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Author Topic: Is RED an asset or gimmick?  (Read 10127 times)

fishforfree

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Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« on: January 31, 2006, 10:02:47 PM »

I got to talkin' with Team Illinois the other day and he brought up the topic of RED.  He told me he was switchin' from Big Game line to Cajun Lightning Line by Shakespeare.  I listened because I'm a HUGE Big Game fan and have been for numerous years.

Anyhow - On the Cajun Line label it says:

Water filters out certain colors more than others. The color red is the first color to be completely filtered. This means tha  once Cajun Red Line'TM goes underwater it starts to become "invisible" to fish in as little as three feet of water! All the fish see is the lure.

Cool. very cool.  Right?

Well if RED disappears on line wouldn't it stand to reason that it would disappear on lures too?

We're all buying these lures with RED on them because they tell us the RED  looks like blood and the bass attack because of it.  If red disapperas how can they see it?

Soooooooooooooo...............

Is the color RED a powerful asset to us fishermen?

Or is it a marketing gimmick to get us to buy?


What say you?
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burkp

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2006, 10:08:16 PM »

Thats a good point and exactly what I thought when I heard someone talk about that at the tackle store.  I am not sure if it is a certain hue or what, but I agree if red line is invisible to fish then so would red speckles, stripes or hooks.

I VOTE GIMMICK, but what do I know! lo

Phillip
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Team KaRu

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2006, 10:11:02 PM »

FFF, Yep that is EXACTLY what it says on the box of Cajun Red!  I talked with an Engineer that also plays with underwater camera work and he reflected the same thoughts on this ~read "red" thing. So, then all the baits that I have been switchin out hooks to the color red has been in vain, except there is real blood on my lures now, tho it be mine! ~b~ ~rant.  I've actually kept a red magic marker in my  "stuff bag" with all the other smelly add on things just to mark lite colored crank baits..  ::)
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Team KaRu

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2006, 10:15:44 PM »

AND, to add to that FFF, the next time you go "crappie" fishing and keep a few to eat. :) yum yum.  Filet one up on the shore and if the H2O is clear drop the carcass back into the water and look at the color of blood as it lays there.  Sorta grey ain't it :shocking:  so much for red colored blood trail in the water... Is there any "REAL" proof that fish see in color? 
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spetro

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2006, 10:18:51 PM »

I say its both.....in nature red is everywhere.  In the right conditions I would think its an assest......But on the other hand, when the marketing guys hear this "red" talk..... its a marketing free for all JMHO :P
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Team KaRu

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2006, 10:23:23 PM »

Spetro, You are right... we give a bunch of products free space here but it also helps us make better decisions fishing and that is why i'm here  :-*  To get the straight skinny from the guys that fish all the time...
ps:  The sunglasses on the Ape was Great! :roll2:

Here is the website to check out Cajun.
http://www.cajunline.com/science.html
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Fishaholic

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2006, 10:31:14 PM »

senkosam posted some real useful information regarding the spectrum underwater...it's in one of the other "old" red hook theory threads.

no one can really make a definitive answer - the color of the water plays a role, as does the clarity or turbidity. Then there's the other problem, we base it all on what we see, and we're not bass. lo

Personally, I believe red hooks catch more fishermen than fish, but there's a whole bunch of guys here that strongly disagree with me.
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Team KaRu

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2006, 10:33:06 PM »

The grapevine 'round here says your at least 43% bass ~roflmao
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LoonyToon

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2006, 11:52:57 PM »

~c~ Great topic: ~read On the color spectrum the color red/red will not dissapate in water and become invisible, but various shades of it will...The Shakespeare Cajun line is of that variation, thus being NOT a true red, but a hue of it... As the light diffuses through this variation it projects a red tint to the naked eye, but as the line descends deeper where the light does not penetrate it as much it becomes transparent and very hard for the fish to see...(In a test conducted in Berkley's water chambers the line that had the most strikes was their Fluorocarbon Vanish with the Cajun line coming in second, and after all others they stated that the braids did dismally).  I witnessed a demonstration conducted by Debbie on the Pro Staff of Bass Pro Shops in Baltimore recently in their tank. You could see the braided lines, then came the monos, followed by the copolymers, then along came both Vanish and Cajun...The only way to follow the Cajun was to look toward the top of the tank and you could pick out a faint coloration until about 2-3 1/2 feet down than hardly anyone saw it, but watched the bait move....I do not use this type of fishing line, but do use red treble hooks and have found personally to have a better hook-up ratio using the red trebles...It may be psychological, but  I believe it works...............Thanks for letting me add my two cents worth  ~c~ ~c~ ~c~  PS..Spetro the glasses and cigar added character, why did you change them ?
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nlareau

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2006, 06:22:22 AM »

Boy, everybody has different opinions on this.  My observation is that red light does not travel well in water.  I think the reason red hooks work is because a fish doesn't see them.  I guess red hooks are my first choice, but I don't get worried if I have to buy metal colored hooks.
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Warpath

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2006, 06:58:06 AM »

Neil brings up a good point, if the fish can't see red....they can't see the hooks and might be more willing to bite a bait. 

Or....at least that waht I took out of his post! :help:

I never concern myself with red hooks or plain old hooks.  I have some of both, and I just grab one of them out of the box when I need one.  If its red, okay.  If not, thats okay too.  I try to focus on the things I can control and the things I know....and leave the things I have no idea about tucked away somewhere they won't drive me batty!!!

Eric
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Fishaholic

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2006, 07:05:24 AM »

If my memory serves me correctly, red doesn't actually disappear...it becomes a shade of grey, but for that matter...do fish actually see colors, or just shades of grey like so many other animals?
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Charles E. White

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2006, 07:10:26 AM »

They have done several test on the color red for sure.

One of the reasons the color red is supposed to be good in a lure is not only because of the blood color but also because of the color of a baitfish gills.  They noticed that many times a bass would not strike until they seen bluegill's flare their gills, thus, showing the color red.

I know personally, I have increased my catches on spinnerbaits when my trailer hooks were red.  Hank Parker says he has increased his catches with red hooks too.

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Charles E. White

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2006, 07:10:57 AM »

I attended the BU held here in Jan and Kevin Van Dam was one of the pros there. He made a comment on red that actually turned the :-* on for me. He stated he used red hooks because in the clearer, or shallower stained, water the red triggered strikes because the fish could  see it and in dirtier water, or in low light conditions/deeper water, the red would diminish/disappear so the fish wouldn't see the hooks, just the bait (as NLareau said). So basically, everyone's theories are right. We just weren't looking at the benefits of each.
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Warpath

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2006, 07:17:02 AM »

Fish,

I think that is the real basis of the argument.  What do fish see?  And you will get so many different answers, what is the point of thinking about it?  At least thats how I approach it.

I've always heard (predominantly, mind you) that fish see black, white (and hence grey), and red.  I'm no scientist, so I decided I wouldn't think about it anymore.

Eric
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Fishaholic

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2006, 07:18:40 AM »

I attended the BU held here in Jan and Kevin Van Dam was one of the pros there. He made a comment on red that actually turned the :-* on for me. He stated he used red hooks because in the clearer, or shallower stained, water the red triggered strikes because the fish could  see it and in dirtier water, or in low light conditions/deeper water, the red would diminish/disappear so the fish wouldn't see the hooks, just the bait (as NLareau said). So basically, everyone's theories are right. We just weren't looking at the benefits of each.

of course that's based on his scientific credentials right?

I believe it's a confidence issue...

even red hooks reflect light in the way of shine if it's a bright day...

the red vs blued vs silver vs gold deal has way too many variables to definitively say one way or the other which is best. At what depth are the baits being worked...this has a bearing; what is the atmospheric conditions for the day...this has a bearing; what's the condition of the water...this has a bearing; is there a heavy chop, are you working the bait slow or fast, what type of bait, what size bait...just way too many variables to make absolute statements about any color or type of lure.

the reality is this...sometimes red works, sometimes it don't...sometimes blued works, sometimes it don't, etc, etc...it's all about adaptability and our willingness to find the right combination that catches fish.

based on KVD's statement I believe it's a confidence issue for him...this is my opinion.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2006, 07:23:16 AM by Fishaholic »
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Warpath

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2006, 08:00:12 AM »

Fish,

I can't believe you wouldn't just "believe" KVD?  I mean you're from NW IN, and KVD is from MI.  Isn't he your idol? 

Sorry for the sarcasm!!!

You know I went to two Bassmaster U in the past 5 years.  I was fortunate enough to see some great fishermen speak.  I'm not saying I couldn't learn anything else from a pro, because I'm sure I could.  But After hearing Cochran say one thing and KVD say the opposite on the same topic.....I've decided that it is more important to spend time on the water and develop your own style.  I guess that goes along with Fish's confidence line of thought.  For me, it's about practice and repetition to develop your own style.

Eric
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Fishaholic

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2006, 08:02:17 AM »

Amen to that War.

PMA, technique, and practice, practice, practice.

...no one really knows for sure, but the fish. ;)
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borderbasser

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2006, 08:10:42 AM »

from where I stand its a gimmick.... only had one fish bite a red hook and it was a toothy critter ~xyz
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Creel Limit Zero

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2006, 08:32:56 AM »

I'll I got to say about red is

FEAR THE TURTLE!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I think it is proven that the further down into the water column you go, the more light refracts, and the less you will see colors.  Red being on the far end of one spectrum, is the first to go.  On the other hand, to say a red hook or red line disappears when it is deep is not accurate.  It's not going to disappear, it just is not going to look red, it is going to be gray.
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T1A

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2006, 08:38:42 AM »

Agree with you FFF 100%...From my college Marine Biology days I remember that Red is the first color in the spectrum disappearing underwater in as little as 3 feet.  I myself don't use red hooks but there are alot of guys who will swear by it and I sell alot of red hooks and lures outta the shop here.  If a lure is a "bleeding"  series type of bait I would magine scent or action has more to do with it than color does.
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bass1cpr

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2006, 09:04:30 AM »

      Well if your not using red trebles good that leaves more for me.  lo Why do they work I don't really know. I just know that when I have a red hok on a crank bait that's the one in the fishes mouth.
     I don't think KVD's confidence needs boosting I'm pretty sure he has lots of confidence in his knowledge and fishing abilaties.
     Now not all of my crank baits have red hooks but if I'm getting bit on a bait then chnaces are that I will add a red hook to see if there is any difference in the way the fish are taking the bait. Usually there is so the red hook will stay on that bait. Just my personel experience.
     Another thing I have noticed when the red wears off the bites I had been getting slow down, I put on a fresh red hook and the hook ups start happening again.
     DO catfish, drum and the other species see the same as bass? Because they eat the red hook too.
     I know FishA,  it's My Confidence.  lo  IF it makes ya feel good DO IT.  ~shade
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Blake R.

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2006, 04:51:31 PM »

Red line actually turns a darker color under water, in some instances black. Never understood why to use red line when clear line is already, well, clear :-\
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Sharon

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2006, 04:56:55 PM »

I seem to catch more fish too with a red hook, and here I thought it was just a pretty color  lo
Blake, supposedly pink line is invisible to fish, but thats what I thought of the clear too  :-\  I use pink, yea, cus its pretty  ~roflmao
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fishforfree

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Re: Is RED an asset or gimmick?
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2006, 05:04:02 PM »

Yeh, Sharon........I saw YoZuri came out with a pink line and I thought  -hey maybe I should try this.

Then I thought..........................naw better not.  -


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