Reel Chronicles...

[FloridaFishinFool]

I have been considering starting a thread like this one for a while now, and I suppose now is as good a time as any...

I wanted to open up a thread for any members here who repair reels and would like to post information about any and all reels that could be of use to other members when considering buying a reel or use of a reel concerning some common and not so common problems found when repairing reels.

I plan on trying to keep this thread updated from time to time and I hope Mike Cork and LMG and other reel repair techs will add information from time to time when something interesting comes up during a repair, information that could benefit all of us.

[LgMouthGambler]

Here is a common problem with most reels. People don't service them enough. They like to wait till there are problems and parts need to be replaced due to wear from not servicing. Lol

<")))>{

[FloridaFishinFool]

Very true LMG... a lot of the reels I get in are from people who use them til they stop working...

The first reel I would like to chronicle is a Shimano Matanium XG.

This morning I was already working on a couple of old Shimano Citica 200D reels when a call came into the shop from a customer wanting his Metanium back today.

So our college hottie who answers the phone and talks to customers at the counter took the call and asked me if I could jump on the Metanium and I said I would as soon as I closed up the first Citica.

Upon looking at it from the outside I could see the braid line had stacked up on one side, the same side the line guide was stuck on. I tried turning the handled and it would turn but clicked because the line guide was frozen in place. I looked at the ticket and it said "fix line guide only" so no C&L. Just a quick fix of the problem.

So I began taking the reel apart to get at the worm gear shaft. Once I got the main drive gears out of the way I tried turning the handle again. Same thing, it clicked and the worm gear did not turn at all.

So I knew I had to take it fully apart to get at the problem.

I was surprised to find that a so called high end Shimano reel did not have any ball bearings in the line guide mechanism and was not even designed to have any ball bearings at all. Both ends of the aluminum worm gear were turning inside plastic only.

But on the end of the worm gear where the E clip is located I found quite a bit of corrosion. Just that one end had corroded from use in salt water and the white chalky oxidized aluminum had corroded right at the end where it fits into the plastic to spin. The white chalky corrosion had literally locked up and completely frozen the worm gear at that location.

I had to use some fine sand paper and sand the end of the worm gear shaft back to clean aluminum and grease it up as well as clean the plastic piece the worm gear slides inside of, and put it all back together.

Now it worked as good as new.

So my conclusion is that Shimano changed the metal of the worm gear from stainless steel to aluminum to not only save on production expenses, but to also lighten up the weight of the reel, but the problem now is just what I found... the aluminum does not take salt water very well and I am sure I will be seeing more of this type of problem in the future.

I have 4 new Shimano curado's and I could develop a similar problem with them.

So just be aware, that even though some of these reels are "higher end" reels does not mean they can handle salt water intrusion any better than cheaper reels, and it certainly does not mean they are made better either.

At this point I have decided I won't be adding any Metanium reels to my collection... especially living here in Florida. They may be fine for people who live much further from the ocean than I do.

[LgMouthGambler]

Shimano baitcasters never really had bearing supported wormshafts. In fact they just started getting into having a bushing that you can replace with a bearing that i have done quite a few of to get them nice and smooth.

On a side note, as far as Shimanos levelwind systems, I have made quite a few disappointing discoveries.

Here is the wormshaft and pawl of a Scorpion70.

Yes, thats a plastic wormshaft and pawl.

A Curado70

You can see the top right pic its the same thing, plastic.

A Metanium MGL that I did had a metal wormshaft, but a plastic pawl.

All this that I had discovered I took to Tackle Tours section of Shimanos product support and got answers from their rep that "its the new direction, and new materials that are proven to stand up. Its a secret plastic thats strong". And I get that its not an area of the reel thats under heavy strain or load, but really? Couldnt just leave it metal and metal? What are you saving in weight and cost? If you ask me, I think its just cheapening what Shimano has been known for. With that I sold my Scorpion 70, and have since stuck with my Curado50E, Scorpion XT1000, and Aldebaran MG. I refuse to buy a new Shimano product based on this.



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[Oldfart9999]

I've been buying BPS PRO QUALIFIER, I like them, I have 1 Carbonlite reel and I compared the 2 this winter. I won't get another Carbonlite, 30$ more and cheaper made.
Rodney

[rockchalk06]

I've been buying BPS PRO QUALIFIER, I like them, I have 1 Carbonlite reel and I compared the 2 this winter. I won't get another Carbonlite, 30$ more and cheaper made.
Rodney

The PQ is a great reel, but they are tanks. When you start throwing lighter rigs that weigh less together than a PQ does by itself, they get put away.

[rockchalk06]

Here is a common problem with most reels. People don't service them enough. They like to wait till there are problems and parts need to be replaced due to wear from not servicing. Lol

<")))>{

Same with trucks!

[Oldfart9999]

I've done 5 PQ baitcasters and 1 PQ, 1 Extreme and 1 Black Carbonlite spinning reel all bought new. All I can say is the folks that assemble them must get paid buy how much lube they use, I cleaned enough out of each to lube 4 of each. The PQ bc and the three different spinning are nice reels.
Rodney

[FloridaFishinFool]

Yesterday when I was cleaning up my bench getting ready to head out the door fishing, a customer came in the front door with two reels he was reluctant to pay any money to fix. Shop owner took one and asked me to look at the other which I was told had no drag.

It was an old Bass Pro Johnny Morris reel.

The problem I was quick to find was that this particular customer said he took his reels to someone in Orlando to fix for him. And it appears all that person did was dip the reels into kerosene and handed them back to him.

Kerosene??? Seriously??? The entire shop began to smell.

And since this customer did not want the reels completely disassembled and put back together I just set about taking it apart far enough to dry up all the kerosene inside. The air compressor helped out a lot blowing a lot of it out.

But the drag stack was soaked in liquid kerosene. The cardboard drag washers were soaked in kerosene and deteriorating.

I spent most of an hour just cleaning off all the liquid kerosene. But I did this guy a favor when I put it back together for him... the only drag washers I had at hand quickly- rather than digging through Abu reels parts stock, were some old used drag washers. I installed for him a set of carbon fiber drag washers dry, lubricated his bearings after blowing out the kerosene and put it back together and only charged him a minimum and did not charge for the used drag washers.

But seriously, who the hell dips reels in kerosene and calls it a fix??? I was told this was something old timers did with much older reels. I'd sure like to find out who in Orlando is doing this. Surely they are not a professional repair shop??? Maybe one of the customers fishing friends???

Those two reels sure stunk up the shop!

Oh, and that other reel he brought in also dripping kerosene that another reel tech gets the fun in cleaning and repairing??? The customer who brought them into our shop said when he picked the reels up from the kerosene guy, that his line guide no longer worked. The pawl was now missing. Some repair! I hope I am at the shop when this customer comes back to pick up his reels. I want to ask him who did this.

[LgMouthGambler]

Sounds to me like you have a lot of winners up in your area. 

[Lipripper]

I've never taken one apart but even I know that Kerosene goes in lamps not reels.

[LgMouthGambler]

I've never taken one apart but even I know that Kerosene goes in lamps not reels.

Lotta Meth in them parts Lip. 

[Lipripper]

Lotta Meth in them parts Lip. 

It sure sounds like it 

[FloridaFishinFool]

Sounds to me like you have a lot of winners up in your area. 

And some really cheap customers too!   

Just yesterday while at the shop another reel tech got some Abu parts in for 3 reels he needed to finish up.

As I walked by him working at his bench putting the new parts in I casually asked what reels are those? And then I kind of answered my own question with "Black Max?"

The reel tech had one laying on its side with internal clutch and gear parts facing up and he said these reels cost between $300 and $400 but they are pretty much the same thing as a $59 black max! He said look at all the plastic parts inside this $400 reel! All basically the same as the black max with exception of gears and couple of other features.

We both got a laugh out of that one. But hey, if Abu can sell a $59 reel for $400 all the power to them!

All reel manufacturers are doing basically the same thing making the same reels across a broad price range and making a few internal changes for the drastic price differences.

And this is precisely the reason I don't go any higher up than Curado because I get the same casting performance of the higher end reels for less dollars. I could stop at the Citica level and do the same thing for even less.

If I spent $400 on higher end shimano reels I would not get my casts out there any further than I am now. The extra money blown does not get my casts not one inch any further out there. The Citica and Curado have free spinning spools in the cast mode. I can not get anything more from reels costing 2 and 3 times as much money. So why go there??? Generally I don't. If I were a millionaire then maybe, but for now I have no reason to do so.

But fellas, make sure your side plates are closed and locked before using a reel!

We had a customer bring his brand new Curado 70XG into the shop that he basically destroyed on his first time out with it because he did not properly lock the side plate and so when he cast the reel the spool came out of the reel and bent the axle.

[LgMouthGambler]

Have you used any high end Shimanos or Daiwas? If not, then you should just stick to your theory, because there IS a drastic difference. The same does not apply with Korean OEMs.

[FloridaFishinFool]

Yes I have. And I sold them too.

What I said was I did not get any further casting distance for the extra dollars. I work on all of these reels and have been for more than 30 years. It is because of this experience that I use what I use.

The Citica and Curado have a free spinning spool. What improvement can hundreds of dollars buy for me??? How do you improve a free spinning spool design??? Lessen the spool weight??? Not worth the dollars to me. And I do not need bling and bells and whistles. Been there. Done that. Returned to sanity is how I see it.

If people can afford to spend the dollars then all the power to them. I am just saying what works for me and why.

[LgMouthGambler]

If they work for you, thats great. But if you are not familiar with tuning reels (yeah yeah I know you have 30 years experience) then you wouldnt get it. There is more to everything than just what you know of repairing and servicing reels. There are spools, bearings, gears (ratios and materials), handles, drags, interchanging parts for cosmetic purposes, different brake tabs (centrifugal) or brake magnets and rotors (magnetic), DC systems form Shimano, SV and 3D systems from Daiwa, and many other things that can factor into price and such for higher end reels. All can affect castibility and ease of use by the user.

[FloridaFishinFool]

Let's boil it down to its basics...

When a reel is in the cast mode, what matters?

With my cheaper citica's and curado reels, the new design offers a free spinning spool.

When the reel is in the cast mode, the only thing in operation is a spool usually with 3x10x4mm ball bearings on each end.

All of this is mounted in a frame whether that frame is plastic, graphite, aluminum, or magnesium does not matter. The principle all the way across the reel price spectrum is the same.

Next, you have 3 basic spool spin controls, you have a cast control knob, magnetic and or centrifugal brakes.

That's it.

When a reel is in the casting mode, it does not matter if it is a $100 reel or a $500 reel. We have a spool spinning mounted in a frame with 2 ball bearings and a couple of spin control features that vary with model.

Everything else on a reel is irrelevant in a cast mode. All bells and whistles pretty much.

This is why I do not spend $400 and $500 on a reel because all that is getting me are the extra bells and whistles that are not employed nor even used during a cast.

The shimano Antares top of the line says this for sales hype:

"ANTARES The flagship in Shimano's low-profile baitcasting reel line-up, the Antares reels - offered in two gear ratios for multiple freshwater fishing techniques features the ultimate in long distance casting performance. With Shimano's innovative Micro Module Gear System, plus a lightweight Magnesium frame, it's built to be fished hard."

A magnesium frame is their selling point for this high end reel?

I could not care less. Don't need it. Don't want it. I am perfectly happy with my solid aluminum frames.

Micro gear system??? Fancy name for simple gear design changes like more teeth cut onto a circular metal disc to smooth out the retrieve even more than it already is.

My curados are smooth enough for me. I do not need any upgraded micro gear system. Means nothing to me.

One of the main upgrades to the antares is a more sophisticated braking system. Whoopie. I have no problems casting my curado and citica reels as they are with a less sophisticated braking system. So why would I need more sophistication at spin control? I don't.

And according to the specs on the shimano website, the high end top of the line antares reel offers 11 pound of drag while the citica offers 12 pounds of drag.

Hmmm... a higher end reel costing hundreds of dollars more money has less drag than a citica??? I surely do not need that!

So you know, it is just a matter of affordability at this point. Do I want to drive a cadillac or a Toyota Corolla??? Both do the same thing and get me where I need to go. But do I need all the bells and whistles???

I decided long ago I do not, but if others can afford it and want it then go for it!

My whole point remains... a free spinning spool in a curado or citica reel that I purchased for around $100 gives me the exact same casting distance that a free spinning spool does in a $500 Antares.

Both reels have the same thing at operation in a cast mode- a free spinning spool on 2 ball bearings mounted in a frame. One offers more sophisticated spin controls that I have decided I do not need for the extra dollars. End of story. I choose to drive a Corolla rather than a cadillac.

Bells and whistles and bling are not for me.

[FloridaFishinFool]

If they work for you, thats great. But if you are not familiar with tuning reels (yeah yeah I know you have 30 years experience) then you wouldnt get it.

I have been upgrading reels since the 80's and have polished the inside of more pinion gears than I can count and even spool axles and gears. What a waste of time all that was!

As for "tuning" my newer curado and citica reels, the axle of the spool does not even touch the inside of the pinion gear. So no need to polish anything.

The only thing I can do to these reels is put in better ball bearings and today all of my reels have ceramic hybrid ball bearings and scream when I cast them.

And I do get it. Which is why I am at where I am now at.

There is more to everything than just what you know of repairing and servicing reels. There are spools, bearings, gears (ratios and materials), handles, drags, interchanging parts for cosmetic purposes, different brake tabs (centrifugal) or brake magnets and rotors (magnetic), DC systems form Shimano, SV and 3D systems from Daiwa, and many other things that can factor into price and such for higher end reels. All can affect castibility and ease of use by the user.

The bells and whistles!

Spools? I know nothing about spools. Guess I don't get it. Reels have spools? (being a smartass here for humor)

My curado spools are drilled out about as much as they can be. Nothing to gain there really. Any more holes and there would be nothing to wind line on.

Beaings? Very familiar with those too. Got that covered. Yeah I get it.

Gears and ratios? Yep, got that one too. I have reels from 3.8 t0 7.3 and everything in between.

What has this got to do with casting? It doesn't.

Handles? Again, has nothing to do with getting one more inch of casting distance. Just another bell and whistle to blow money on. Scratch that one off the list.

Drags??? This is an area I am very familiar with. But again, has nothing to do with casting or distance of casts. Scratch this one off the list too. Another bell and whistle item.

Cosmetics??? Has nothing to do with casting and nothing to do with reel function. Another bell and whistle to scratch off the list. Not one penny for this bling stuff from me! And has nothing to do with "tuning" a reel either. Pure bling! Useless junk to me!

Brakes??? An important feature for sure. I have used just about every type ever made. And I really like the simplicity of the SVS infinity braking system. I generally use only one brake shoe turned on, 3 turned off, and the dial is usually set around 4. A bare minimum of spin braking. Very minimal indeed. I don't need any more than this. If others do, then buy it. I can cast all day long without problems, even into wind.

So why would I spend hundreds more for stuff I just don't need? I don't. and I won't. But if others want to then go for it! I am simply saying I have been there, done that and turned back from it and am much happier with more money in my pocket for other things is my whole point.

Hundreds of dollars are not buying me any more feet of casting distance, and with where I am at now I do not need any more distance. Even with braid and 7.3:1 reels when my lure hits the water I am having a tough time reeling in the slack for an instant hook set because it is that far out there. Any further and I will have to jump up in speed to take up the slack faster for instant hook sets.

So my issue now is not casting distance, it is in being ready for a strike way out at the end of the casts I make now.

But yeah, I have been tuning up reels as you call it for just as many years. Nothing new here.

[LgMouthGambler]

I just wasted time reading that. Yep, stick to your "basic" reels.

[FloridaFishinFool]

I just wasted time reading that. Yep, stick to your "basic" reels.

I will. I waste time reading a lot stuff around here too- this is what forums are for! But there is quite a bit of good fishing info though if nothing else and new lures to read up on! If I want bells and whistles and bling there is always TT!

Besides I get to meet a lot of really nice guys who turn into fishing buddies. So what could be better than that!

Forums are not a place for me to learn about reels that's for sure- I get enough of that from brand reps we are a factory service center for! These online forums are a great place for good casual friendly discussion is all. The best value I get here is new fishing buddies!

[LgMouthGambler]

I will. I waste time reading a lot stuff around here too- this is what forums are for! But there is quite a bit of good fishing info though if nothing else! If I want bells and whistles and bling there is always TT!

Waste a lot of time reading stuff around here? Wow, considering this is probably the site that is filled with the most USEFUL info compared to others. Well, I guess if you count a certain 430 posts since 1/2015 as useless. 

[FloridaFishinFool]

Sure, we all read stuff on these forums that provide no real life value. You just said the same thing for my posts. It is what it is!

I said the info I find useful is in fishing and new lures and best of all fishing buddies!

I don't need reel advice from this forum. I don't need rod advice from this forum. But I read it anyways- even yours. Think about how many people order a bag of lures and then run here to start an entire discussion thread over a bag of rubber worms. You know what I mean. Or, even hey everyone look at my new reel! Happens all the time. This is what forums are filled with.

So yeah, online forums are filled with a lot of useless info and posts we have to dredge through for the gems!

This is the truth!

It is just the nature of the beast.

[FISH520]

I like pretty reels 😛

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

[FloridaFishinFool]

I like pretty reels 😛

hehe... I am not a color matcher that is for sure! If I am looking at that while fishing I ain't fishin!

I remember reading on TT one day some guy made an entire thread post discussion asking everyone for advice on what blue reel he should buy to match his blue rod.

I almost answered back Shakespeare makes one!