determine if it is one of the industry wide known potential failure reels.

Good regular maintenance, cleaning and lubrication and TLC could help to prevent the failure, but... it is just a small tiny little plastic pin doing all the work inside of a thin plastic lever. Not much room for error or wear.

thanks for your reply

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Quote from: Captsteve on November 04, 2017, 10:40:16 AM
is that all Diawa Tatulas or just the low end ones?

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Steve the Tatula referenced here is the Type R on the older bulkier 100 frame. So at the time it came out it would have been a higher end tatula. Though the difference between one tat and another isn't huge. Just a few things like spool change.

I am not sure if maybe with the smaller framed ones they remedied this. The CT's might be different. The SV might as well. Not sure, I have never taken them apart. But perhaps when my service tech gets a hold of them he can check it out, and send me some pics of the internals. :)

cool, I am considering buying one. so please me know what you find out.

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Quote from: Captsteve on November 04, 2017, 07:26:20 PM
cool, I am considering buying one. so please let me know what you find out.

Do you know the model number of the reel you are interested in? Maybe I can pull up a schematic or find other ways of taking a peek inside...

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on November 04, 2017, 07:34:45 PM
Do you know the model number of the reel you are interested in? Maybe I can pull up a schematic or find other ways of taking a peek inside...

I'm thinking either The ct type R or the sv103

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Quote from: Captsteve on November 04, 2017, 07:58:27 PM
I'm thinking either The ct type R or the sv103

I just checked the schematics and the Tatula CT type R is pretty much the same the Tatula type R, but the SV does not have the TWS tilting line guide mechanism in the reel at all, so it won't have this problem. It comes with a standard type of line guide. So the steez SV might be a more reliable reel over the long term. And the SV has triple drag washer stack while the tat has just one as shown in the following schematics.

Here are a couple of schematics:

NOTE: the parts that fail are shown on the following 2 schematics as parts #41 and 65 for both reels, but with different part numbers... open both schematics for the following 2 reels and compare side by side. Darn near identical.

TATULA TYPE R 100HL/100XSL
http://www.daiwa.com/us/service/manuals/image/baitcasting/TATULA-R100HL_100XSL.pdf

TATULA CT R 100HL/100HSL/100XSL
http://www.daiwa.com/us/service/manuals/image/baitcasting/TACT-R100HL_100HSL_100XSL.pdf

SV103HL / SV103XSL
http://www.daiwa.com/us/service/manuals/image/baitcasting/SV103HL-103XSL.pdf

Another member here sent me a PM about their tatula and another problem to be aware of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia5YbmXoh4g

(https://s26.postimg.org/3zyjfpd7t/IMG_20171104_122327.jpg)

I may not be fan of Daiwa baitcast reels, but I am a fan of their spinning reels. Today I worked on one of their newer spinning reels, a BG 2000. The customer simply wanted it serviced, cleaned and lubricated. His reel was in like new shape when it came in so I was kind of surprised he wanted a full service job on it, but it gave me the opportunity to peek under the hood and I like what I saw. A quality made little reel.

There was one design issue that left me puzzled as to why Daiwa would do such a thing, but they included a ball bearing for the spool and simply slid the ball bearing down onto the spool shaft and put it right on top of the plastic shim washers so if the user cranks down on the drag knob, the thin metal spacer washer placed between the bearing and plastic shim washers is not thick enough to prevent the plastic washer from bending around the metal washer and touching the outer race of the bearing.

Generally one would not want anything to connect the inner bearing race to the outer bearing race that could reduce the spin ability of the bearing, but that is what I found on this small spinning reel, but it is not a big deal nor a performance robbing situation by any means, just more of a curiosity than anything else.

One really nice feature to this reel is that the pinion gear is supported by 3 bearings- 2 regular ball bearings plus the AR bearing. A lot of support and stability for such a small little reel. And there are ball bearings on both sides of the main drive gear and another under the spool as mentioned above.

It also had a carbon fiber drag washer in the 1500 and 2000 size reel and 3 in larger reels, but one feature Daiwa seems to have left alone and not improved on much is the oscillation gearing design is pretty much standard but with one bearing in the oscillation gear.

Oh, it did not have a ball bearing inside the line guide roller. Only a bushing... not sure why they would do this but if it works, it works.

When I pulled up the schematic for this reel, it showed me that all of the reels in this series from the 1500 size to the 4000 size are all identically made, just on a different size scale for each reel size. Kind of cool they would do this which gives the possibility for some crossover parts shared between reel sizes.

http://www.daiwa.com/us/service/manuals/image/spinning/BG1500_2000_2500_3000_3500_4000.pdf

This little reel was smooth to use. So I give this one a thumbs up in design and materials used for construction. So if you are looking for a good line of spinning reels, check out the Daiwa BG series.

http://www.daiwa.com/us/contents/reels/bg_sw_spinning/index.html

(https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.daiwa.com%2Fus%2Fcontents%2Freels%2Fbg_sw_spinning%2F__icsFiles%2Fartimage%2F2016%2F07%2F20%2Fc_us0101099%2FBG_5000_2.png&hash=27b00ce3c14bbba7f6f6a48b79d6e438bdbec781)


    Black Anodized Machined Aluminum Housing ("Hard Bodyz" Body & Side Cover)
    Over-sized Digigear (Digigear™ System)
    Solid Screw-In Handle
    Air Rotor
    Dynamic Cut Aluminum ABS Spool
    Braided Line Ready Spool
    Waterproof Drag System
    Carbon ATD
    Machined Aluminum Screw In Handle
    Manual Return Bail (4500 and Larger)
    6BB+1RB
    Infinite Anti-Reverse System (4000 and Smaller)
    Infinite Dual Anti-Reverse System (4500 and Larger)
    (BG Series 4500 and Above Have A Manual Trip Bail for Durability)

The last reels of the day for a slow Saturday at the shop... I took apart one fairly large Shimano spinning reel and while some of the parts were in the ultrasonic cleaner I decided to jump on another reel from one of our UB members here. A really nice reel too. A Shimano Citica 200D. And it is missing a few parts. Someone has been in the reel before because the drag star clicker is missing the click plate was in upside down, and it is missing some brake shoes, but I should be able to take care of that first thing Monday morning along with some hot coffee...

I ended the day with parts from two reels scattered across the bench...

(https://s26.postimg.org/tu8c5hd7t/IMG_20171104_144727.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/6itvr8und/IMG_20171104_164601.jpg)

And on the way home I stopped by Bitter's Bait and Tackle in Longwood to pick up a few things and right as you walk in the front door waiting to greet customers- besides Duckett the golden retreiver- was some bright and colorful Lew's pimping Crush I just had to laugh at when I saw it. These colors are not for me, especially at $200 each, but I did like the rubber grip on the rod was just like my Winn grip on my custom MHX rods.

(https://s26.postimg.org/wajsu6qzt/IMG_20171104_165826.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/o3rt2m0x5/IMG_20171104_165837.jpg)

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on November 04, 2017, 08:49:26 PM
I just checked the schematics and the Tatula CT type R is pretty much the same the Tatula type R, but the SV does not have the TWS tilting line guide mechanism in the reel at all, so it won't have this problem. It comes with a standard type of line guide. So the steez SV might be a more reliable reel over the long term. And the SV has triple drag washer stack while the tat has just one as shown in the following schematics.

Here are a couple of schematics:

NOTE: the parts that fail are shown on the following 2 schematics as parts #41 and 65 for both reels, but with different part numbers... open both schematics for the following 2 reels and compare side by side. Darn near identical.

TATULA TYPE R 100HL/100XSL
http://www.daiwa.com/us/service/manuals/image/baitcasting/TATULA-R100HL_100XSL.pdf

TATULA CT R 100HL/100HSL/100XSL
http://www.daiwa.com/us/service/manuals/image/baitcasting/TACT-R100HL_100HSL_100XSL.pdf

SV103HL / SV103XSL
http://www.daiwa.com/us/service/manuals/image/baitcasting/SV103HL-103XSL.pdf

Another member here sent me a PM about their tatula and another problem to be aware of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia5YbmXoh4g

The Tatula SVTW does have the TWS system. The SV you are looking at is a completely different model http://www.daiwa.com/us/contents/reels/tatula_sv_tw/index.html (http://www.daiwa.com/us/contents/reels/tatula_sv_tw/index.html)


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Quote from: Captsteve on November 04, 2017, 07:58:27 PM
I'm thinking either The ct type R or the sv103

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The SV103 isn't a tatula. It is using a bigger bulkier and heavier reel on the old zillion platform. Nothing against it, just making sure you know that. I hear its a fantastic reel. Personally I like the smaller frames like the Tat CT and Tat SVTW.

yes the tat site is the one I want

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Quote from: rickdelprado on November 05, 2017, 06:37:06 AM
The SV103 isn't a tatula. It is using a bigger bulkier and heavier reel on the old zillion platform. Nothing against it, just making sure you know that. I hear its a fantastic reel. Personally I like the smaller frames like the Tat CT and Tat SVTW.

I was not sure which reel he was referring to.

I would be leery of any of the reels with the tilting TWS line guide system since it is basically two plastic pieces constantly in use against each other even under the best of circumstances.

The reel I looked at last week had some severe corrosion on the frame under and around the worm gear housing lever which obviously increased the resistance required to move and operate the lever which probably was part of the reason it failed.

But there is another reason I have not mentioned yet...

The clutch cam is actually sandwiched up against the frame under the clutch cam retainer part #44 in the tatula schematics.

If the screws holding the retainer in place loosen up and back out at all, then the clutch cam plate can actually lift off the frame ever so slightly and this causes the tiny little pin in the lever to also back out of the lever making failure a definite. When this happens the clutch cam plate stops when it hits the back side of the drive shaft gear and worm shaft gear #68 and 75.

This was part of the problem with the reel I saw last week. The gears actually scored the back of the clutch cam plate as the owner reeled it.

Considering all but one of my actively used reels are TWS system, I suppose I will be keeping my eye out for any issues of the sort.

Quote from: rickdelprado on November 05, 2017, 09:14:27 AM
Considering all but one of my actively used reels are TWS system, I suppose I will be keeping my eye out for any issues of the sort.

how long have you had them?

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Quote from: Captsteve on November 05, 2017, 09:29:16 AM
how long have you had them?

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I've had the Tatula Tactical from TackleWarehouse since September 2016. It is my least used of the group because it is used for heavy pitching and punching.

The Tatula 100 Type R in October 2016 has been heavily used. Still functioning great. This reel has ZR Bearing upgrade which really turned the reel into a casting machine.

Tatula CT in December 2016 this reel also now has ZR Bearings and is a casting machine. I use this as my frog reel mostly and is very heavily used for everything including frog. It is making a slight subtle ticking noise when reeling, but has not affected the performance of the reel in any way.

Tatula SV TW sometime around March 2017 when it came out. Reel has been used a bit, but it doesn't do the heavy lifting that the previous 3 do. This is my worm reel mostly.

Tatula SV TW just bought it, used it once.

FFF, do you have any thoughts on the quality of the newer Mitchell 310? Just wondering. That's my go-to spinning rig and I'm loving it. All I've had to do to it so far is clean some gunk out of the roller. If I recall correctly, I think the roller is even on a bearing.

Quote from: SteelHorseCowboy on November 05, 2017, 10:31:13 PM
FFF, do you have any thoughts on the quality of the newer Mitchell 310? Just wondering. That's my go-to spinning rig and I'm loving it. All I've had to do to it so far is clean some gunk out of the roller. If I recall correctly, I think the roller is even on a bearing.

No SHC, I have not seen one of those yet so I can't comment on it. If it is working for you and you are happy with it, isn't that all that matters???

I did a quick google check on it and was surprised at the price variations from 39 at Walmart to 49 on the Mitchell website to 69 on tackledirect and there was one even higher than that.

If you check through all the reviews you will find reviews that go both ways for this reel. Some really like it.

Before leaving for the weekend I decided to take apart a reel I was curious about what was wrong with it. So I decided to break it down and get it ready for a cleaning. I probably won't be doing the actual cleaning and reassembly since someone else will probably do it before I get back into town, but I was really curious what the problem with this Abu Revo SX reel was.

It came in with the complaint that it was locking up. So I paid close attention when taking it apart...

(https://s26.postimg.org/6hqu0fuw9/IMG_20171110_113736.jpg)

And there it is... the problem staring me in the face... One side plate screw had completely backed out. The side plate screw that is behind the spool:
(https://s26.postimg.org/5w1v4bzu1/IMG_20171110_114505.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/klmp8u23t/IMG_20171110_114602.jpg)

You can see tiny shiny aluminum metal shavings visible once the spool was removed:

(https://s26.postimg.org/lg98uv9yh/IMG_20171110_114619.jpg)

This is where those shavings came from- the spool itself when the head of the backed out screw rubbed on it:
(https://s26.postimg.org/umrji5f6x/IMG_20171110_114634.jpg)
So if any of you have Abu Revo reels, pull the spool out and double check that this screw is tightened down before your reel winds up like this one:
(https://s26.postimg.org/4onxc49pl/IMG_20171110_114839.jpg)

If there was ever a reel with the fewest parts to make it work it would be this one... and amazing how smooth it is too even with zero ball bearings.

An Abu Ambassadeur V5000.

(https://s26.postimg.org/vg45arl7t/IMG_20171110_120448.jpg)

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on November 11, 2017, 10:34:45 PM
If there was ever a reel with the fewest parts to make it work it would be this one... and amazing how smooth it is too even with zero ball bearings.

An Abu Ambassadeur V5000.

(https://s26.postimg.org/vg45arl7t/IMG_20171110_120448.jpg)

As nice as a Quantum Iron? I have 3 and just don't want to give them up for any of the new models.
Rodney

No 3500CU. but have a Team Daiwa-S 1500CU.  Is it from the same line of reels?  You didn't mention the "-S", but I assume it is the same series.  Wouldn't mind a larger size.  I bought a couple refurbished gold colored Carbonlites like the one you mentioned.  I like them a lot.  I can cast 3/16 oz. Shad Raps without a problem with them.  Therefore I feel others could cast even lighter with these reels as I tried my first baitcast reel late in life, and definitely am not the world's best with one.

More than half my reels are Daiwas.  I expect them to last for a good many years.  None of my reels see saltwater use.  None see heavy use.  None get opened by me.  None get mistreated like the reels in your pictures.  However, most have been thoroughly cleaned and lubed by a professional, and a few tuned and upgraded.  Some new reels...and new-2-me...haven't as yet.  It is surprising how fast the cost adds up when you send several out.

Seems to me if a reel is worth getting repaired, then it is worth getting it done right.

This thread points out that most people aren't enthusiasts.  Most don't take good care of their reels.  Most don't care how a reel looks.  Most only care that it will cast line out and reel fish in.  Some try to save money by doing the repairs themselves even though they haven't a clue how to.  Then they want a professional to do the minimum amount of work...at a minimum cost to them.  It appears most reels going through your place of employment need a thorough cleaning and lube and often new bearings and other parts to bring them up to snuff, yet the owner only wants the destroyed part fixed....address future problems as they occur.

BTW, I am surprised that one guy just doesn't bend the star so it would clear the handle.  Maybe he doesn't own a pair of pliers and a big enough hammer.  Or he could use the ends for target practice and shoot them off.  Problem solved.   lo

Quote from: Oldfart9999 on November 12, 2017, 06:39:55 PM
As nice as a Quantum Iron? I have 3 and just don't want to give them up for any of the new models.
Rodney

Rodney I can't say whether it is or it isn't because I have never held a new Iron, but I have seen and worked on quite a few used iron reels and generally the gears were not all that smooth in the used ones.

If they work for you then keep them going! Don't replace until you have to! Or want to...

Quote from: 1ReelFanatik on November 12, 2017, 08:36:50 PM
No 3500CU. but have a Team Daiwa-S 1500CU.  Is it from the same line of reels?  You didn't mention the "-S", but I assume it is the same series.  Wouldn't mind a larger size.   

You are right. I did not mention the "S" but the photos clearly showed it. So yes they are from the same series. I would not mind getting a few more myself including one of the smaller ones you have.

Quote from: 1ReelFanatik on November 12, 2017, 08:36:50 PM
This thread points out that most people aren't enthusiasts.  Most don't take good care of their reels.  Most don't care how a reel looks.  Most only care that it will cast line out and reel fish in.  Some try to save money by doing the repairs themselves even though they haven't a clue how to.  Then they want a professional to do the minimum amount of work...at a minimum cost to them.  It appears most reels going through your place of employment need a thorough cleaning and lube and often new bearings and other parts to bring them up to snuff, yet the owner only wants the destroyed part fixed....address future problems as they occur.

I am glad you said this. If I had said it I would get raked over the coals! But yeah, we see reels when they generally quit working and most without maintenance by the owners. Just use them until they grind to a halt and then only fix what is wrong with them for the cheapest way out. We see it every day.

Quote from: 1ReelFanatik on November 12, 2017, 08:36:50 PM
BTW, I am surprised that one guy just doesn't bend the star so it would clear the handle.  Maybe he doesn't own a pair of pliers and a big enough hammer.  Or he could use the ends for target practice and shoot them off.  Problem solved.   lo

It would be problem solved. For that reel I actually went into the back room and dug out a handle that would have fit the reel as he had it. We told him it was an additional $5.00 for the used handle and he refused to buy it and wanted his reel back as he brought it in- only working. He did not care about the drag star hitting the handle.

What was the fix in the end for that Revo? Just tightened down the screw?

Quote from: SteelHorseCowboy on November 13, 2017, 02:17:15 PM
What was the fix in the end for that Revo? Just tightened down the screw?

Yep. That was all it was. Just remove the spool and make sure the side plate screw under it is nice and tight so this won't happen to you!

Aw naw, once bitten twice shy. I know the Black Max is bottom of the line pretty much, but after my time with it, I'll never buy an Abu low profile. The Orra does seem pretty nice though.
I'll never by one of their asian made "Ambassadeurs" either. They just FEEL wrong.
I was just asking out of curiosity.

Quote from: SteelHorseCowboy on November 14, 2017, 06:26:16 AM
Aw naw, once bitten twice shy. I know the Black Max is bottom of the line pretty much, but after my time with it, I'll never buy an Abu low profile. The Orra does seem pretty nice though.
I'll never by one of their asian made "Ambassadeurs" either. They just FEEL wrong.
I was just asking out of curiosity.

New Gen4 Revos are actually really bad  ^-^ reels. Gotta get the S/SX and up though.

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on November 14, 2017, 06:57:21 AM
New Gen4 Revos are actually really bad  ^-^ reels. Gotta get the S/SX and up though.

I don't plan to get none of 'em. If this Curado seems like it'll hold up the way my Swedish Ambassadeurs have, and I believe it will by looking at the build quality and their history, I'll end up getting one of each ratio.

Speaking of...
I have the XG. Would have honestly preferred the HG but I got the last one in stock at my tackle shop. Even asked the guy if they had one NIB that no one's been handling, he said I'm the only one who'd handled this one.
Anyway. 8.5 ratio. Yay or nay for spinnerbaits? Everything I've read says "nay", and I've still got the Caenan, my junk store Shimano spinning reel, and a couple more Swedish made Ambassadeurs. I'm pretty sure dragging crankbaits is what ultimately led to the death of that crappy Black Max with a 6.4, but I think that was more of a wimpy frame problem rather than a gear ratio problem.

The Curado will live up to your expectations!

Here is one I overhauled recently at the shop. The counter person knew it was a Bass Pro reel but with most of the graphics worn off they were not able to correctly identify the model number. I was able to but only after some cleaning... here is what the ticket said:

"Bass Pro red" as in Bass Pro red reel.
(https://s26.postimg.org/e8tthb7e1/IMG_20171114_135121.jpg)

It was a Bionic Plus reel with lots of saltwater corrosion:
(https://s26.postimg.org/vd6j68pwp/IMG_20171114_135145.jpg)

Finally a model number became visible after some cleaning... I think it was a BNP10HA:
(https://s26.postimg.org/7weo7h4bt/IMG_20171114_135232.jpg)

This reel had a cracked thumb bar, but in a few minutes of digging in our parts reels I found an old Bass Pro Rick Clunn reel that was virtually identical to this Bionic Plus reel that I was able to take the thumb bar from to repair this Bionic Plus reel
(https://s26.postimg.org/4tdy43pd5/IMG_20171115_112633.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/vfqet2tk9/IMG_20171115_112926.jpg)

One of the shortcuts Bass Pro did with this Bionic Plus reel was to put some really cheap drag washers in it. Here they are as found when taking the reel apart. The drag washers were stuck to the metal ratchet and pressure plate
(https://s26.postimg.org/i7r104w15/IMG_20171115_115447.jpg)

And the finished reel ready to fish with
(https://s26.postimg.org/6azefnu3t/IMG_20171115_122934.jpg)

They paid us to work on this reel about what it is worth in good used working condition off ebay. Definitely not a reel I would buy or use for myself.

One of my favorites... a Shimano Sustain spinning reel model 4000FG in for a standard clean and lube:

(https://s26.postimg.org/l1yrrbnl5/IMG_20171115_123831.jpg)

Due to use in saltwater, it needed some new ball bearings:
(https://s26.postimg.org/7322euyax/IMG_20171115_135307.jpg)

And the one part I found inside with the most wear on it was the line guide oscillation pawl which I replaced with a new one:
(https://s26.postimg.org/ds8luvjmx/IMG_20171116_124812.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/stfhpvrqh/IMG_20171116_124913.jpg)

The exterior cosmetic cover showing how much beach sand was inside of it:
(https://s26.postimg.org/5dxkkj7zd/IMG_20171116_132230.jpg)

Some of the tiny little bail parts that some do it yourselfers at home lose all the time:
(https://s26.postimg.org/wahjsuqsp/IMG_20171116_132839.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/7z3581xd5/IMG_20171116_133048.jpg)

A $300 Shimano spinning reel? Yeah I would definitely put one or more of these in my collection of reels.

Here are a couple of the bigger saltwater reels we get in all the time to work on. These reels definitely are not some anyone should try working on at home!

(https://s26.postimg.org/xvwtko10p/IMG_20171116_134828.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/xx6re32uh/IMG_20171116_134838.jpg)

Yesterday I rebuilt a Penn Captiva spinning reel model 4000CV.

(https://s26.postimg.org/jlsb6aqzt/IMG_20171124_152647.jpg)

It said on the ticket customer had taken reel apart and could not put it back together correctly and so they brought it to our shop and I was instructed to just put it back together correctly. Unfortunately the customer had left two shim washers inside the reel just floating around inside and he destroyed the gears and one of the washers in the process...

I know the photo is blurry, but one of the washers is visible sitting at the bottom of the inside of the reel
(https://s26.postimg.org/3ts8m4zl5/IMG_20171122_141040.jpg)

Now with the damaged shim washers removed:
(https://s26.postimg.org/rnbhr33ft/IMG_20171122_141106.jpg)

At least one of the screws holding the pinion gear in reel housing were loose and not tightened down. Yep, customer was in there too.
(https://s26.postimg.org/zes7pn7l5/IMG_20171122_141241.jpg)

Once I pulled the pinion gear out, I found the pinion bearing had a shield come loose and just float around inside...
(https://s26.postimg.org/jupvw83s9/IMG_20171122_144219.jpg)

And the now damaged gears. Fortunately for him we had all of them in stock.
(https://s26.postimg.org/xcws8ifxl/IMG_20171122_142351.jpg)

Ugh! I had to rebuild the AR bearing because the customer had messed it up.
(https://s26.postimg.org/5qu0ntwkp/IMG_20171124_141515.jpg)

And lastly, I checked the drag washers and yep dry as a bone! Dry one on the left, lubricated washer on the right.
(https://s26.postimg.org/y69e14lyh/IMG_20171124_151336.jpg)

He's back in business now. I just hope he stays out of the reels from now on.

As for the captiva reels, some either love them or hate them. They are not a great reel, but they are not a horrible reel. If a person maintains them and takes good care of them they can be a decent reliable reel. I had one once upon a time and mine was super smooth. But, I would not run out an buy one of these to use for myself.

Well I had some fun today. My first reel was an old Shimano Chronarch CH100B reel made around the mid 1990's. This one has been used in saltwater because it now has some corrosion on it. Notice how dull the dirty finish is as it came into our shop, and below see the difference after cleaning...

(https://s26.postimg.org/79pest355/IMG_20171124_155253.jpg)

This reel came into the shop with 20 to 25 pound power pro braid on it. And down at the bottom of the ticket it says the customer would like for us to put brand new 20 pound momoi line on it. COOL! Now I have another spool of braid for one of my personal reels! Rather than throw this line into the trash I will repurpose it for myself. One of the perks of  repairing reels.

And since I just did a reel for one of the members here on this forum, I gave him a full spool of braid on his Shimano reel for free that had come off another reel like this one...

Here is the frame of the Chronarch after it came out of our heated ultrasonic cleaner. I looked for any wear patterns on this frame to help me lubricate it and I was surprised to find almost no wear on this frame. Amazingly clean for a neary 25 year old reel.
(https://s26.postimg.org/i0d1ehgrt/IMG_20171124_165208.jpg)

Even the original Dartanium 2 drag washers were in great shape after nearly 25 years of use. Love them or hate them, they were not turning into goo and were still in good shape and went right back into this reel for many more years of reliable use.

Now ready for new line... An amazingly smooth and powerful reel. Definitely one I would buy and use for myself. And back in the day I did have and use these reels. I would not mind finding a lefty in good shape. Shined up and ready to fish!
(https://s26.postimg.org/a52hzo755/IMG_20171125_131134.jpg)

My next project... a Shimano Sustain 4000FA. A sweet old reel and definitely one I would buy and use. An awesome reel
(https://s26.postimg.org/tbfp2unmx/IMG_20171125_131606.jpg)

Here is another reel I would love to find a lefty of... a Shimano Calais CL200

(https://s26.postimg.org/5poo85k4p/IMG_20171109_120004.jpg)

This one had some strange Gomexus grips on it:
(https://s26.postimg.org/othzohwyx/IMG_20171109_115910.jpg)

(https://s26.postimg.org/o2ko4z57t/IMG_20171109_120027.jpg)

Definitely one sweet reel. A little big and bulky for my tastes today, but an oldie and a goody well worth having.

Why are you using mechanics tools on these reels?
If I catch a fellow 'smith using anything other than high quality hollow ground screw drivers, first words out of my mouth are "Well, hello Bubba."

We use all sorts of tools at the shop. It has been there now for 31 years so there is no telling what all one would find there in the way of tools.

Our shop sees a lot of salty dog reels, many of them are so corroded they are very difficult to open up. So we have need of some tougher tools along with the specialized tools. What I am trying to say is we need tools we can put some torque on if need be and we see reels that need it. We need tools tough enough to pry on and even hammer on from time to time.

We also work on all rods too and build custom rods. And not just bass fishing rods, but deep sea heavy duty rods too.

Another reason for the tougher tools is that our shop is a warranty repair facility for Minn Kota too. We repair trolling motors and power poles so we have tools ranging from the super small delicate little tools all the way up to tools one would find at a mechanics shop. We have it all really.

(https://s26.postimg.org/4e7gf3q0p/IMG_20180406_151648.jpg)

Shimano Citica CI-200G6

Complaint: Will not retrieve and won't kick out of cast mode. Stuck in cast mode.

Solution: Broken spring:

(https://s26.postimg.org/ixelgibft/IMG_20180406_152819.jpg)

Daiwa, Team Daiwa TD-V 103Hi reel:

(https://s26.postimg.org/u9r6yacex/IMG_20180406_112421.jpg)

Complaint: Casting problem and noise.

Problem: Broken spool

(https://s26.postimg.org/yvnb6miih/IMG_20180406_143101.jpg)

Mag Force don't work too good when the metal ring falls off the spool!

(https://s26.postimg.org/arwjibsbt/IMG_20180406_143115.jpg)

A nice pair of old TD's!

(https://s26.postimg.org/u9r6ya4p5/IMG_20180406_144549.jpg)

That old one on the right is from my personal collection and is available... I never use it.

(https://s26.postimg.org/6y3399b0p/IMG_20180315_155808.jpg)

Look familiar? Sort of looks just like Daiwa's mag force brake system.

Its not.

This one is a Browning reel...

Which reel to work on next?

(https://s26.postimg.org/cv4957iop/IMG_20180407_144247.jpg)

Or maybe one of these...

(https://s26.postimg.org/6hf61y62x/IMG_20180407_144313.jpg)

Here is a nice pair... getting the spa treatment and some new silicone friction rings...

(https://s26.postimg.org/rebe71489/IMG_20180313_115125.jpg)

Check out all the drag washer fuzz worn off a newer Ci4 stradic. I can use my older stradics for 20 years and never wear that much fuzz off the washers.

(https://s26.postimg.org/7jpckxjvt/IMG_20180314_174106.jpg)

not seeing pictures

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

The pics went away.
LOCK THE DOORS!!! CLOSE AND LOCK THE WINDOWS!!! NOBODY MOVE UNTIL WE FIND WHO STOLE THE PICS!!!

I still see them. I wonder why this is?

Is anyone else having this problem? Can admin or moderators help out here please?

Time for tapatalk!!!
Rodney

I don't see any  ;PHO) either.  :-\

I see the pics perfectly on TT. But I'm not seeing them on the desktop. Odd. I will reach out to Mike.

I let Mike know.

I don't see any pics. Where are you hosting the photos. That could have an affect.

I know for sure that if you have them in Google Photos they will show in Tapatalk but not on the PC UNLESS you set the album they are in to "share" on Google Photos.

I'm not seeing them on tapatalk

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Strange issue. Normally when a pic disappears like that you get a little red x. In this case there is no evidence of a pic being there.
On tapatalk they show up broken. Can't see the pic but i do see evidence there should be a pic.

Mike was able to confirm my suspicion that it has to do with where FFF is hosting the pictures. I believe Lou has reached out to him in regards to what he needs to do to make the pics visible.  :)

Yes Lou told me about this. I will have to find another host site.

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on April 17, 2018, 10:18:59 AM
Yes Lou told me about this. I will have to find another host site.

I use Imgar

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

(https://i.imgur.com/3TQbQ6Y.jpg?1)


Thanks for that suggestion. I now have an image account with imgur. I hope this one works.

Here is a nice pair of older Browning Stalker reels STG10HA. These came in for a C&L and have not been serviced since new.

These reels were made in Korea and brings to light a problem with a number of Korean made reels from various brands like Lew's, Abu, Zebco, Quantum, Bass Pro, Browning and others.

Found inside of a lot of Korean made reels is a blue cardboard like drag washer.

A lot of fishermen crank down the drag on their reels as tight as they can get it and then leave it that way. And this is not a good idea and was partly behind why these reels were brought in for servicing.

When I took these reels apart, the drag mechanism was completely locked up. The blue drag washers under compression actually adhere to the brass gears and steel drag plates literally gluing the drags on these reels together permanently.

I had to use a razor blade to remove the stuck on drag washers...

(https://imgur.com/MNnJHs1.jpg?1)

(https://imgur.com/TBNTo3k.jpg?1)

(https://imgur.com/H3y70eX.jpg?1)

The guy who owns these reels should be happy that his new drag washers are carbon fiber:

(https://imgur.com/oXHhLlt.jpg?1)

I identified this drag washer material... it is actually NOT made for drag washers. It is a gasket material:

(https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vatlieulamkin.vn%2Fimages%2Fjeil%2Fjeil-gasket-sheet-jic-6000-vietnam-tam-dem-lam-kin-khong-amiang-jeil-jic-6000.jpg&hash=b34ad4acdde99484c7b2379355c9faaa1274d971)

http://www.littleferry.com.sg/MechPack/jic6000.htm

Jeil E&S Co., Ltd. - Compressed Non-Asbestos Joint Sheet (JIC 6000)

This is manufactured by the hot calender process using high quality non-asbestos fibers and oil resistant synthetic rubber. Specially, this sheet has superior sealability with excellent oil resistance.

PRODUCT INFORMATION

JEIL JIC 6000 Asbestos Sealing Buffer (also known as JIC 6000 paper roll), produced by hot rolling line, is a non-asbestos padding material made of high quality aramid fibers braided with rubber NBR is widely used in many industries such as chemical industry, petrochemical industry, gas pipeline, water supply system, etc.

Sealing pads JIC 6000 are resistant to oil environment (excellent oil resistance), water, alkali, salt solution, hot oil, gas oil, freon, organic solvent.

Made in Korea
Materials: aramid fiber, NBR oil resistant rubber
Characteristic
• Environmentally friendly sealing pads.

• Excellent sealing material for oil resistance

• Suitable for water, alkali, saline, hot oil, gas oil, freon, organic solvent.

• Originated from Korea, the manufacturer JEIL E & S long and prestigious.

Application:
Chemistry
Petrochemicals, gas
Water supply

Here's an oldie I found yesterday... looks like an old mid 80's Shimano 2 speed reel.

This reel was missing both side plates, handle, and just about everything, and with what was left shown here it was still heavier than the reels I use today.

(https://i.imgur.com/7KNs9ss.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/sCsY6eg.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/zO1RTVW.jpg)

I thought I would post this service tip with the hope it might save a reel or two from destruction.

Shimano spinning reels, the stradics, stellas, and sustains especially along with mid line reels all use a small solid block of cast pot metal for spool oscillation. Shimano calls this part the oscillating slider.

The pot metal used for this part is brittle and can crack and break fairly easy. And for this reason when taking a spinning reel apart, do not just start pulling on the spool shim washers because just pulling on them can and will break the oscillating slider inside the reel.

Many reels have been destroyed in precisely this manner. So to avoid destroying a reel that could work for many more years to come if treated carefully, there is another way to  remove those shim washers without putting any pressure on the pawl, worm gear, and oscillating slider...

(https://i.imgur.com/3rTPgtJ.jpg)

Use the main shaft to remove the shims as shown above. Doing it this way does not put any pressure of any kind on the pawl, worm gear, and oscillating slider.

Trying to remove the shims carefully one by one is another way to do it, but one must be careful to NOT yank nor pull on the main shaft when doing this!

Save the stradics campaign on UB!

Speaking of stradics, I am working on my second frozen stradic this week. Salty dogs so rusted and corroded from saltwater and NO maintenance- the reels are completely frozen up. This one is a Ci4 2500F

Thanks for the tip!!
Rodney

You are welcome Rodney! I hope it can save at least one reel...

Hello, This maybe posted here somewhere.  I'm sorry if it is I'm a new guy if that counts as an excuse.  Are there any go to guys here on the forum that work on reels.  I was given a Shimano Citica LH that has never worked.  I think the guy bought it at Bargain Hunt.  I took it to a local shop here a couple years ago and he made some comment about "never seen a drag locked up so tight" or something.  I took it apart the other night and thought that I had fixed it until I put some line on the spool and once it had tension on it it would not engage or wind the line on.  Also I was proud of myself when I took it apart and put it back together until I noticed an extremely small pin and spring that was still on the table  ~b~  At this point I give up but would like to have it fixed if it's possible. 

Quote from: aclawrence on May 29, 2018, 03:27:52 PM
Hello, This maybe posted here somewhere.  I'm sorry if it is I'm a new guy if that counts as an excuse.  Are there any go to guys here on the forum that work on reels.  I was given a Shimano Citica LH that has never worked.  I think the guy bought it at Bargain Hunt.  I took it to a local shop here a couple years ago and he made some comment about "never seen a drag locked up so tight" or something.  I took it apart the other night and thought that I had fixed it until I put some line on the spool and once it had tension on it it would not engage or wind the line on.  Also I was proud of myself when I took it apart and put it back together until I noticed an extremely small pin and spring that was still on the table  ~b~  At this point I give up but would like to have it fixed if it's possible.

Mike Cork and LgMouthGambler both work on reels. I would suggest you send a PM to either or both and explain the situation and see how things go from there.  ~sun

Quote from: aclawrence on May 29, 2018, 03:27:52 PM
Hello, This maybe posted here somewhere.  I'm sorry if it is I'm a new guy if that counts as an excuse.  Are there any go to guys here on the forum that work on reels.  I was given a Shimano Citica LH that has never worked.  I think the guy bought it at Bargain Hunt.  I took it to a local shop here a couple years ago and he made some comment about "never seen a drag locked up so tight" or something.  I took it apart the other night and thought that I had fixed it until I put some line on the spool and once it had tension on it it would not engage or wind the line on.  Also I was proud of myself when I took it apart and put it back together until I noticed an extremely small pin and spring that was still on the table  ~b~  At this point I give up but would like to have it fixed if it's possible.

That tiny spring and pin on the table, is the clicker for the drag star.  ;)

Ok thanks guys. I'll see if I can get the little pin in and see if it fixes the problem or not. If not I'll beg y'all for help lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: aclawrence on May 29, 2018, 05:30:03 PM
Ok thanks guys. I'll see if I can get the little pin in and see if it fixes the problem or not. If not I'll beg y'all for help lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thats not gonna fix your problem. I was just pointing out what those parts are. Unless i have your reel in hand, I cant tell you what the problem is.

<")))>{

AC, you might be better off sending it Mike or Matt(LMG) and let them go through it.
Rodney

Our Shimano warranty rod and reel repair facility is sometimes overwhelmed with salty dogs!

I recently restored an old stradic back to full working condition. This reel had never been serviced since purchased new and the owner used it until it came to a stop and was completely frozen up due to saltwater.

Here is a look inside... I bring this one up because shortly it will be compared to a newer stradic in the same condition... only this older stradic took over 20 years to get to this point while the newer ci4 got to this same point in less than 2 years...

Green with corrosion:

(https://i.imgur.com/flnls4Z.jpg)

Removing the spool shows accumulation of beach sand and seashells inside...

(https://i.imgur.com/qbCap10.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/6eswKuz.jpg)

Removal of rotor and AR bearing shows one reason this reel is frozen solid. Bearings are rusted badly. More beach sand found deeper in reel... probably from owner rinsing reel after use in saltwater pushing sand and salt deeper into reel.

(https://i.imgur.com/bKGH56l.jpg)

Main drive gear stuck in side plate due to rust and corrosion. Needed to be tapped out. Bearing is rusted badly. Notice more beach sand now inside body of reel. Also notice condition of main drive gear shows signs of salt corrosion where the salt touched the drive gear it bubbled up even between the gear teeth, but since the bearings were all rusted and would not spin, this gear was not spun with crud in between gears. Gears were OK.

(https://i.imgur.com/XsJF0Yd.jpg)

Lots of sand found inside of reel

(https://i.imgur.com/yWcNz78.jpg)

Had to dig in one of the stradic boxes to find an obsolete part that was broken

(https://i.imgur.com/liRsdB4.jpg)

Even the pawl was corroded and barely moving in oscillation slider

(https://i.imgur.com/hv6LYlH.jpg)

Amazing this 20 plus year old AR bearing is NOT rusted and the saltwater had to go through this bearing to get to the rusted bearing underneath! This bearing needed a cleaning and it was reusable. The newer ci4 stradic not so lucky. Its AR bearing is less than 2 years old and is already rusted up.

(https://i.imgur.com/mTRuPsK.jpg)

All finished, cleaned up and back in perfect working condition shown with parts replaced...

(https://i.imgur.com/Kx1aTuj.jpg?1)

Here is what the ci4 looks like in a very short time frame as compared to the older stradics made of better materials:

(https://i.imgur.com/bMnEyOA.jpg)

So today, based on what I know of the stradic reel line, I prefer FH and FI stradics, and one FG, but I focus on staying in the FH's and FI's almost exclusively these days just because these stradics are made of better materials and seem to hold up better over the long term.

I was recently asked to repair a Daiwa twitchin' bar reel... when the customer was at the front counter with it he showed everyone how the gears grinded by spinning the handle and causing the gears to grind loudly causing more damage inside to those gears... but obviously he wanted what was grinding replaced and this is what I found inside... a spring had broken and the part some how migrated up into the twitchin' bar gears as shown:

(https://i.imgur.com/7jSOfYz.jpg)

I replaced the ground up gear with a new gear:

(https://i.imgur.com/JPut5sz.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/8L9PFgA.jpg)

All finished

(https://i.imgur.com/UxVBTdW.jpg)

And I noticed when I pulled a similar reel out of our used reel parts stock I found that there was a difference in construction of the magnet side plate I thought I would show here...

(https://i.imgur.com/GBAJzpa.jpg)

I gotta go overhaul 2 Shimano 6500 Baitrunners now...

And as a side note, we just finished up the huge plastics show in Orlando Florida. I had a blast meeting engineers from all over the world! I was surrounded by hundreds of some of the world's brightest engineers at this show. I met quite a few from Japan, Germany, and China. Made some new friends too as well as contacts in those countries for products.

The plastics show was loaded with new robots... We had to watch out for them or else. Due to our conversations I will be acquiring all new bearings for my reels that are not made of metal nor ceramics. Should be interesting!

Here are some of the booths nearby...

(https://i.imgur.com/n0kAVAv.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/6yfsXII.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/MqivYeh.jpg)

Oh, a funny story from the show floor... a couple of Chinese engineers came to our booth asking to borrow some tools. We said sure, but we did not have the type nor size of tools they needed.

But when one of the Chinese engineers asked for a magnetic level, he was handed a Harbor Freight cheapo made in China. As I handed it to him I said here is one from your country.

He looked it over and handed it back and said it was not accurate enough for what he needed and we all got a good laugh out of it.

So it is good enough to sell and send to USA, but not good enough for Chinese engineers to level out their plastics production machinery.

How many extra bearings are you getting? I have some reels that might be interested in an experiment.

I got 4. I'll do one reel and you can use the other 2.

I'll experiment with a Curado 201iHG. If you use them try them in a reel you use for your heaviest use.

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on May 29, 2018, 03:48:20 PM
That tiny spring and pin on the table, is the clicker for the drag star.  ;)

Quote from: aclawrence on May 29, 2018, 05:30:03 PM
Ok thanks guys. I'll see if I can get the little pin in and see if it fixes the problem or not. If not I'll beg y'all for help lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on May 29, 2018, 07:16:24 PM
Thats not gonna fix your problem. I was just pointing out what those parts are. Unless i have your reel in hand, I cant tell you what the problem is.

<")))>{

My pawn shop Caenan was missing the spring for the drag clicker when I bought it, so I just tossed the tiny pawl.
LMG's right, it makes no difference in operation, just removes the audible and tactile feedback when you adjust the drag.

Also, Lawrence, what kind of line are you trying to spool it with, and have you tightened the drag down? We've had anglers here on this forum with years of experience who have thought they'd broken their reels after mistakenly trying to spool braided line and forgetting to use a backing, AND after trying to spool their reels with the drag backed off almost completely.
These are understandable mistakes and can happen to anyone.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on May 31, 2018, 09:32:14 AM


The plastics show was loaded with new robots... We had to watch out for them or else. Due to our conversations I will be acquiring all new bearings for my reels that are not made of metal nor ceramics. Should be interesting!

Wonder if they're the same or similar to the bushings in the Concept Z?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Quote from: SteelHorseCowboy on June 06, 2018, 09:09:57 AM

Wonder if they're the same or similar to the bushings in the Concept Z?

No sir. They are not bushings. They are real ball bearings but made of new polymers hard enough to make the bearing balls and races. No metal to rust and oil. No ceramics to break and crack.

As far as I know this thread is the first online mentioning of this new bearing used in reels.

I already have some about to be installed in some curados. So at this point it is up in air how the new bearing will function or not.

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on June 06, 2018, 09:20:36 AM
No sir. They are not bushings. They are real ball bearings but made of new polymers hard enough to make the bearing balls and races. No metal to rust and oil. No ceramics to break and crack.

As far as I know this thread is the first online mentioning of this new bearing used in reels.

I already have some about to be installed in some curados. So at this point it is up in air how the new bearing will function or not.

Okay, I'm interested. Let us know how much you like 'em and how much they cost!

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Quote from: SteelHorseCowboy on June 06, 2018, 09:41:47 AM
Okay, I'm interested. Let us know how much you like 'em and how much they cost!

Cost? Pennies per bearing.

This was one reason I made friends with Chinese engineers was to learn from them and learn access channels. I was told Alibaba is a U.S. channel but the Chinese have a domestic only channel where prices do not include export taxes and other costs.

How many of you have owned or used reels that the body or side plates warped and twisted over time?

1. Today the trend in reel construction is moving away from metal to cheaper materials.

2. We all know heat and cold causes expansion and contraction.

But did you ever consider chemical expansion and contraction?

This is a huge problem engineers have to contend with and attempt to factor into reel design.

Chemical compositions are not 100% stable.

So we now have reel bodies and frames and side plates and internal parts made out of chemical compositions that do expand and contract throwing off key tolerances inside of reels.

Even placing two different chemical compositions into contact with each other inside of reels is causing reactions. Engineers have to be aware of what materials expand and contract over time.

And then add in the chemicals people might use on such a reel that could dissolve and damage parts.

Just taking them apart and putting them back together with factory shimming may no longer be correct when time for service comes along.

So at warranty repair facilities this is taken into account when rebuilding a reel aiming for factory tolerances even with the changing materials.

Only warranty repair facilities are made aware of specific situations not found in non-warranty repair places.

And with the price of some of today's reels this is another solid reason to have reels serviced under manufacturer approval and direction.

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on June 05, 2018, 09:36:50 AM
I got 4. I'll do one reel and you can use the other 2.

I'll experiment with a Curado 201iHG. If you use them try them in a reel you use for your heaviest use.

For me that would be a Curado 201 XG. Considering the reel you are looking to test is the same, what are your thoughts on a 71 XG? I know it is a lighter-duty reel, but I'm curious how the bearings perform for power-finesse applications. By that I mean using very light baits around heavy cover with a heavy rod. Not that I am punching into mats, but I am pitching and casting into pads and hydrilla. Does that make any sense?

Yes it does make sense Z. The weight of these bearings is on par with full ceramics, but the ceramics have a very low surface friction and spin easily. The glass bearing on polymer races may have more startup and running friction. It should operate similar to ceramics as far as lure weights go. I was more concerned with load bearing and durability.

I'll give you a set and you can put them in any of your reels.

Hey Z how about giving us a bearing report?

Does anyone remember these old Daiwa reels from the early to mid 1980's???

If anyone ever wondered where the T wing of today came from this reel would be it...

When you hit the cast button, both sides of the line guide pop to the outside so the spool can cast free from the line guide. When you start to reel, the gears pick up one side of the line guide and move it back to center, and once it returns to place, the gears pick up the other side of the line guide and move it into place before it starts going from side to side as any normal line guide would.

Did anyone actually use these reels???

The only reason I keep this one around is for conversation piece, but I also keep my black guide thread on this reel and only use it to feed out thread when I am wrapping guides on a rod.

(https://i.imgur.com/nEOhgY1.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ogF2mlu.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/MXvRpOX.jpg)

Bearings? Well...you may not like hearing some of this.

I can get that setup to throw weightless 4" tubes as far as I realistically need, but the bearings are so light and accelerate so fast they allow overruns at the end of the cast when there's wind. I pulled out all 4 pins, increased the tension, and increased the brakes to get rid of the wind/overrun issue. That reduced my distance to where it made no sense to use the bearings. I compensated for the lightness/speed of the bearings to get a consistent (but harder) cast and lost the easy casting and distance I want. Now, when I put on a 6" senko all that basically goes away and I can make the reel super loose which is great. For my main bait, these work great.

BUT, and it is a big butt, I can't get over the sound and the feel. The bast way I can explain it is it sounds like Fred Flintstone designed a Ferrari. It sounds like boulders are tumbling down a plastic bowling alley and they feel weak without actually being weak. I assume the races are causing both of these. It does not affect the performance of the bearing so the technology is going in the right direction. I just think the manufacturer may want to look at ceramic or stainless races to give customers an option to have the glass bearings without losing some of the weight that is critical in a casting reel.

Overall the glass/plastic are ok. They cast fine but they sound weird and take awhile to get dialed in. I'm not sure how the variables of my setup are contributing to getting that right - Loomis 6'6" heavy/moderate action, 40# PowerPro (I'm going to go up to 60# or so), Curado 201 XG. I'm too lazy to test every possible configuration with all my setups...12 rods, 5 reel types, various line sizes, countless baits, different hooks...nope...too lazy for that. But, if someone did have the time to go through all of that they could find the exact right configuration that is ideal for these bearings. However, I think a bearing for a mass market needs to work in any setup possible.

The full ceramics...died and went to heaven. These are flat out amazing and worth more than double the price of admission. I thought the hybrid (ceramic and stainless) bearings were amazing, but the full ceramics are the tits. These cast easy, amazingly far, and feel solid the entire length of the cast on both setups I have them on.

Falcon 7'2" Heavy fast action, Curado 71 XG, 40# PowerPro, 1/4 ounce tungsten weight, 5/0 heavy flipping hook

Falcon 7" Medium Heavy fast action, Curado 71 XG, #40 PowerPro, 1/8 ounce tungsten weight, 5/0 heavy flipping hook

These setups are almost the same because I'm looking to throw different size/weight baits into the same type of cover.

Hopefully I don't contradict myself in any of this. If so, I'll try to clarify.

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on June 12, 2018, 01:03:38 PM
Hey Z how about giving us a bearing report?

Does anyone remember these old Daiwa reels from the early to mid 1980's???

If anyone ever wondered where the T wing of today came from this reel would be it...

When you hit the cast button, both sides of the line guide pop to the outside so the spool can cast free from the line guide. When you start to reel, the gears pick up one side of the line guide and move it back to center, and once it returns to place, the gears pick up the other side of the line guide and move it into place before it starts going from side to side as any normal line guide would.

Did anyone actually use these reels???

The only reason I keep this one around is for conversation piece, but I also keep my black guide thread on this reel and only use it to feed out thread when I am wrapping guides on a rod.

(https://i.imgur.com/nEOhgY1.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ogF2mlu.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/MXvRpOX.jpg)

That's wild, very neat. And yes, they've been used. The funny little Daiwa that I had that drove me crazy with the squeaky handle knob before I figured it out and added a drop of oil, I found videos of people using the reel you pictured while trying to find some info on mine.

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Redux, you think they'll smooth out after some more use? Plastics/polymers do have some give, and any imperfections in the races may eventually get smoothed out. If that happens though, I'd be worried they could loosen.

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SHC I was thinking the same thing. These bearings were new out of the box. No break in at all.

I would put them on a spin jig and break them in good and then try them. However, they should improve in performance once broken in good.

And Z is saying that right now as they are out of the box he can not crank down enough on them to prevent over runs. That says a lot right there.

The potential for these bearings is there.

Adding a little oil might help too.

Thanks z for trying them out!

Does anyone have a complete side plate for a Shimano Curado CU-201BSF ??

We just got in a reel missing the entire side plate. Not even going to touch this one until I get a side plate for it.

None on ebay right now. Not even a complete reel. These are fairly rare these days... and the customer dropped the side plate into a lake somewhere...

a nearly 30 year old reel still working... well it was until the side plate went overboard.

Bag it!

(https://i.imgur.com/jtlzauY.jpg)

Well I just tried a regular curado B side plate and it fits perfectly but the color is different. The only way to fix this reel right now is either wait on the right side plate to magically appear, or go with a side plate of a different color.

We will have to let the customer make this decision...

(https://i.imgur.com/KI2NirN.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/hIcQ7Kz.jpg)

I have a reel with a mismatched side plate, when I palm it the side plate can't be seen and when not in use it's covered, nobody sees the little freak and it works so I don't really mind! lo
Rodney

I dont see the problem....(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180614/dea84111ab7a6dbb45810caea66169b1.jpg)

<")))>{

Frankenreel!

Paint is always an option too.
The stuff I used on my Caenan is just now started to look a bit rough, but I didn't let it fully cure and I've put that reel through hell. It's been loaned, dropped, thrown in the lake, has had things dropped on it, and spends a lot of time rattling around in my trunk.

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Quote from: SteelHorseCowboy on June 14, 2018, 09:08:00 AM
Paint is always an option too.
The stuff I used on my Caenan is just now started to look a bit rough, but I didn't let it fully cure and I've put that reel through hell. It's been loaned, dropped, thrown in the lake, has had things dropped on it, and spends a lot of time rattling around in my trunk.

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You may want to think about armour plating for it.
Rodney

Quote from: Oldfart9999 on June 14, 2018, 02:16:16 PM

You may want to think about armour plating for it.
Rodney

Nah, that'd cost more than the reel. It's one of the pawn shop reels. Still great, although one of the arms is now broken off of the star drag.

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Quote from: SteelHorseCowboy on June 06, 2018, 09:05:38 AM
My pawn shop Caenan was missing the spring for the drag clicker when I bought it, so I just tossed the tiny pawl.
LMG's right, it makes no difference in operation, just removes the audible and tactile feedback when you adjust the drag.

Also, Lawrence, what kind of line are you trying to spool it with, and have you tightened the drag down? We've had anglers here on this forum with years of experience who have thought they'd broken their reels after mistakenly trying to spool braided line and forgetting to use a backing, AND after trying to spool their reels with the drag backed off almost completely.
These are understandable mistakes and can happen to anyone.

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It was just mono. I've sent the reel off to Mike and he mentioned something about some parts being put together wrong.  It's already on the way back to me. Hopefully I'll be reeling in bass with it in no time.


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I'm sure that reel will be as good as new when you get it back!

I just finished this curado BSF frankenreel. The customer said go with the side plate we have so the reel was complete disassembled and rebuilt and is now like new. It has worked well for more than 25 years and he can probably get another 25 out of it!

(https://i.imgur.com/nnvDvjf.jpg)

And guys, be careful putting your spools into your reels if you have old style centrifugal brakes! I had to tell a customer the bad news his reel is now junk because he ruined the centrifugal brake pins by shoving the spool into the reel housing without retracting the brake shoes so he bent every pin down towards the spool binding up the brake shoes and he wondered why it does not free spin any longer...

(https://i.imgur.com/ZWYFjn8.jpg)

Ok without going thru all 233 posts can anyone give me a review on the new Curado K reels. The reviews I've read say it's a a good reel but if any of you guys have one I'd like see what you think. I have 2 G models and love them.


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Quote from: WTodd on June 25, 2018, 03:36:41 PM
Ok without going thru all 233 posts can anyone give me a review on the new Curado K reels. The reviews I've read say it's a a good reel but if any of you guys have one I'd like see what you think. I have 2 G models and love them.


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I don't believe there is a review in this thread, it's mostly like a "Strangest things seen in the ER" type of thread. Only in this case, "things seen in the repair shop". And a little smack talk.

I have the Curado K XG. I love it, but I don't have much to compare it too. It holds a lot of line, it's easy to use. Not super friendly towards lightweight lures but it's manageable. Comes from the factory with the spool bearings packed so full of grease it kinda kills the casting distance. Clean those out and you're GTG.
The XG with the 8.5:1 gear ratio has the longer handle, which has absolutely spoiled me.
Nice and smooth. Pair it with a good rod and line, I'm using a 7'3" Curado M rod and Sufix 832, and it practically paints a picture of everything in the water.

Best investment I've made in fishing gear, so far.

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I need to replace my Citica that has been a work horse that I use fishing flukes; I literally use it a TON. I MAY take my 7:1:1 G7 model (that I currently use for flipping/frogs) and use it to replace my Citica and then get either a 7:4:1 or 8:3:1 to use for flipping/frogs. If I do this I'm considering getting my first left handed reel; should make flipping easier.

Thoughts?


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Why not have the Citica gone through? There are several folks here that can make it better bthan new.
Rodney

Get a professional to go over the reel. Whatever you love about the reel will come back with proper servicing.

All my reels are lefty. I can't fish with right-hand reels. My left arm isn't wired to handle a rod during the retrieve. I can cast left-handed when I need to but when I switch my hands back to the reel it feels like a clunky process to position my rod. Lefty allows me to complete my cast with the rod in the "set" position and with my hand on the reel.

There's been plenty of times when fish take my bait as soon as it hits the water. Including spinner baits, worms, jigs, top water, etc. and if I was switching hands I'd have missed the hook set because my rod wasn't in the set position. Sure, it doesn't happen every time, but when it does I'm glad I don't have to switch hands and possibly lose fish.

Righty for me is cast, switch hands, put my hand on the reel, and then position the rod, . Too many steps IMHO. But if it works for you, don't change.

The same thought process for using left-handed reels for flipping/pitching works for me in every other application.

Quote from: SteelHorseCowboy on June 25, 2018, 04:00:05 PM
I don't believe there is a review in this thread, it's mostly like a "Strangest things seen in the ER" type of thread. Only in this case, "things seen in the repair shop". And a little smack talk.

Yep! Just an FYI thread and nothing more or less.

And I agree with Z and Rodney about overhauling the citica. It can work like new again... Oh and too cool we just got in the mail a box of reels to repair from the Sultan of Qatar! The ruling family of Qatar chose our shop to repair their reels.

And Z, taking your boat in today for service made me a little late to work and when I walked into the shop I was told gee Kent you are too late for the new Italian made fishing line. Huh?

Apparently some new Italian line company sent our shop a large box of sample lines and everyone plundered the box before I got to the store so I missed out on all the new line samples. I am going to pressure someone for some of this 30 pound blue braid...

Apparently this company is looking to break into the U.S. market and are targeting various industry people to try their line samples hoping I would bet to get some good reviews.

(https://i.imgur.com/ySs7WvB.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/OPUOfux.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/bjqJQNH.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/NJUgqIK.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/1ckZNQK.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/wZZt86D.jpg)

Redux, I had to train myself to pitch left handed. Had the same issue you're having with coordination between strong hand/off hand, except throw in some other issues as well.
On a long cast I cast right handed and can switch hands and grip before the lure hits the water, but now I can't pitch right handed when I try.
I am strongly considering, over time, eventually switching to left handed bait casters. That takes money I don't have right now, and I tend to hold on to things that work. Having several spinning reels now, including one of which is apparently lefty only, I've learned to retrieve lefty. Caused some minor damage to one of my favorites by swapping the handle to the right, so now I just rock 'em on the left.
But then I'd have to retrain myself to pitch righty. Can't win for losin.

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Well, FFF, no good deed goes unpunished. You don't want some junky experimental line anyway.  ~roflmao

SHCB, we all have our limitations. Adjusting to right v left baitcasters is a pretty nice problem to have in the grand scheme of things. I tried a righty reel for a couple hours and nearly tossed it in the water before exchanging it for a lefty. Some things aren't worth changing.

Quote from: Oldfart9999 on June 26, 2018, 06:12:01 AM
Why not have the Citica gone through? There are several folks here that can make it better bthan new.
Rodney

This is part of the plan. Because I do so much fluke fishing, I really needed to upgrade reels; I need more horsepower so to speak. The Citica still has a lot of life left but for other than single hook baits and will be even better when I get someone in the board to beef it up.


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I missed the bit where you said you need a faster reel. Can't you get higher ratio gears for the Citca instead of replacing the entire reel?

I would think you can replace the gears but I'm not 100% sure. Besides adding a 6th rod & reel on the boat just gives me more options.


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Quote from: redux on June 26, 2018, 02:50:32 PM
I missed the bit where you said you need a faster reel. Can't you get higher ratio gears for the Citca instead of replacing the entire reel?

Quote from: WTodd on June 26, 2018, 03:03:01 PM
I would think you can replace the gears but I'm not 100% sure. Besides adding a 6th rod & reel on the boat just gives me more options.


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Its no use, redux, just leave it alone. It's obvious that the bait monkey has WTodd in his clutches lo lo lo

Oh, WTodd, I found a couple reviews for you.

[URL]https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eultimatebass%2Ecom%2Fbass-fishing-forum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D137068%2E0&share_tid=137068&share_fid=24712&share_type=t[URL]

[URL]https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eultimatebass%2Ecom%2Fbass-fishing-forum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D137486%2E0&share_tid=137486&share_fid=24712&share_type=t[URL]



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Quote from: WTodd on June 26, 2018, 02:37:45 PM
This is part of the plan. Because I do so much fluke fishing, I really needed to upgrade reels; I need more horsepower so to speak. The Citica still has a lot of life left but for other than single hook baits and will be even better when I get someone in the board to beef it up.


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If its an E series, you have 5,6, and 7 speed gears from a Curado E that will fit.

The reel I'm looking to have some work done on is a Citica not a Curado. As soon as I get the new Curado I'd like to send the Citica to you for evil so you can tell me what can be done to it


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Quote from: WTodd on June 27, 2018, 03:07:54 PM
The reel I'm looking to have some work done on is a Citica not a Curado. As soon as I get the new Curado I'd like to send the Citica to you for evil so you can tell me what can be done to it


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If its an E series, the Citica and Curado are basically the same reel. I have a Citica with Curado sideplates and Curado E7 gears. Those 2 reels have always been damn near identical.

They feel the same physically in my hand but not when I get a fish on. Curado feels much smoother


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Quote from: WTodd on June 27, 2018, 04:01:28 PM
They feel the same physically in my hand but not when I get a fish on. Curado feels much smoother


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Again, what model Curado, and what model Citica?

All 3 (2 Curados & 1 Citica) are all G models and I just ordered a K model. I've no issues with any of the 3 but Citica needs some sprucing up


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Quote from: SteelHorseCowboy on June 27, 2018, 09:27:31 AM
Oh, WTodd, I found a couple reviews for you.

[URL]https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eultimatebass%2Ecom%2Fbass-fishing-forum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D137068%2E0&share_tid=137068&share_fid=24712&share_type=t[URL]

[URL]https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eultimatebass%2Ecom%2Fbass-fishing-forum%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D137486%2E0&share_tid=137486&share_fid=24712&share_type=t[URL]



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Thanks; these reviews are in line with everything else I've read


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Quote from: WTodd on June 27, 2018, 04:12:04 PM
All 3 (2 Curados & 1 Citica) are all G models and I just ordered a K model. I've no issues with any of the 3 but Citica needs some sprucing up


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OK, yeah, the G series was an off series by Shimano. I had a Citica G. Changing the bushing on the driveshaft to a bearing makes a big difference, but honestly, other than that they are close to the same reel internally. When you are ready, we can do some magic to it. Gear sets may be hard to come by, but I will look around at my vendors. You are using LH or RH reels? 200=RH, 201=LH.

All RH; only planning on the Citica right now BUT when the time comes I'll the Curados as needed


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Question about the new K model; the reviews I've read say they come with a lot of grease; how easy is it to clean some of it out?


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Quote from: WTodd on June 27, 2018, 04:24:10 PM
Question about the new K model; the reviews I've read say they come with a lot of grease; how easy is it to clean some of it out?


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Its mostly the bearings you have to worry about the "grease", and an easy fix at that by dropping in some better bearings.

Quote from: WTodd on June 27, 2018, 04:21:31 PM
All RH; only planning on the Citica right now BUT when the time comes I'll the Curados as needed


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Cake man, cake....

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on June 27, 2018, 04:27:40 PM
Its mostly the bearings you have to worry about the "grease", and an easy fix at that by dropping in some better bearings.

I'll keep that in mind...thanks


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Quote from: LgMouthGambler on June 27, 2018, 04:28:01 PM
Cake man, cake....

I heard you're pretty good with them. Can you IM your address to me and I'll send the Citica when my new K model shows up?


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Quote from: WTodd on June 27, 2018, 04:31:23 PM
I heard you're pretty good with them. Can you IM your address to me and I'll send the Citica when my new K model shows up?


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Sure. No problemo.

Quote from: cport on June 27, 2018, 08:44:28 AM
Its no use, redux, just leave it alone. It's obvious that the bait monkey has WTodd in his clutches lo lo lo

Poor fella. He was good ol' boy.

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on June 27, 2018, 04:27:40 PM
Its mostly the bearings you have to worry about the "grease", and an easy fix at that by dropping in some better bearings.

I soak mine in mineral spirits for a while and then spin them on a knitting needle. Repeat as necessary. Mine had just about enough grease in just the spool bearings to service the whole damn reel. I think I posted a pic in one of those threads I linked.
Dropping in better bearings would be quicker, easier, and a better fix. There are videos on youtube specifically of the K model before and after upgrading the bearings. I don't know if "before" means cleaned factory bearings or as they come greased by the factory, but I can tell you just by watching the videos the spool spins longer and easier than my cleaned ones after upgrades.
Only reason I haven't upgraded the bearings is because... I have no good reason, I'm just a cheapskate.

Upgrading every bearing and handle on every baitcaster I have is on my list, but the bearings and handles I want would cost enough to buy at least one more Curado, maybe another one and another nice rod. But I'd want an HG or regular K next, which means I'd also have to get a new handle for those.

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Quote from: redux on June 27, 2018, 08:25:43 PM
Poor fella. He was good ol' boy.

Yeah, I might ruin him too.  ~roflmao

~beer~

I recently did a quick fix on a Daiwa Exceler 100SH. Definitely one of Daiwa's cheaper reels made in China. Made so cheaply that cranking down on the cast control knob and the side plate on opposite side pushed out.

(https://i.imgur.com/SGfaFN5.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/z1VmhFi.jpg)

Notice left side plate pushing out when cast control knob is tightened opposite side?
(https://i.imgur.com/SUYjE9s.jpg)

Rusted and pitted part of the AR bearing inside Daiwa:

(https://i.imgur.com/HRyDv7n.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/JA2VEJ7.jpg)

Just finished putting some Italian ice braid on my old curado... ready to rock!

(https://i.imgur.com/ABQXeHs.jpg)
(//)

We love reels like this! Brought into our shop in pieces in bags. He did half the work for us!

(https://i.imgur.com/yk7lqh4.jpg?1)

Here's another stradic 4000FG brought into our shop after the owner tried to fix it himself at home. He wound up destroying his worm gear because he did not repair the frozen up pawl and oscillation block:

(https://i.imgur.com/9Cs4qLJ.jpg)

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on June 29, 2018, 01:50:34 PM
We love reels like this! Brought into our shop in pieces in bags. He did half the work for us!

(https://i.imgur.com/yk7lqh4.jpg?1)

I hope you charged extra for that job.  lo lo

Quote from: Lipripper on June 29, 2018, 01:55:19 PM
I hope you charged extra for that job.  lo lo

You know Lip those are the easy ones... as long as all the parts are in there... it is the salty dogs we should be charging more for.

I just cracked open a Shimano Calcutta 250 that has never been serviced since the day it was purchased new. And then used in saltwater and used until the reel came to a grinding halt- literally.

(https://i.imgur.com/WDVeqHy.jpg)

Just look at that rust! This reel was full of beach sand and seashells too...

(https://i.imgur.com/j6pn01m.jpg)

Dang that would be like me not taking a bath for a couple of months after playing in the sandbox.  :shocking:

It took 20 plus years for this one Lip! Not bad really considering some of today's cheap crappola reels don't last a year or two without saltwater and beach sand...

Just finished up a Curado 200i HG... I like the new friction plate Shimano added under all the gears and mechanisms... curado i on left and older Curado 200E7 on right that did not come with an added friction plate. Its called a clutch guard, but also serves as a reduction of friction plate under the clutch. In the older curado reels everything went right up against the frame.

(https://i.imgur.com/A9KC3B2.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/GVXjoTs.jpg)

This reminds me... time to service my own reels... ugh! Hey the boss just left... time to go fishing!

Just found out Chinese and Japanse Shimano engineers will be here on Thursday and I am suppose to clean up my bench... Yeah right.

I wonder if it is true about Shimano possibly going to produce a Curado DC reel!

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on June 29, 2018, 02:16:53 PM
It took 20 plus years for this one Lip! Not bad really considering some of today's cheap crappola reels don't last a year or two without saltwater and beach sand...

Just finished up a Curado 200i HG... I like the new friction plate Shimano added under all the gears and mechanisms... curado i on left and older Curado 200E7 on right that did not come with an added friction plate. Its called a clutch guard, but also serves as a reduction of friction plate under the clutch. In the older curado reels everything went right up against the frame.

(https://i.imgur.com/A9KC3B2.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/GVXjoTs.jpg)

This reminds me... time to service my own reels... ugh! Hey the boss just left... time to go fishing!

Just found out Chinese and Japanses Shimano engineers will be here on Thursday and I am suppose to clean up my bench... Yeah right.

If the boss left for the weekend yelp it's time ot go fishing.  ;D

Quote from: Lipripper on June 29, 2018, 02:19:39 PM
If the boss left for the weekend yelp it's time ot go fishing.  ;D

Yep! I'm outta here!

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on June 29, 2018, 02:38:17 PM
Yep! I'm outta here!

Don't let the door hit you in the rear on the way out.  ;D

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on June 29, 2018, 02:16:53 PM

I wonder if it is true about Shimano possibly going to produce a Curado DC reel!

Yep, its coming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy6fYpK1zhY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy6fYpK1zhY)

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on June 28, 2018, 09:04:22 AM
Yeah, I might ruin him too.  ~roflmao

~beer~

TBD Gambler


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Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on June 29, 2018, 02:16:53 PM

I wonder if it is true about Shimano possibly going to produce a Curado DC reel!

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on June 29, 2018, 02:50:17 PM
Yep, its coming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy6fYpK1zhY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy6fYpK1zhY)

Here is Tactical Bassin's review; they got ahold of a couple:
https://youtu.be/7Q9_5SuLP-8

And here is a place you can pre-order via our sponsor
https://www.outdoorproshop.com/Shimano-Curado-DC-150-p/shimano-curadodc.htm (https://www.outdoorproshop.com/Shimano-Curado-DC-150-p/shimano-curadodc.htm)

Thanks! Looks like a curado DC is in my near future!

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on June 29, 2018, 04:58:53 PM
Thanks! Looks like a curado DC is in my near future!

You back from fishing already  ;D

Quote from: Lipripper on June 29, 2018, 05:00:44 PM
You back from fishing already  ;D

The door hit me on the way out... In the form of rain and lightning. Decided not to roll the dice trying to catch fish while holding graphite lightning rod. Now I'm just wishin' I was fishin'.

FFF, we should be able to get a good look at the DC at icast. Actually, I'm a little afraid that they have a herd of monkeys roaming the halls.

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on June 29, 2018, 05:43:10 PM
The door hit me on the way out... In the form of rain and lightning. Decided not to roll the dice trying to catch fish while holding graphite lightning rod. Now I'm just wishin' I was fishin'.

Don't blame ya there I will fish in the  ~rain but not when it's (https://imageshack.com/a/img923/6141/cE7ci0.gif) (https://imageshack.com/i/pncE7ci0g) out.

Quote from: redux on June 30, 2018, 06:17:14 AM
FFF, we should be able to get a good look at the DC at icast. Actually, I'm a little afraid that they have a herd of monkeys roaming the halls.

Them dang (https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/hPHTpk.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmhPHTpkj) are the fist in line to get in one of them places. Heck I think they have a VIP pass and get in before the doors open.  lo lo

Ok initial review of the Curado K (7:4:1 gears).  Just got it, spooled it and took it to the retention ponds near the house. This is one smooth reel. The retrieve just glides. Adjustments are simple enough; it has 2 brake adjustments, 1 inside & 1 out. Adjusting the interior brakes is simple but I wish it had 6 brakes (older models) instead of 4 but the exterior adjustment should help me fine tune the brakes; I'm close right now. Still need to finalize the drag (only caught 1 fish so small sample size) but am closer than I was. With all the talk about the larger handle I was actually worried until I got it in my hands; its bigger than previous models but I like the larger size. I may have to put larger ones on my other Curados now

Out of the box I'd give it an 8.5 (right now I have no issues with it) but only because I need to catch some larger fish to see how it handles. After I get to use it for real I'll report back.


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Quote from: WTodd on June 30, 2018, 03:15:59 PM
Ok initial review of the Curado K (7:4:1 gears).  Just got it, spooled it and took it to the retention ponds near the house. This is one smooth reel. The retrieve just glides. Adjustments are simple enough; it has 2 brake adjustments, 1 inside & 1 out. Adjusting the interior brakes is simple but I wish it had 6 brakes (older models) instead of 4 but the exterior adjustment should help me fine tune the brakes; I'm close right now. Still need to finalize the drag (only caught 1 fish so small sample size) but am closer than I was. With all the talk about the larger handle I was actually worried until I got it in my hands; its bigger than previous models but I like the larger size. I may have to put larger ones on my other Curados now

Out of the box I'd give it an 8.5 (right now I have no issues with it) but only because I need to catch some larger fish to see how it handles. After I get to use it for real I'll report back.


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Happy to hear you are enjoying your new reel Walt.

I forgot to add that this reel is replacing my fluke reel so casting a weightless fluke is everything; it passed the test, I can cast it as far as I want.


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Quote from: WTodd on June 30, 2018, 03:15:59 PM
Ok initial review of the Curado K (7:4:1 gears).  Just got it, spooled it and took it to the retention ponds near the house. This is one smooth reel. The retrieve just glides. Adjustments are simple enough; it has 2 brake adjustments, 1 inside & 1 out. Adjusting the interior brakes is simple but I wish it had 6 brakes (older models) instead of 4 but the exterior adjustment should help me fine tune the brakes; I'm close right now. Still need to finalize the drag (only caught 1 fish so small sample size) but am closer than I was. With all the talk about the larger handle I was actually worried until I got it in my hands; its bigger than previous models but I like the larger size. I may have to put larger ones on my other Curados now

Out of the box I'd give it an 8.5 (right now I have no issues with it) but only because I need to catch some larger fish to see how it handles. After I get to use it for real I'll report back.


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Thanks for the review Walt and sounds like once you get that little adjustment figured out and tuned in you will be all set.  ~c~

I wish it had six blocks too. There are times when 2 on just ain't enough, and 4 is a bit much, but I just can't hardly force myself to use three and just leave that one lonely little fella disengaged.

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If you're referring to the K model, have you tried adjusting the exterior brake dial? It's hard to adjust (probably so you can't accidentally move the dial). I think I still need to tweak mine a tad but like I said I'm close right now.


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Quote from: WTodd on July 01, 2018, 08:13:33 AM
If you're referring to the K model, have you tried adjusting the exterior brake dial? It's hard to adjust (probably so you can't accidentally move the dial). I think I still need to tweak mine a tad but like I said I'm close right now.


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Yep. What I haven't tried, is cranking the dial way up with just two blocks. Furthest I've gone with it is "5". Reason why is because like you mentioned, the dial is very stiff. But so you know, it does lighten up with use.
When I first got mine, it took some effort to turn it from "1" to "2", and I had to dig my thumbnail into the ridges to move it to "3". Now I can roll it from "1" to "4" with very little effort, and it's actually located in a spot where I've yet to move it unintentionally.
I can engage all 4 blocks, turn the dial down to "1" or "2" and back the spool tension off to toss light weights, just seems reluctant to let it fly.

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Quote from: WTodd on June 30, 2018, 03:15:59 PM
  Still need to finalize the drag (only caught 1 fish so small sample size) but am closer than I was.

I can attest to the quality of the drag. My drag was set fairly light on my K from catching smaller cookie-cutter size fish earlier in the morning, when I saw what would become my PB on a bed. When she took it, 11 lbs of PO'd bass just started peeling drag. Smooth and easy. But here's the best part. When I recovered my senses, I slammed down the star, and that drag stopped her in her tracks, and I brought her in relatively easy after that. I was very, very impressed.

Glad you like the curado Chris!

Right now our shop is cranking out some older Shimano stradic reels customers brought into our shop. And you gotta love the customers insistence on "I never opened the reel!!!" We hear it all the time...

And here is how we know...

Deep in the older stradics we find this:

(https://i.imgur.com/TNQfhrB.jpg)

And on a customer's reel we find this on the pawl:

(https://i.imgur.com/n1bu2o2.jpg)

Parts are reversed! Busted!

The shim is not even listed as a part on the schematic. This is one of those fine adjustments made for each reel.

Some stradics will have 2 or 3 shims.

This is really a critical mistake on the owner's part because the hole in these two parts are NOT the same size!

It is critical because this pawl spins inside the grey plastic bushing which aligns the pawl for proper worm gear tracking. Putting a part with a larger hole at the critical pivot point allows the pawl to slop around- move around outside of design parameters and could bind up the reel if too loose!

(https://i.imgur.com/Mgm6k95.jpg)

It should be very clear the grey bushing is first on the pawl which is designed to fit each other perfectly...

(https://i.imgur.com/tEoOad6.jpg)

This is how it is suppose to be inside the reel:

(https://i.imgur.com/431aQB9.jpg)

Don't forget the bearing spacer underneath the pinion bearing...

(https://i.imgur.com/qST4io0.jpg)

Also, don't put this screw in any other place on the reel. This is a special made shimano only locking screw that rachets into place to keep the line guide tight so it wont loosen up on its own while fishing.

(https://i.imgur.com/qCNma7d.jpg)

I hope these boxes are still on my bench when Shimano engineers show up from ICAST. I gotta search all of these drive gears and more trying to find a match to get an older stradic working again.

Ugh! I'm going to lunch. This can wait until my belly is full.

(https://i.imgur.com/yRHK0MU.jpg)

Success! This reel was promised out today so it looks like we made this deadline... Oh, and you see those numbers stamped into the drive gear? Not part numbers... it is a separate in house shimano numbering system we use to cross link parts with other reels... when the part numbers on the schematics become useless...

(https://i.imgur.com/a8zJVjU.jpg)

Another 20 plus year old Shimano Stradic 4000FG is back in business and almost as smooth as new with the used gears installed. Gears have not been available for this reel for more than a decade.

(https://i.imgur.com/b22zJ8C.jpg)

And now right behind the 4000FG I am moving on to a Stradic 4000FH one of my favorite series of stradics...

Nice to have some high schools kids trained on cleaning reels to make our job faster big time!

(https://i.imgur.com/JO7foMr.jpg)

Just found out the Shimano engineers just left ICAST and are on their way here. Looking forward to asking them about possibility for older parts being made again. I know they do it sometimes when demand is high enough like it has been on the older curado reels.

The Shimano executives were here while I was assembling this old Stradic reel. The Shimano executives picked it up and passed it around talking about how much they like the color and finish of this older stradic and that they would like to bring this color back in the line up.

Another 20 plus year old stradic is back in the fishing game smooth as new!

(https://i.imgur.com/M8Dc6uc.jpg)

This thread is done... no time to continue... kids are priority

That old old stradic is a sharp looking reel. have fun at ICAST.

Here's a strange one I found in a thrift store. And left in the thrift store... don't even know what this gimmick reel is. But it has a range finder? Yeah right!

(https://i.imgur.com/apq4xhq.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZuHPuYo.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/UsVok6O.jpg)

How about a pflueger reel used in saltwater??? Who knows, maybe if they changed the shape of the aluminum it wouldn't corrode! Ha!

Needless to say it but this one went into the trash. Can't fix it when the parts inside are dissolving into dust and rust!

Talk about using a reel until it grinds to a halt! This is it!

(https://i.imgur.com/rK7PoMd.jpg)

I think this one is a pflueger trion. Complaint was thumb bar was not engaging from cast mode. Reel stayed in cast mode.

Opened her up and found this:

(https://i.imgur.com/P8jL4DT.jpg)

Problem: customer opened reel and tried to service himself. And when reassembling the reel he put this one spring in upside down. This spring has a long end and a short end. The long end goes into the frame and is designed to keep spring perpendicular to the frame. The short side allows the spring to move around and get out of place as seen here.

A quick fix. Turn spring over and close up reel. Next...

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on September 11, 2018, 03:21:56 PM
Here's a strange one I found in a thrift store. And left in the thrift store... don't even know what this gimmick reel is. But it has a range finder? Yeah right!

(https://i.imgur.com/apq4xhq.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZuHPuYo.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/UsVok6O.jpg)

I would have bought that just to tell folks, "Hey, look at this chit here..."

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Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on September 11, 2018, 03:21:56 PM
Here's a strange one I found in a thrift store. And left in the thrift store... don't even know what this gimmick reel is. But it has a range finder? Yeah right!

(https://i.imgur.com/apq4xhq.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZuHPuYo.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/UsVok6O.jpg)

Is that a vintage St. Croix Fishing Machine?

Quote from: cport on September 12, 2018, 06:25:24 AM
Is that a vintage St. Croix Fishing Machine?

Yes it is Chris! I just looked it up and will post some info on this historic little reel...

Here is a Shimano Curado 200E7 I just finished up. This one came in the door in pieces and missing all parts on main drive shaft as in no handle, no drag star, nothing. And the threads on the main drive shaft were destroyed by the owner.

This person already knew he was going to be into this reel for some parts, so he opted to just do a quick fix rather than a C&L on the reel, but I had to go deep into this reel so it got some good lubrication inside even if it did not get a deep cleaning. It got a Q tip cleaning just so I could work on it.

It had a rusty spool bearing, and a destroyed AR pawl too. Another attempt at DIY at home and the big fail. The owner was not a happy camper bringing us this reel driving all the way from Lake Wales 2 hours away just to get his reel fixed.

He even opted for a used handle rather than new... but she looks good now! And is as smooth as ever...

(https://i.imgur.com/TmpW6q4.jpg)

Next on the bench is a Shimano Chronarch MGL 150XG

Just came out of the sonic cleaner... nothing wrong with this one. Just dirty and needing a good C&L.

(https://i.imgur.com/3tKxmGs.jpg)

I found a little bit online about the old St. Croix telescoping rod and reel setup... it dates from around 1976 and sold new for about $25.00.

Here is one person's description of how the range finder worked:

"In case anybody really wants to know, the depth/range finder
is pretty simple to use in theory.
Place the on and off lever in the off position, cast your line out
to the distance you want, let it sink to the depth you want, and move
the rangefinder lever to the on position. The reel will remember that setting. If you want to change locations, simply move the lever to the off position and repeat the steps over again."

Another blogger had this to say about it:

The St. Croix / Cosmo Fishing Machine
File this under " Cool Flea Market Finds " , or at least cool to me.

I had a chance to visit an extremely large flea market last weekend , and managed to pick up this cool little telescopic rod/reel combo. I've honestly never seen one before and was pretty intrigued. I could have wasted my five bucks on something else , but I just had to add this little guy to my collection.

There isn't really a ton of info online about these things , past expired eBay auctions and snippets of conversation buried in fishing and antiques forums , but I did manage to find out that they were made sometime around 1976. Mine is a Cosmo brand , but apparently they were also sold under the St. Croix name at some point. It's kind of a chicken or egg conundrum for me right now , since I'm not entirely sure whether St. Croix made them for Cosmo or Cosmo made them for St. Croix , though I suspect the latter.

Regardless , it's a neat little rod and reel. I would certainly rather take my chances with this 5 foot rod and surprisingly smooth reel , than I would with it's main (and more successful) competitor , the Ronco Popeil Pocket Fisherman. It kind of blows my mind that I've never seen one of these before , but I assume it was only made for a year or two in an attempt to steal some of Ronco's market , and then discarded after it couldn't compete with legendary late night infomercial king , Ron Popeil.

(https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-KLJ_HglSzwM%2FUEizKBg_DuI%2FAAAAAAAABJc%2FYzgOxdLWTqw%2Fs1600%2F100_2771.JPG&hash=bfde0b02c608d294c5aa39cae1d0f1b31209e267)

(https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-B-wGRBpAP1g%2FUEizNvpkxOI%2FAAAAAAAABJk%2FTbrhOfFv1k8%2Fs1600%2F100_2772.JPG&hash=ca9cb5214fffbad211ea9a17e9f91a9bde3ef03d)

(https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-xJPjA2h0QOU%2FUEizQlcIVvI%2FAAAAAAAABJs%2Fd30j6DxXzmA%2Fs1600%2F100_2773.JPG&hash=606475205f4a83f05ad0786bcc55686abcbb4677)

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on September 12, 2018, 12:49:22 PM

(https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-xJPjA2h0QOU%2FUEizQlcIVvI%2FAAAAAAAABJs%2Fd30j6DxXzmA%2Fs1600%2F100_2773.JPG&hash=606475205f4a83f05ad0786bcc55686abcbb4677)

Kewl beans. That one is in really good shape. Would seem to be a nice little collector's item.

Did the owner of the 200 E7 by any chance try to claim "my buddy swore he knew what he was doing"?

Just curious. I mentioned before that I've heard that so many times when someone dropped off a baggie of gun parts that I lost count.

Actually, the only person who was ever honest with me was my best friend, because he knew I'd call BS if he told me he let someone else work on his gun.
Speaking of, need to call another guy and let him know I've got the time to come C&L his collection. I'll get to play with a couple MGs!

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SHC I don't do front counter so I don't usually talk to the customers and hear their reel stories. So I have no idea what his story is. All I know is he would like for us to fix it for him for free and he was bitchin' about all the parts he had to replace and how much they cost.

But he is the one who took the reel apart and lost everything so he should not be venting our way for what he did. And it cost him $82.50 even after we cut the price of 2 parts in half for him. The drag star and handle were most expensive parts he lost. A new handle alone is $40.

The chronarch came out like new... I'm into a Stradic 2500Fi right now, one of my favorites of all time.

(https://i.imgur.com/9Nw3OFJ.jpg)

I believe that. If you recall, I never did any gunsmithing for profit, that's a legal gray area without asking permission from the government, and dark gray at that.
I had someone accuse me of trying to rip them off, and I was like, "Dude. You bought the parts I told you to get, and paid me a box of donuts."
I don't even like donuts.

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Quote from: SteelHorseCowboy on September 13, 2018, 04:05:07 PM
I believe that. If you recall, I never did any gunsmithing for profit, that's a legal gray area without asking permission from the government, and dark gray at that.
I had someone accuse me of trying to rip them off, and I was like, "Dude. You bought the parts I told you to get, and paid me a box of donuts."
I don't even like donuts.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

This is off topic, but dude, seriously, who doesn't like donuts? lo

Lol! True enough Chris! I think he was expressing more dissatisfaction with being paid in doughnuts... I know I would. Now if some customer paid me in sushi I'd be quite happy!

And no off topic in an open thread! Take it any where you want to Chris!

Just finishing up another Shimano stradic 2500Fi... another DIY fail at home...

First thing... don't spray your reels with a water hose after using them in salt water! The water pressure simply pushes the salt and water deeper into the reel causing even more problems! Wipe the reels off with Pledge lemon cleaner!

Shimano does not recommend spraying any of their reels with pressure water hoses!

And yet just about every single customer who walks into our shop with salt water reels ALWAYS tells us how they took great care of their reels and sprayed them off after every outing.

So how did this idea of rinsing reels get started anyway???

Regardless, this reel required some new bearings, replaced missing parts, and repair broken spool spring, and put the line guide roller parts back on reel in right places the customer messed up at home...

This is the order of parts I found in line guide... darn near completely backwards. This is a good way to lose a fish and get line caught in the roller when least welcome!

(https://i.imgur.com/uNaT6Rq.jpg)

A nasty rusted up bearing in line guide roller:

(https://i.imgur.com/iTqM2PG.jpg)

And according to the schematic I am missing RD6684:

(https://i.imgur.com/yGOkdU7.jpg)

New parts in stock on near 15 year old reel:

(https://i.imgur.com/PrXQDua.jpg)

Back in correct order and polarity for reassembly:

(https://i.imgur.com/uJK32VU.jpg)

Next, do you know how many people work on spinning reels and never touch the drag washers? I always check and lube them. This reel has never been serviced so these drag washers have not been lubricated since new nearly 15 years ago. So that is why it appears white and nearly dry...

(https://i.imgur.com/kD17z0C.jpg)

One last thing... a broken clicker spring inside spool:

(https://i.imgur.com/YeylH9R.jpg)

I had to pull used parts from an old spool:

(https://i.imgur.com/W7007Sq.jpg)

Repaired:

(https://i.imgur.com/qTfbkYt.jpg)

And another successful smooth stradic overhaul... I wish this one were mine!

(https://i.imgur.com/mVFIBm1.jpg)

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on September 14, 2018, 01:27:37 PM


And another successful smooth stradic overhaul... I wish this one were mine!

(https://i.imgur.com/mVFIBm1.jpg)

I know I loved my Stradic back in the day. Can't remember the model, but it was the white one with wood handle, circa early 2000's

Usually an FG or an FH Chris. My favorites are the FH's and Fi's... I keep some in my personal collection of reels at all times and always looking for more...

This is an old FG, did it look like this one or the next one an FH?

(https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi46.tinypic.com%2F2uj12yq.jpg&hash=8cde704c545eb8b5f56cb51419cfe47265d07958)

(https://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stripersonline.com%2Fcontent%2Ftype%2F61%2Fid%2F1535242%2Fwidth%2F1000%2Fheight%2F1000&hash=1f38490b36d3952271ba4e8783b24e262b7fc9ce)

These reels and this era is when the stradics earned their reputation!

(https://image.sportsmansguide.com/adimgs/e/7/74843m2_ts.jpg)

You jynxed me on the stradics Chris! Now I have 4 more to do today... the boss just dumped 4 more rush reels on me...

Fortunately we have someone doing the breakdown and cleaning so all I gotta do is reassemble them...

(https://i.imgur.com/cFkTbSP.jpg)

Just taking a look at this old reel, now 20 to 25 years old and it looks like brand spanking new inside... hardly used. Hard to believe.

(https://i.imgur.com/tHp4DlX.jpg)

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on September 14, 2018, 01:48:46 PM


Just taking a look at this old reel, now 20 to 25 years old and it looks like brand spanking new inside... hardly used. Hard to believe.

(https://i.imgur.com/tHp4DlX.jpg)

Mine was an FH, judging by those pics.

OOHHH, would love to have that one. Making do with a NASCI right now, maybe someday...

I legit don't like donuts. Too much sugar, too sticky, ooey gooey.
I'll eat 'em, but when it comes to junk food I'd rather have a bag of gummi bears.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I was over here thinking "Stradic... what's so special about those? I've got one in a desk drawer I don't use..."
DOH! Syncopate! Walmart special. Still damn nice for a $30 reel. Got mine at Dirt Cheap, missing part #3869, but still works just fine. The anti-reverse pawl doesn't rotate out of the way as fast as it should without it, so you hear a light click during the first revolution.
Good little light duty freshwater reel. And I'm one of the few people I believe who's a fan of the quickfire trigger. Also like how on this little reel, the bale does slam shut, but has a more subdued closure.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

A $30 stradic??? Unheard of! The curado and stradic are probably some of shimano's best selling reels of all time.

I like the quick fire spinning reels too. Presently I am looking for one for one of our members here who um is not fond of spinning reels and having the bail always return to the same top position would benefit him greatly in teaching his muscles operation memory he can transfer to regular spinning reels later on.

As to your syncopate...

7 Best Shimano Spinning Reel

1.Shimano Thunnus 6000 CI4 Saltwater Baitrunner Spinning Reel. ...
2.Shimano Stradic FK Spinning Reel, C5000XG. ...
3.Shimano Spirex RG Spinning Reel. ...
4.Shimano Sienna Spin Reel. ...
5.Shimano Syncopate 1000 Front Drag Spin Reel. ...
6.Shimano Curado E Reels. ...
7.Shimano Sahara Spinning Fishing Reel.

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on September 18, 2018, 02:45:03 PM
A $30 stradic??? Unheard of! The curado and stradic are probably some of shimano's best selling reels of all time.

I like the quick fire spinning reels too. Presently I am looking for one for one of our members here who um is not fond of spinning reels and having the bail always return to the same top position would benefit him greatly in teaching his muscles operation memory he can transfer to regular spinning reels later on.

As to your syncopate...

7 Best Shimano Spinning Reel

1.Shimano Thunnus 6000 CI4 Saltwater Baitrunner Spinning Reel. ...
2.Shimano Stradic FK Spinning Reel, C5000XG. ...
3.Shimano Spirex RG Spinning Reel. ...
4.Shimano Sienna Spin Reel. ...
5.Shimano Syncopate 1000 Front Drag Spin Reel. ...
6.Shimano Curado E Reels. ...
7.Shimano Sahara Spinning Fishing Reel.

Is your list in a specific order or just a random list of what you consider the best Shimano spinning reels?

Having owned both the Spirex and the Sahara (as well as the Stradic) I would personally rate the Sahara as a better real than the Spirex (and the Stradic the best of the 3).

I did like the double-paddle handle on the Spirex better though so I ended up buying some from Shimano and putting them on my Stradics and Saharas. Just never was a fan of the self-centering bail concept.

It's all personal opinion though. As they say  "one man's trash is another man's treasure".

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I did a google search of shimano's most popular reels. The list surprised me too. And it does appear to be in order.

Some of those older Sahara's are built like tanks. I still have a couple myself in use after 20 years. Works better now that it is broken in good.

I actually love and hate the self centering concept.
It seems sloppy, but convenient for the next cast. Especially great with the quickfire system. But I hate the way it seems to beat the reel.

I'll also point out this budget beast...
Shimano's TX4000. I LOVE IT. Wish I hadn't given mine to my oldest boy. Come to find out, he loves it too.
He took it with him working on the road, he's somewhere around Sioux City right now. Making decent money, decent enough he let his friend talk him into dropping about $250 on a nicer rod and reel combo.
He took it back, and put that $3 thrift store combo back in his truck.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180919/7a242a87871ce055dfbe7f5fb5ed608b.jpg)

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If it works it works SHC!

This past weekend I overhauled a new one to me... an old Daiwa A-160X spinning reel now about 40 years old.

(https://i.imgur.com/kzGKzFj.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/qkhClVh.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/j1NddcF.jpg)

This reel is built like a tank and will out last me by a long shot. It is a simple straight forward reel with very few internal parts...

(https://i.imgur.com/uZBMo1A.jpg?1)

Bail parts:

(https://i.imgur.com/GPEij2I.jpg)

One issue is this reel does not have a replaceable pinion gear. In this reel it is a pressed or hammered in part in the rotor.

(https://i.imgur.com/LthczOX.jpg)

Rotor held on with one steel clip:

(https://i.imgur.com/CjZpv0y.jpg)

Another issue with this reel is it is one of those clicker reels. So I found some old outboard fuel line and cut me a little rubber bumper I added to the lever to reduce the clicking some to make it less annoying.

(https://i.imgur.com/uLP6RbE.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ObHXqgm.jpg)

Another thing built to last forever is this old Daiwa teflon drag washer system...

(https://i.imgur.com/qDg9pnS.jpg)

Got the reel rebuilt and slapped some line on it and I put it on a $150 custom Kistler 7' spinning rod and tried it out. Found the speed is really slow like a 3 or a 4 speed ratio. Definitely a power reel. Lots of drag. Well built and precision reel.

Gonna keep this one for now...

Well after using this old clicker reel for a week or so now I can say it is changing how I fish with a spinning reel.

I find the clicking annoying so I turn off the AR and now I have to learn how to use the reel without the AR and it involves learning how to back reel. So this is interesting to learn...

This reel is also not a great casting reel and it seems to be related to the thickness of the spool edge on the front side.

I have an old Abu Mitchell clicking reel, very cool piece of gear and also very slow. But it doesn't have a long enough handle to take full advantage of that low ratio torque.

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Yeah SHC it is kind of weird using such an old slow speed reel. I crank and crank it and lure hardly seems to move. Lots of power in there though.

I made some pawn shop rounds yesterday and today. It is amazing how many broken rods- and I mean uselessly broken in half rods- are for sale in pawn shops.

I did come across one mint condition shiny as new 13 Fishing reel. A white origin lefty 8.1:1 speed. It was on a useless broken rod for $39. When I say useless for a broken rod, if it is suppose to be a 7' rod and only 5' or less is still there... It is a rod beyond repair to me.

I probably could have scored the reel for $25 . It sold new for $90. I passed it up but its still there... maybe...

Anyone in Orlando area can grab it cheap at cash America pawn on 436 semoran Blvd. Just south of university Blvd. Next to full sail college.

I made a nice score today with an Abu Silver Max 3 righty baitcaster in excellent condition on st. Croix rod for $10. I'll flip the reel in our shop for a little profit and get the rod for free.

SHC I was thinking about you today when I passed this up in a pawn shop for $20. I probably could have gotten it for $15, but I passed it up...

I could get maybe $20 for the rod and on ebay around $50.00 for the reel, so $20 was not a bad price. Aren't you a big fan of these round abu reels?

I use to flip a lot of these...

(https://i.imgur.com/Qi9JENH.jpg)

Huge fan of round Ambassadeurs. Not a fan at all of that handle though, the knobs get wobbly and stiff pretty easily.

And the rod is actually a halfway decent cheapo. Not great by any means, but by far not the worst out there.

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True, but these are quick money makers in my rod and reel shop. Get 'em cheap, do a quick reel overhaul and put it up for sale and make a quick couple of twenties.

People are always wanting a good combo on a quick buy here in central Florida.

I see these reels all the time and I use to jump on them, but not any more. Got too much other stuff to do which is why I have been slacking around here.

But as soon as I saw this reel I thought about you and your posts on reels like this one.

FFF, just curious. Does your shop know that you take pictures of customer's reels and post them on the internet? I'd be afraid that if I took my reel to your shop, you'd post all of my mistakes on the internet.

Why sure! I don't post names along with reels.

All anonymous reels! Unless it is one of mine...

I am posting some more tomorrow.

The reason I did this thread was just to show common problems and issues. I had hoped it would just be an informational thread. No one would be identified in any way, especially here.

First up is a quick fix twitchin' bar reel I am curious about. Turning the handle and the worm gear is not turning. All else "feels" OK. Reel looks like new, so I am curious what the fail is.

First reel on the bench just needed a bearing and cast control cap.

I think I dug up probably one of the last that we have to service these reels. These parts have not been made for years and years and not available from Shimano either. A BNT1487. I even did a quick check on ebay to see if the part was available there and it isn't.

But this one is back in business for another 20 years... A Citica CI-200, almost identical to the old curado B green bean series that made curado famous. Even some of the parts are identical and interchangeable...

But for the shims, I had to dig around to find some...

(https://i.imgur.com/OK39WYZ.jpg)

This next reel is a Daiwa MF100TSH. One of Daiwa's lower end reels with a retail price when new of right at $100 and now they are over priced on ebay at $40 used.

This one has a problem with the worm gear not working. And the customer wisely does not want to completely overhaul the reel, he only wanted the immediate problem with the worm gear fixed and nothing else. We call these a quick fix.

This one was fun to diagnose because nothing was obvious to the eye once opened up...

(https://i.imgur.com/sljRwab.jpg)

I started taking the handle off and noticed scratches around the handle nut... this indicated right off the get go someone had been inside of this reel.

I do appreciate how Daiwa puts these markings on the handle so we can properly align the nut for the cover...

(https://i.imgur.com/wnToN7w.jpg)

Removing the drag star and I found dark brown or almost black grease. Heavy, thick, paste of a grease that is not suppose to be there in this location... and it was all over the AR bearing too where it is not suppose to be.

Look at the ring of grease on inside of drag star and on drive shaft.

(https://i.imgur.com/RZjrgEL.jpg)

Opening the reel and I found excess grease slung around inside the reel. There is a line of useless grease on the inside of the cover. Sometimes people use too much grease!

And that black grease is on the AR bearing...

(https://i.imgur.com/kyewp8K.jpg)

Another minor issue I found inside the reel was a blob of factory type of grease on the spool's inductor and also inside the magnets. Clearly this blob of grease connects with each rotation and could slightly slow it down. So I cleaned it off. The inductor and magnets are suppose to be free and clear of grease and oil.

(https://i.imgur.com/d91g7ys.jpg)

The grease is also visible smeared around the inside ring in lower portion of photo. More than likely a manufacturing mistake no one corrected at the factory.

(https://i.imgur.com/aGScKkn.jpg)

Now to the problem of the reel. I bagged and tagged it before taking photos... but I had the schematic handy.

Whoever got into this reel lost a shim under the pawl cap #53. And it also appears someone tried putting the wrong pawl into this reel that was slightly longer than what should have been in there.

And because it was longer, if the person who owned this reel tightened down the pawl cap, it would bind up. So he tried using it by backing off the pawl cap and running it loose. But it did not work. The pawl was binding in the worm gear and jamming it up.

And when this reel's pawl and worm gear jammed, the owner kept cranking the handle destroying the worm gear assembly #47. The gear that snaps onto the worm gear was rounded on the inside, not the gear teeth which looked good. What broke was the plastic rounded out the inside of the gear and just spun on the worm gear. The whole worm gear assembly has to be replaced.

When I removed the pawl, the worm gear would turn. Put the pawl back in and it jammed up instantly. Wrong pawl and broken worm gear assembly.

(https://i.imgur.com/vs1gaBK.jpg)

Since these reels are kind of rare, we see maybe a handful each year, we don't invest in stocking all the parts for this reel, but they are still available from Daiwa.

I decided to write it up and bag the reel and let the customer decide if he wants to fix it because the price of this repair will be about equal to what the reel is being sold for on ebay used.

I want to give the customer the option of making this decision. Now if it was a $300 reel I would go ahead with it, but not one like this one. I don't want to order parts and then find out the customer does not want it fixed.

(https://i.imgur.com/3Hiadmu.jpg)

I use to own one of these reels because someone wanted a lefty repaired last year but never came to pick it up. I wonder why??? I tried using it one time just because I wanted to try this twitching bar gimmick. What a waste of time. I got rid of as fast as I could.

You gotta love it when these come in the door!

(https://i.imgur.com/8TiMyOC.jpg?1)

(https://i.imgur.com/ruOU1Ly.jpg)

Customer attempted to replace the worm gear himself. And that is where he ran into trouble... on this old Shimano Corsair. He even lost the pawl and pawl cap.

(https://i.imgur.com/TE0a1jt.jpg)

And 10 or 15 minutes later and a working Corsair again. No cleaning. No lube, but I did oil the spool bearings for him and cleaned up what I could from the outside. He'll get some more fishing out this one. Hopefully he'll stay out of it next time...  :-*

I'm not even going to charge the shop for this one. A freebie for the shop today...

(https://i.imgur.com/oiqgJCs.jpg)

The boss said jump on 3 abu revo3 STX reels. A rush order. Move them to the front of the line. Get 'em done ASAP! So I got to one of them this afternoon...

a filthy dirty reel! He is using braid heavy enough to tow a car. Must be dragging up all kinds of dirt into the reel because it was a mess.

And the insides was not any better. Found a missing spring washer under the drag star that tells me the customer was in this reel...

Black permanent marker on dark green line. I plead the 5th.

(https://i.imgur.com/d8B2liR.jpg)

Someone got inside this reel and used nasty grease on it! Thick, heavy, dark brown smelly petroleum grease like train bearing grease for heavy machinery gumming up the reel and slinging all over the inside of the cover.

(https://i.imgur.com/ool7mrB.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/6Xy05wa.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/hmEgKiU.jpg)

I removed all of this wrong grease and put the parts in the ultra sonic parts cleaner...

(https://i.imgur.com/VX3cIO2.jpg)

1 out of 3 down. Gotta run to get the kids from school. The other two revos will get done before lunch tomorrow. Speaking of lunch the boss is making homemade beef stew tonight and feeding all of us for lunch tomorrow.

Eww! Looks like earwax!


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Quote from: SteelHorseCowboy on November 15, 2018, 04:13:45 PM
Eww! Looks like earwax!

lol! It might be! Ear wax would probably work as well as this stuff!

Gotta love the do-it-yourselfer's grabbing whatever they have at home off the shelf and putting it into the reels!

I was scraping this junk out of the reel trying to get the bulk of it out before putting the contaminated parts into the ultra sonic cleaner. The fluid in the ultra sonic cleaner is not cheap, so we try and make it last as long as we can before changing it out, and so getting as much of this type of thing out of the reel before cleaning helps to save the shop some money, but I don't get paid one penny more for doing it.

Today I had an interesting thing happen... while I was sitting at the bench working on a reel the boss came from the front counter with a reel in hand and handed it to me and said here, this is now yours!

Well thanks, I think. Like I need another reel. It looks like one of those Chinese reels, but I could not find made in China anywhere on it. But it is in really good looking shape on the outside, but the bearings are rough as hell. And the drag is locked up.

So starting tonight at home I am going to rebuild this reel.

(https://i.imgur.com/wwWT0vg.jpg)

This reel is done. If it had been a mid-line Shimano or Daiwa and up, it would have needed a bunch of parts, all bearings including the AR bearing. But since it is a $35.00 reel brand new from China... I'm not going to put one part into it. I'm just going to rehab any bad bearings just to get it running and running right out the door to somewhere else.

It has a plastic frame. Tolerances are bad. Gaps. Bent metal. Not a quality reel. But it did have something you don't find in higher quality reels- this one has an all metal clutch. Shimano and Daiwa and others now use plastic for most of it of all of it.

Breakdown dead ahead...

Ugh! The dreaded Shimano baitrunner. One of the most feared spinning reels to work on... This reel can be a real challenge to repair technicians.... But once over the hump and you learn its secrets, then its not so bad... I had to replace all of the bearings in this reel because of rust. The rotor bearing was noisy, and the drive gear bearings, one of them rusted to a stop and was locked up.

(https://i.imgur.com/MciBuMB.jpg)

Well looky here... plenty of fresh water saturating the drag washers! This happens because people used pressurized water to rinse off their reels after going saltwater fishing! Shimano even says DON'T RINSE REELS!!! Wipe them off. Do not rinse because the water pressure actually pushes water and salt deeper into the reel which will cause more problems down the road and here is one of them!

You don't "lubricate" your drag washers with fresh water!   ^-^

(https://i.imgur.com/Fe2dKEM.jpg)

A few minutes later after assembling the reel, just before the exterior wipe down, I noticed the line lay on the spool is mostly to the front of the spool. And so I added a thin shim washer under the spool to help even out the line lay down the road. The customer may not even notice this slight difference...

(https://i.imgur.com/U9Fa9Xw.jpg)

One of our favorite customers showed up with a broken reel that took all of 5 minutes to fix. But the conversation was priceless! Talking to this tournament professional fisherman and lure manufacturer is a real hoot!

We love discussing fishing, weather, politics, lures, forum stuff... its all good! Ask this man one question and it might take an hour of discussion for the answer! But you'll get it.

We take care of him, and he takes care of us! As he was walking out going past me I asked where's our baggie? And he asked 5" or 8"? I said quantity over quality! 5". Guess I'll have to go see him for the baggie.

His brother is a retired tournament professional bass fisherman as well. He said one phone call is all it takes to set you up with a fishing trip with my brother out in Leesburg... I may take him up on that next spring.

(https://i.imgur.com/ICtmdez.jpg?2)

Just got this one in the mail. The owner tried replacing the old worn out worm gear himself and could not get it back together. He bent the frame taking it apart. He was one screw away from success.

An old Penn 920. Ticket says just put back together- and make it work...

(https://i.imgur.com/ie77kRt.jpg)

And 15 minutes later... a working reel...

(https://i.imgur.com/h90KgMx.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ix5WYm5.jpg)

This one just walked in the front door...

(https://i.imgur.com/MTBXBJz.jpg?1)

Got handed an old Penn 4500SS to reassemble. Found a destroyed main drive gear due to saltwater just eating the aluminum away like it was alka seltzer in water...

So I bagged this one up, put the gears on order and will get back into it once parts arrive in a week or so.

(https://i.imgur.com/VUD4781.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/cz3V3UA.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/q99cufZ.jpg)

And my last reel for the day, an old Shimano Stradic 2500FH. Love this series of stradics!

Just checked the ticket and it says C&L and find out what is wrong with reel. Hope nothing serious since parts are not available any longer...

(https://i.imgur.com/73BhEvX.jpg?1)

4:59. Made it just time!

(https://i.imgur.com/xaHQLFg.jpg)

Finally got in some Daiwa parts for this mag force twitchin' reel. As I recall the pawl was binding up and stripped out the inside of the plastic gear on the worm gear itself. Since it comes as an assembly, it all has to be replaced... worm gear assembly and pawl.

Old part on left, notice the steel is shiny and higher quality than the newer replacement part made of cheaper metal? And notice the distance the gear is or space seen between plastic gear and worm gear on the left? That space allowed the plastic to round out inside and no longer turn worm gear once pawl bound up.

Another thing to notice is that the new replacement part on the right appears to have a wider groove for the pawl to follow.

(https://i.imgur.com/W0kMZOu.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/9n5rfuV.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/HLFs6cY.jpg)

Just got this one next in line... a Daiwa Zillion lefty. I can not read the model number. All rubbed off. This one has clearly been used in saltwater as it shows corrosion all over, and a cracked side plate... I'll dig into this one tomorrow. Gotta pick boys up from school...

(https://i.imgur.com/FgvnsLX.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/8WdtuEM.jpg)

Zillion is a 100HLA. 6.3 ratio. Gold accents are 6 gears.

Thanks! This will make finding a schematic and parts numbers easier tomorrow.

SHC, where are you??? I've got a package for you... so let us hear from you soon!

OK, to the reels... I am a huge shimano fan, and a huge fan of the stradic line of reels- well, some of them anyway... My choice of preferred stradics are the FG, FH and FJ series and I stop right there and what I am about to show is why...

I have been servicing reels since I was a teenager some 40 years ago. Today I service reels for a Shimano/Daiwa warranty repair center and it is through working on reels every day that I learn which reels are built well and which ones have issues.

And the newer Shimano spinning reels have a drag design problem I avoid like the plague! I will not purchase any new Shimano spinning reels with this drag mechanism found inside of it because by design, it is chewing up drag washers very quickly...

Not much left to the top drag washer. Notice how it is chewed up around those 4 posts?

(https://i.imgur.com/Oow3doX.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/jYG2H4D.jpg)

Here is the heart of the drag design issue we have to repair almost every day in our shop...

(https://i.imgur.com/1ne895P.jpg)

Shimano's new drag mech in their spinning reels is not built as strong or as durable as their older drag mechs are.

The drag washers themself are smaller and thinner with less surface area for resistance.

So that is my first issue with this new design.

My older stradics have drag washers twice the thickness and wider with more surface area to present more resistance to the spool's ability to spin on the shaft.

So if I were to compare my older stradic drag washers with this newer design's drag washers, what I find is that by weight and by volume my older drag washers are nearly twice the weight and volume of the newer drag washers.

Next, this new design may look great on paper and work great in theory, but apparently the problem is in production.

The metal plates the drag washers sit in between on my older stradics are smooth, but this newer design shows four punched holes in one drag plate.

If every plate punched out was perfectly flat and smooth, this new design might work better and last longer. But it appears to me the downfall of this design is that the plate with the holes punched in it are not perfectly flat and have ever so slightly raised edges. And the posts on one plate is also partly to blame for this problem.

And, since this new design offers less physical resistance, users tend to crank the drag down even tighter to get it where they want it, but in the real world every fish that drags that top washer around and around under this punched out drag plate is actually chewing up that top drag washer.

So what does the end user do? Yep! You guessed it. They crank it down even more! And they do this because Shimano put less in there!

So as the end user cranks the drag down ever tighter, they are squeezing the drag washers flattening them out, and as they flatten out under the increasing pressure, they tend to squeeze out sideways, and in this design, when that happens, the edges of the drag washer comes into contact with the posts and punched holes which act like a saw blade cutting off the outer edges of the drag washer until there is nothing left of it to crank down on.

You know, when I service older stradics now 20 plus years old, their drag mechs are still intact and still working after 20 years. Not so with this new design.

If I ever were to add a newer shimano spinning reel to my arsenal, I would take out this type of drag mech, and replace it with the older type that lasts forever and works for 10 even 20 years without any servicing or maintenance.

The newer stradics are guaranteed to need servicing and much more often and this is part of the reason why.

ADDED:

The above destroyed drag washer is less than 2 years old. Here is a drag mech from a 20 plus year old stradic still in almost like new condition after over 20 years of use!

You can see the raised edges of the drag washers caused by compression or cranking the drag down tight. This is why a fisherman should always back off the drag pressure of every reel after each use. Never store a reel with the drag cranked all the way down!

(https://i.imgur.com/tmr1j7d.jpg)

One lasts forever, and one fails quickly. I've made my choice! No new stradics!

Now if this is not a Shimano design problem issue. I don't know what is.

Curious as to how many of you out there are using this newer Shimano drag mech?

Great, I just ordered my 1st Shimano reel, a CI4+2500...
I've been a Penn guy forever (550,4500ss) with miminal problems (bail wire).
So I can just order the older washers and they will fit right in there?
A little weight is nothing, I'm coming from the 4500ss.

Thanks for the info.

Quote from: muzz on December 23, 2018, 11:49:44 AM
Great, I just ordered my 1st Shimano reel, a CI4+2500...
I've been a Penn guy forever (550,4500ss) with miminal problems (bail wire).
So I can just order the older washers and they will fit right in there?
A little weight is nothing, I'm coming from the 4500ss.

Thanks for the info.

No sir, you can not just order up the older parts and install them into a spool of a newer reel. For one, the older stradic parts are no longer made. So finding parts is if'y.

When I said it was something I would do personally, it is because I can machine whatever parts I might need to do it myself.

It might involve resizing of metal drag plates, or key washers, as they are sometimes called. And it might include making custom drag washers as well, or in an easy process, just may involve cutting larger washers down to the size I need.

It might even include some spool machining as well.

It would be great if I could just swap out an older spool with the newer spool. But you know Shimano likes to make it so parts from one reel don't just swap over into other reels. It does happen, but generally overall it doesn't happen as much as I would like it to.

Changing out a drag mech is not as simple as swapping parts on a kitchen table!  :shocking:

Here is a newer stradic just serviced... Notice the parts list for this "newer" reel... includes internal plastic gears, new drag washers, and one bearing. I think this person was using this reel in saltwater which might have contributed to the extent of this service job. Usually they don't require this much, but the replaced drag washers only re-inforces the issue I showed above.

Kind of funny in that I can service a 20 plus year old stradic and all I gotta do is re-lube the original drag washers and they will last another 20 years. The newer stradics? No friggin' way! I think Shimano is counting on the extra service business and parts orders... like they planned it or something!

They had something that actually worked and worked well for decades and now this. Why Shimano??? Is profit more important than quality?

(https://i.imgur.com/OGiJrrE.jpg)

Here is something you don't want to see in any classic old Penn SS reel!

The person who owned this reel seemed to "think" that adding oil or grease, looks like oil, to a teflon drag washer was a good idea! NOT!

How it looked when it came apart:

(https://i.imgur.com/yKB7sd3.jpg?1)

And how it looks now going back together. Keep teflon dry! Teflon is already its own lubricant and does not need any added!

(https://i.imgur.com/NZXEVHS.jpg)

Fabulous...just fabulous..bah.
I've only owned 1 Shimano product over the years, a Tuna Taker rod, which is still fine.
My brother in-law is the Shimano guy in the family, neither one of us(Me Penn/Newell) never had serious issues with giving them C+L, now I read a bunch of good stuff on the CI4+, and finally order one...only to find out the reel is garbage.
Can't make this stuff up.

Thanks for the info Bud

The reel is a good reel. It just has issues!  :o

A lot of this drag chewing is happening I think because some people are trying to get more drag from the reel than the reel is made to give.

And so the owners tend to really crank down the drag on these reels and what I am showing here is the result.

Now if you can use this reel within parameters and don't crank the drag down so tight it causes this type of problem, then maybe you can get longer time in between service jobs.

Oh, and hey, I just found this image and thought I'd add it in to the mix here.

This is what it looked like when I opened up the spool drag mech and looked inside. Not pretty.

The top drag washer is all chewed up largely due to the design of this new mech. And when added to over cranking down of the drag mech, it squeezes out the drag washer so it can get chewed up by the 4 posts and top piece with the holes in it.

And I think that key washer plate with the 4 holes in it is largely responsible for this shredding of the top drag washer. Notice the lower washers are not chewed up like the top one is.

(https://i.imgur.com/Oow3doX.jpg)


I am sure you will enjoy using your new reel. I am sure it will be smooth and easy to use and enjoyable to fish with. Just be aware of the drag issue and don't over crank it down too tight.

The less you use this type of design, the longer it will last. The more you crank it down, well, I guess you know... invest in drag washers like the two bags of them sitting on the bench in front of me.

In all the shop and all of the over one million parts we have in stock, if there was ever one part to keep on my bench around the clock it would be these two bags of new shimano drag washers since they are getting chewed up pretty fast around here.

Oh, and hey, one idea for solving this problem might be to just switch over to a different type of drag washer that will not flatten out and spread out from under the key plates to get chewed up on the posts and key plate holes. This is only a theory that might work as a solution.

I am wondering how well some carbon washers would hold up in this reel? I am sure the Penn teflon drag washers would solve this type of problem...

(https://i.imgur.com/jYG2H4D.jpg)

I don't consider a reel with that kind of IDIOCY a good reel personally.
Guess I'm going to have to get rid of it early on, and keep looking around.
I spend decent $ on stuff that will last if I take care of it, not for nonsense like what you've shown.

I appreciate your info and time spent showing this stupidity, it'll save me some aggravation.

Thanks Again

Just finished up 2 of these little beauties! One of the first Shimano Chronarchs ever made a 100A.

These reels are well over 20 plus years old and with nothing more than a tear down, cleaning, and lubrication, these reels will now last another 20 years!

I'd add these to my arsenal if I come across a lefty!

(https://i.imgur.com/NrXstyO.jpg)

Quote from: muzz on December 23, 2018, 02:24:31 PM
I don't consider a reel with that kind of IDIOCY a good reel personally.
Guess I'm going to have to get rid of it early on, and keep looking around.
I spend decent $ on stuff that will last if I take care of it, not for nonsense like what you've shown.

I appreciate your info and time spent showing this stupidity, it'll save me some aggravation.

Thanks Again

This is the very reason for this thread! It is just an information source showing what I run into on a daily basis repairing reels. The purpose of this thread is to help fishermen make better choices for their gear, and sometimes seeing the insides and problems others have can help each of us make better decisions for ourselves.

So I am glad at least one person can get some use from this thread. I have had several requests to carry this thread over to another forum, but as yet have not found the time or energy to do so.

And if you want to purchase a quality built stradic that will last for decades, try buying a like new older FH stradic off ebay...

plenty of them available... and these FH stradics are from the peak of the stradic line... FG was still on the way up... FH and FI's and FJ's took them over the top, and now down the backside to today...

These FH stradics are what earned shimano the stradic reputation shimano is now shredding with their newer stradics...

I am still buying up all the FH stradics I can!

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/fqgAAOSwwZxb~jE4/s-l1600.jpg)

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/gI0AAOSwXGRcGmex/s-l1600.jpg)

Wow

Crap

Yep!

So here are some of this week's forum reels...

This first one is a nice Shimano Calcutta 200B. It landed on my bench right straight out of the mail box. Even says so on the ticket.

It also says on the ticket the owner wants a full C&L on the reel and repair the thumbar which he damaged in his failed DIY home attempt. He tried yanking off the left side plate and bent the E clip dragging it down the shaft under the thumbar so it blocked its use and he could not figure it out. He also could not get the line guide working again, and simply did not know what parts went where or in what configuration.

(https://i.imgur.com/MniCET4.jpg)

30 or 40 minutes later... so easy to do for trained techs. I'd sure like to watch some of these home attempts on video!

(https://i.imgur.com/Al9Y1eq.jpg)

Inside of this reel there is a bushing on the bottom of the main drive shaft. Not a bearing but a specially made bushing. This one bushing requires a specific lubrication.

Grease is not it. Oil, yes, but what type of oil and why? Shimano recommends one specific lubricant for this one part. In fact, the level of engineering of this one part is specially designed to accept a very specific lubrication.

People who attempt this repair at home usually do not have that memo from Shimano and most of the time use the wrong lubricant on this one part.

(https://i.imgur.com/WMJK731.jpg)

When reassembled this reel (with my eyes closed - kidding), I counted using 4 separate lubricants for this repair job.

1)For the reel parts.
2)Drag washers
3)bushing
4)bearing lube.

That one single bushing gets it own designed lubricant. Hint... viscosity.

In our shop I am the stradic guy. When a stradic comes in, they come straight to me.

And this takes the cake! One of the best DIY home fails this week! So I called up the owner to ask how far he wanted to go with this repair all revolving around extent of bearing replacement or rehabilitation attempts at the shop.

So in the conversation I asked him straight up how this reel got in this condition and he openly admitted to me that he read all about servicing his own reel on a forum and then watched some youtube video and thought he had it down to a science! So take a look at what forum recommendations and youtube did to this fantastic little reel:

Taking off the rotor the first thing I encountered was red grease clogged up AR bearing! Crammed packed with grease.

What amazes me is that in huge capital letters right on the visible surface of this AR bearing it plainly and clearly says NO GREASE!!!

I suppose Shimano does not know what they are talking about while online experts do! This guy ignored a direct statement to NOT USE GREASE on this AR bearing. But some guy on the internet said to do it!

Yeah well, that was your first mistake! Listen to Shimano. Not people with no connection to Shimano.

(https://i.imgur.com/jj6pBFV.jpg)

Digging deeper...

You can barely even see the needle bearings inside because they are buried in grease! It looks like he used a spatula of some kind and just mashed it in there. More is better right? Ha!

He could have shoved bubble gum in there and get the same results as seen here.

(https://i.imgur.com/FeQLsf1.jpg)

And he wondered why his AR bearing no longer worked! Hilarious! What part of NO GREASE did he miss?

He even put the AR sleeve on upside down. Another reason his reel did not work when he put it back together.

(https://i.imgur.com/VQKvEZu.jpg)

And here are the results of forum recommendations and youtube videos...

(https://i.imgur.com/EPx8H21.jpg)

Anyone want to hold this reel and go fishing with it? It would slip right out of your hands! It had so much grease and oil in it, it was oozing out everywhere it could get out!

(https://i.imgur.com/TgDbwhP.jpg)

One of the most common things we see on failed home service attempts is that special screws seem to never get back in the right spot. These are side plate screws. I know my image is a little fuzzy because my new phone camera does not take close ups well, but you can see the screws are not the same. 2 are, 1 is not.

They have specific locations and DIY'rs usually don't get this right.Put the wrong screw in the wrong place and damage to the reel will happen. It will damage the reel! Spot specific screws...

(https://i.imgur.com/YxjN8n8.jpg)

This forum reel is the 1st place home fail winner this week!

You know, it is what it is... keeps us in business that's for sure!

Reel price $5.00.

Service? $30.00.

He paid $30 plus parts to service a $5 reel today!

Hey, whatever the customer wants! We are only too happy to comply...

(https://i.imgur.com/gx1UHAe.jpg)

Deleted

It came in as a quick fix. That means we only fix what is broke and do not touch anything else on the reel.

The ticket said only fix bail spring and AR. That's it.

(https://i.imgur.com/Lydg0gz.jpg)

I had to work on this reel with all of this grease in it and get deeper and deeper into the reel just to repair it fully back to working condition.

So I started with the AR froze up from corrosion and broke spring, and then move to the bail finding a broken lever. It was badly corroded from saltwater too and owner tried to bend it to make it work. It didn't.

Also please notice where grease is and where grease is not. Look at gear teeth. Bare. Look under oscillating slider. Bare. Tons of grease inside of this reel and none of it in places where it can do any good.

(https://i.imgur.com/FdnjPLu.jpg)

So once I completed the two things the owner wanted fixed I found out the reel would still not work for him or catch fish.

Why?

Because he attempted to service this reel at home and also came up with a huge fail, but he said he does not read online forums. He just attempted this one on his own.

So come to find out he ground down the front of the drive shaft because he lost the original drag knob and tried to make one he had fit this reel but it would not tighten down the drag at all. Absolutely no drag on this reel.

(https://i.imgur.com/t2ksIP1.jpg)

So back into the schematic, dig up parts numbers, hunt down a new drag knob and main shaft had to be replaced because he ground it down so far, the new drag knob would not even thread onto the reel.

Broken wrong drag knob and part falling out of it on the left, and brand new correct drag knob on the right.  Now it is clear why he thought grinding down the main shaft was a good idea so the old drag knob he found laying around could screw down far enough to push on drag stack.

These drag knobs are not even close! But a grinder will fix it! NOT!

(https://i.imgur.com/4oO3DyE.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/mvHFBOW.jpg)

This reel is not worth much. This repair cost more than the reel is worth. And it is only a quick fix repair at that!

This is what my bench looked like before opening this reel. Clean. Now look above after finishing this reel.

I looked like my bench too!  :o

(https://i.imgur.com/DXzajFC.jpg)

If this customer had been willing to pay us just $10 more, we would have done a complete C&L.

I was referring to people that send stuff in with this kind of nonsense, please don't take this as something as you...geesh...my word... I thought you knew better.
Sorry for any confusion.

Yeah, I was confused. I went back and edited out some of my whining and complaining!   ~b~

I should leave more of that out! lol!

I wonder what the mailman will bring us tomorrow?

Lately I've been letting the shop direct my traffic. Tomorrow I might take a detour and choose some low profile baitcasters to dig into.

Good Luck Kent, something tells me that you'll be dealing with straight up nonsense though!
"I'mma grease up this reel, momma, get me that tub of bearing grease and a spatula please..."

Quote from: FloridaFishinFool on December 27, 2018, 06:38:17 PM
I'd sure like to watch some of these home attempts on video!

No you wouldn't, I can tell you from personal experience it can get ugly. Shame on Shimano for requiring 4 different lubes, if they don't tell you in the owner's manual then they should repair at no charge any damage a customer has if he puts it back together right except for lube because they didn't tell him in the manual. I've made my fair share of mistakes.  and I can laugh about it now. When you own a bunch of reels and there isn't a budget for all of it you start learning how yourself. Fortunately I've only ruined one reel, a 20$ Shimano spinning reel that I found, I've bought parts for reels when they went flying but that doesn't happen much now. When I got a cell phone with a camera I started taking pics if I didn't know how a reel came apart and went back together and I now have a notebook with parts breakdowns for all my reels. When I just had 6 or 7 reels I would have them done by a local guy, when he moved I started doing my own, I was adding to the numbers also. I've learned about lubes for my reels by reading and am still learning, I've learned to tune my reels and the whole process of tuning or doing normal maintenance helps me wile away the winter. I still take a lot longer to do a reel than professional repair men but it's mostly by choice but then I enjoyed tearing down and going through Rochest Quadrajet carbs in my younger day.
Rodney

Hello Rodney and good morning!

I am going to have to disagree with you on whether or not shimano should inform customers of internal lubricants.

From a Shimano perspective reel owners should not be going inside of the reels. Shimano does not consider their products to be serviceable by every owner out there. The system does not work this way.

Did the company that made your garage door opener inform you of what lubricant to use deep inside the housing of the garage door opener?

(I use this as an example because I just had to replace mine yesterday- and it ruined my boating outing)

When you buy a car, you are informed of what oil to put in the motor, but  inside the dash there are moving parts. Does the car manufacturer inform you of what lubricants are used in places in your car they don't want you going?

Point is, this is not something companies have to disclose. It is proprietary.

How many people service their own refrigerators?
How many people service their own Air Conditioners?
How many people service their own food disposal units?

Shimano also now has more than one drag grease. It is not something they have to disclose as to which grease is used on which reels. They don't want you to know this Rodney because they don't want owners getting into their reels.

And it is precisely because of this growing situation that is causing brands- all of them- to develop new technologies that owners can not service at home without special training and special tools like Daiwa's Mag Seal bearings. The brands are also creating parts made of certain materials that will dissolve with the wrong lubricants. And they are not going to tell anyone what those are and they don't have to.

They do this on purpose because they are trying to protect the expected level of operation for their products and don't consider DIY'rs at home as living up to the brands' expected level of servicing. And it is not just for reels. We see this in just about all products that companies want to protect and expect a certain level of operation from. Their brand reputations ride on those products, and they don't want their reputation tarnished by home servicing gone wrong.

Auto manufacturers are trying to outlaw servicing of their vehicles with copyright laws. With newer protected technologies coming to market ever day, brands are seeking ways to build products customers are not meant to service. Reel brands are joining that movement.

https://jalopnik.com/carmakers-want-to-make-working-on-your-car-illegal-beca-1699132210

Carmakers Want To Use Copyright Law To Make Working On Your Car Illegal

Jason Torchinsky
4/21/15 12:05pm


(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--Q-5ErXRB--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/ectusaeslczobvylrcic.jpg)


Auto makers are using DCMA law because in their products are patented and copyright protected software, devices, and other.

Shimano is now building computer controlled reels.

I wonder if they can use DCMA to prevent customers from servicing their own reels?

This type of thing is in the process of happening right now. If auto makers can win this battle, then it will flow over into other markets like fishing equipment too.

While I understand the frustration. I have it too for other products I own like my Evinrude outboard and Toyota SUV which I have to take to factory authorized service centers to get the level of service I want for these products.

Rodney, it is just the way it is. Right or wrong, it is the way it is...

You know Rodney, I confess at home I use different lubricants than we do in the shop.

In the shop we have to use brand approved chemicals and lubricants.

But at home I only use about half of what we use in the shop. I don't use the same grease at home that I do at the shop.

I use something different because of friction testing proved to me what I use at home is superior to what we use in the shop- and this is purely my own opinion on the subject based on those friction tests which you can see on youtube.

I found it interesting the brand of grease I personally use made a video of their friction testing and lubrication abilities and included the brand of grease we use in the shop.

In that test, the lube I use at home beat the lubricant tests of what the shop uses.

But truth be known, both work equally as well in reels because there is virtually 'no load' in reels. Reels are the easy life for grease products so a wide variety of grease will work just fine as long as it is not petroleum based. Avoid those.

I even experiment at home with various lubricants in my own personal reels. Drag grease substitutes are one of my experiments.

So I do it too Rodney!

Today at the shop are the kind of days I love!

I get to work on what I want to work on! So today it is an old Shimano Chronarch 100A. One of the early Chronarchs!

These reels are my passion, but reels in this condition are especially my passion!

This Chronarch is locked up tight! No function whatsoever. Frozen.

Restoring reels like this one to Shimano standards of operation are what I live for!

In fact, the last time Shimano executives visited our shop before ICAST earlier this year I was then working on a Curado B reel in a similar condition when they arrived here.

All of the Shimano executives that visited us were not working for Shimano at the time the reel I was working on was made. They did not join Shimano until decades after many of the reels we work on were made.

So they really enjoyed watching and seeing how we restore some of their older products and keep them working for many more years to come. And they appreciated us taking care of their long time customers for them each and every day.

Some of their questions for us was geared towards what could Shimano do today that could help us facilitate this type of work for their brand and older reels. So interesting discussion ensued.

But today, I had to get out the hammers on this reel and actually damage some parts to get it apart. No other way. But the damage won't be visible because it is under the thumbar, but it had to come off in order to even replace the thumbar. So the parts are reusable, and I may or may not replace certain ones.

When the exterior of a bearing rusts and the aluminum frame also corrodes around it, the two are virtually cemented together, and just pulling and pushing will not work.

So combined with a little bit of lubricant and some careful hammering, slowly, piece by piece, and with a punch or two, this reel slowly came apart. Even the spool was completely locked in and had to be tapped out.

And since parts are no longer available for this reel, the only way it can be repaired is by digging into our parts reels. And I was not about to start on this one unless I had those parts, otherwise it would have been useless to even try and restore this reel.

So today I am living my passion! If I have my way, this reel will see another 25 to 30 years!

Those same Shimano executives would be smiling on work like this!

(https://i.imgur.com/1OAHEJm.jpg)

So I found a parts reel! Parts reels like this are priceless to me. They surrender their life so others can live on!

(https://i.imgur.com/cpovNNE.jpg)

What a fun day bringing that old Chronarch back to life! She's all done now and I will do the write up later, but one point I'd like to make on reels in this condition is that when I reassemble the reel, I go one step further on the lubrication.

Where bearings are found stuck like glue in the frame on an old corroded reel, I clean the walls the bearing rests on, and then use a thin coat of grease there so in the future, the grease will act as a corrosion prevention agent, and also help to prevent binding so parts and bearings will be easy to remove for this reel's next service.

Days like today are living the dream!

And ever since I started working on reels as a teenager some 40 years ago, this type of reel is what I live for!

As a kid I had to fish with some real junk. Old, crusty junk hand me downs. So I had no choice but to try and fix them myself. And so began a lifelong passion.

Taking one man's junk and trash and turning into my own personal treasure. That is satisfaction. And when I take it out fishing and feel how flawless the restored reel responds in my hands and catches fish like new really puts the icing on the cake!

So today I felt like a teenager again tearing into and hammering into this reel. It was great!

When this reel hit my bench this morning it was a quick fix. At least that is what the ticket said. It said fix thumbar and mistakenly said find handle nut cover, but should have said find cast control knob, but our 19 year old front counter nursing student just made a simple mistake is all.

So I picked up the reel and tried to spin the handle. It clicked. And the broken thumbar just flopped around.

I told her it was not going to be a quick fix, so I needed to call the customer and talk him into a full C&L on the reel which is only $10 more in labor.

So guys, NEVER tell a shop to do a quick fix on your reels if the reels even slightly need overhauling. It is only a $10 difference in price so pay the extra $10 and get the entire reel serviced. (My opinion advice)

So I called this guy up and talked to him about the reel. He told me he had purchased it from some guy online who told him it was in good physical shape but needed a new thumbar so he bought it. Once he received the reel he quickly found out it was useless for fishing.

I easily talked the customer into an entire reel overhaul because he really wanted the reel in good shape and just treating it as a quick fix would not accomplish that for him with this particular reel in this bad of shape.

Years of saltwater use with no service for decades. Everything was corroded, rusted and frozen up. Getting it apart was not easy. I had to tap out the spool because the spool bearing had rusted and the frame had corroded literally bonding the two together as if glued together permanently.

Dirt and rust on inside of spool...

(https://i.imgur.com/hVqW7Et.jpg)

I noticed the handle was not original, but it worked. I removed it, and the drag star and found that whoever owned this reel before our customer got it had been inside the reel many years ago.

This is easy for me to determine because once the drag star is removed the 3 parts under it are specific parts in a specific order, and what I found was 2 spring washers aligned with each other when they are suppose to oppose each other. So that tells me someone has been in the reel who had no clue what they were doing. Mistakes like that should not happen. And because they made that mistake, they now needed a thicker washer in there to operate the drag stack. And that is why the washer was changed out.

And, the white plastic washer is not suppose to be there. A particular Shimano washer is suppose to be there and facing one way. Most people who do this at home forget which way the washer is suppose to be oriented and quite often they are reinstalled backwards. In this reel it was just gone and replaced with plastic.

This is an end user mistake and tell tale sign we pay attention to before we ever even open up the reel.

(https://i.imgur.com/xl4SvsA.jpg)

Once inside, it was not pretty...

(https://i.imgur.com/tZpPNtD.jpg)

In this reel was the bottom of the ocean, seaweed, pieces of wood, and no telling what else was in there along with corrosion and rust to make these bearings "rough" and "noisy". Some of the bearings did not even spin. Locked up.

I know this next image is kind of fuzzy, but it shows the clutch mech is locked up in one position. It is midway between casting and reeling and won't move in either direction. Frozen up.

(https://i.imgur.com/158DV0w.jpg)

At this point I began finding tiny little black plastic washers floating around inside the reel. 2 of them. Another tell tale sign someone has been inside this reel in the past.

When I removed the clutch, I found another small black washer on it. None of these washer belong inside of this reel and have no place in there. So I removed them and strictly rebuilt this reel by official shimano guidelines and schematic.

(https://i.imgur.com/o6FZS37.jpg)

And on this reel, the line guide is peculiar in how it is installed and removed from this reel shown below:

(https://i.imgur.com/n2orPET.jpg)

Once all the parts were broken down to individual parts, into the ultrasonic cleaner they went... here is what the frame looked like right after a cleaning in the tank, and just before I hit it with a brass wire brush and dental picks cleaning stuck on stuff off the reel.

(https://i.imgur.com/BRTkBcG.jpg)

Once the frame was done, the spool and spool bearing dealt with, Handle bushing lubricated, etc. I now had to procure my "new" parts from off the parts reel which had to be taken apart to get what I needed off of it.

Here are the parts I had to replace using the other reel. It was that black machined screw at top that I damaged taking this reel apart because it was frozen in place and screwdriver would not remove it. Locked in by corrosion.

I could have reused that screw and it would have worked just fine, but I decided to go ahead and replace it since I had another one handy.

Oh, and one thing I noticed as a difference between the two reels is that it appears someone in the past replaced the worm gear because it was not the same as the parts reel. It was newer design and metal. Some parts just were not the same. Shimano's production changes maybe???

(https://i.imgur.com/Q54x8v2.jpg)

I began to reassemble the reel beginning with the thumbar and line guide. And next moved to the clutch and gears... piece of cake!

Here is the reel back together showing some of the parts replaced and removed

(https://i.imgur.com/2QdEs4b.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/F4nU3U0.jpg)

And I cut this guy a break and did not charge him for all the parts I replaced. I gave him one used bearing and the washer under the drag star.

Which by the way, how many out there know what this washer is all about? Shimano produces a special washer for this location, and it is metal on one side and teflon coated on the other side.

But which way should it be installed back into the reel? I can not tell you how many reels we see where the owner put this one washer back in the reel wrong. Its 50-50 chance, and a lot of them get it wrong when they do this at home.

(https://i.imgur.com/nhvZ3gS.jpg)

Total price of this repair is $65.08 (plus tax) for a completely frozen up reel restored back to like new.

I love this stuff!

You know, actually fixing reels is so much more enjoyable and satisfying than parts swapping for a career!

Once finished this reel was as smooth and quiet as new! I passed it around the shop for peer review and everyone loved it! So I get to pat myself on the back for another reel saved from the trash!

It is not about the money. It is about the challenge and successfully meeting that challenge and seeing some of my favorite reels get to live again and catch fish again. That is satisfying.

This is one of the most informative reel maintenance threads I have ever seen.  Young people, buy quality equipment.  Maintain it.  It will provide you service for many years.  I have many Shimano's over 20 to 25 years old that are still kicking.   Diawa has upped their recent game. And there are other good options.

FFF, did you take any pics of my 71 when you cleaned it? You said there was grass in the reel...I'd like to see what my neglect looks like  ;)

I like nice equipment but am too distracted to do proper maintenance. I can manage to change and clean bearings. Any more than that and I'm just going to go fishing. Thankfully I have a good Shimano tech at my disposal for the real work ~gf

Quote from: Basswhippa on February 26, 2019, 06:59:12 AM
This is one of the most informative reel maintenance threads I have ever seen.  Young people, buy quality equipment.  Maintain it.  It will provide you service for many years.  I have many Shimano's over 20 to 25 years old that are still kicking.   Diawa has upped their recent game. And there are other good options.

Thanks! This trial is on hold until after ICAST. I am sure it will continue in some form or venue. Upon review, some tweaking and changes to approach and subject may occur. But it will be back!

Quote from: redux on March 02, 2019, 04:37:47 AM
FFF, did you take any pics of my 71 when you cleaned it? You said there was grass in the reel...I'd like to see what my neglect looks like  ;)

I like nice equipment but am too distracted to do proper maintenance. I can manage to change and clean bearings. Any more than that and I'm just going to go fishing. Thankfully I have a good Shimano tech at my disposal for the real work ~gf

Now you see Z, you bring up a good point about identifying who owns what reels. This is something I decided from the very beginning I would never do. I was even called out on this in this thread for this very thing and I actually had to explain it would not happen even after the 5 or 6 page history before it of all anonymous reels.

This thread was never intended to tie any reels to any one person. This is not about embarrassing anyone because of what is found in their reels, or how one person takes care of their reels or not. It is strictly about the reels only. No faces. No names. No embarrassment. No humiliation of any kind. That sort of thing would be bad news for a thread like this one; and distract from purpose and intent and flow.

So no, Z, I did not take any pictures of your reels... but next time if you want me too...  :-*

According to the stats, this thread in only 2 years moved to 8th position in ratings and draw. All others that are higher in ratings also have quite a number of additional years to pick up those chart topping viewings this one did not have. So that's cool!