Reel Chronicles...

[FloridaFishinFool]

We have been getting a boat load of Daiwa reels in lately. Here is a zillion that just came in with a failed level wind line guide... will probably get inside this one in a few days unless another tech gets it.

[FloridaFishinFool]

On the bench right now is yet another Daiwa. This one is a real cheapo model made in China of virtually all plastic. Even the frame is plastic.

And the owner of this reel does not want to pay for a full clean and lube, so he specifically requested us to just fix the problem... once the cast thumb bar is pressed, turning the handle will not re-engage the reel...

And judging from the loose handle and missing parts, it looks like the customer got into this reel himself and brought it into our shop in this condition...

I got this one at the end of the day, disassembled it, and said to heck with it for now... I am taking the boat and the boys and hitting the Winter Park chain of lakes today for some fun in the sun! We hit all six lakes too! And the island... lots of fun. And tomorrow after a cup of strong coffee then back into this cheap chinese Daiwa reel...

[FloridaFishinFool]

After taking off the side plate... take a look at all that rust! Gee, I guess even Daiwa reels have bearings that rust! Imagine that! No wonder the handle makes a grinding noise when turned... but hey, the customer said just fix the engage problem... yeah right. He knows it is a cheapo reel and does not want to spend more money on fixing this one than it is worth. Can't say as I blame him. So it looks like a little rust clean up is in order... but the engage problem is under this problem... definitely going to need a big cup of coffee first.

[FloridaFishinFool]

Now we are getting to the heart of this reel's terminal failure... And, technically it is not actually broken. It just does not work as it was engineered to work. I wonder why... Is it an engineering issue? Or, is it a construction issue??? Or, is it a materials issue. Could be all 3.

This reel worked fine for awhile, but now it does not because that trip lever will not swing into the trip gear that is underneath the drive gear. The spring looks fine. The lever looks fine. Even the hole in the clutch plate looks fine.

But there is wear. And that is causing this trip lever to turn at a slight angle binding it up. Well parts for this reel are no longer available... so it is going to take some tinkering with to see if it can be salvaged at all. But with each cast the owner makes, he will be wearing down the plastic more and more until the reel can not be salvaged unless brand new parts can be found and installed...

So with a hot cup of coffee and a few tricks, this reel might work again for awhile. But what we have here is really a not so hot design to begin with. The post on this trip lever only gets a 1/16" of an inch of plastic to keep it vertical. It is simply not enough.

In this same spot in most Shimano reels is 2 to 3 times the thickness of plastic the trip lever post inserts into the clutch plate. I have never had this problem with a Shimano reel.

But, what is actually happening inside this reel to cause this failure is due to years of use and wear on that hole the trip lever is inserted into, when new it stood straight up off the frame. Due to the wear inside the plastic hole, the trip lever is now leaning over- pushed over by the spring trying to push the lever into place, but now that it is leaning over, do you see that little raised lip on the underside of the trip lever??? The point is now able to catch the frame and hang up the trip lever in mid swing. It just stops just out of reach of the trip gear.

So tomorrow morning I will do one of two things... one is to shave down a little bit of the frame where the point of the raised trip lever is hanging up on. Since it is plastic it will be easy to trim down with a sharp razor knife. And if I have to, I could put the trip lever on a grinder and remove some of the point of that raised lip on it. Either way, I gotta make clearance so the trip lever can make its full swing and not hang up because it is now leaning over slightly. There is nothing I can really do to make that lever stand straight up again unless I can get a brand new clutch plate for this reel.

That should solve the problem for this reel until it wears down more past the point of no return. Then it will be time to throw this one away and go buy another reel.

These cheap chinese reels really are not worth putting money into them...

One of our customers recently had us clean and lube his cheapo Lew's reel that sold for like $40.00 on a combo setup. The reel was not worth repairing but he spent more to fix it than it was worth. But hey, it keeps the lights on...

My fastest reel repair today was an Abu 5600AB I think was the model. Complaint was it did not engage or trip once the cast button was pushed. I found the spool axle frozen/locked into the pinion gear. Took 30 seconds to get it out, polished the axle, and polished inside of pinion gear, put a drop of oil on it and out the door in less than 10 minutes...

Another one I actually got in trouble for doing because it had just come through the door. An old Penn spinning reel 4500SS. The AR did not work. It took only a few minutes to get it fixed and our counter lady called the customer to come get it. He said but I just left it there not 23 minutes ago. He said he had not even gotten back home yet. He was kind of miffed not at how fast it got fixed, but because he said he could of stayed at the shop and waited on it to be fixed. Sorry bud! My boss said didn't you look at the date on the ticket? Nope. I didn't. I just knew it was  a quick fix and easy money so I got it done and fast too. So now I am getting in trouble for being too fast. Oh well... must be the caffeine.

[FloridaFishinFool]

It is no secret I am not a fan of Daiwa baitcast reels and the reason is simple... I see a lot of them come across my workbench and I just don't care for how they feel or operate and break. And in the next few posts some of this will be crystal clear.

This first reel is not a particularly expensive reel at all so I guess the problem it developed is to be expected from a manufacturer trying to cut corner and cut production costs by making some internal parts really cheap. And that is what let this next reel down.

The problem it came in with was a simple one- when the owner pushed the cast button down it would cast fine, but when he went to turn the handle to begin his retrieve all the reel did was click, click, click, click. It would not disengage from the cast position.

The problem was that Daiwa made a really cheap clutch pawl. They made it out of pot metal and cast the part. But the anti-reverse ratchet gear was made out of real steel. So Daiwa put a soft metal into constant use contact with real steel. In other words, it was DESIGNED to wear out and it did.





Look what I found when I opened it up. This is exactly how I found it. One spring inside in the wrong place, a washer stuck to the side plate and the second spring was simply not there. Conclusion is that the owner of this reel attempted to fix it himself. So he caused more problems than he solved. Now his parts list was growing along with the repair price.

Another thing I notice in this reel is the addition of a steel bearing next to the AR bearing. My Shimano reels don't do this because it is simply not necessary. Daiwa has added an extra bearing, extra weight, and it really does nothing to improve anything with this reel. Daiwa could eliminate this bearing the same as shimano has and no one would miss it. But here it is anyway...



In the next image I show the drag washer stack taken apart as I found it. This image was taken showing the drag washer inside the gear was stuck to the gear as if glued on, and the same for the fiberglass washer on the ratchet gear. Stuck on like it was glued on. This mean the drag of this reel was only operating on 50% of the drag washer surface area. Only one side of each washer was functioning because the other side was frozen in place. And, there is reel grease all over the place, not drag grease. Problematic to say the least.

I had to use a razor blade to carefully separate the drag washers from the metal parts. These are some really cheap drag washers. If it were my reel I would replace them with something better, but for me this is a reel I would never own.



And now for the failure of this reel. On the left you can see the notched worn original part made of some really cheap pot metal. The ratchet gear wore it out. On the right is the brand new part about to be installed.

I have never seen in more than 30 years of working on reels this happen to any of my shimano reels or those I serviced over the years. Because Daiwa made one part out of cheap metal they built into one of their reels a part designed to fail and it did.

[FloridaFishinFool]

Ah yes, here is one for the record books. A broken reel with no broken parts! Imagine that! And a Daiwa zillion at that! How would you like for your 65 pound plus braid to wind up looking like this one did on a nearly $300 reel:



Problem: Line guide failure.

Again, no broken parts. So what in the world could be the problem? Well, this narrows it down to:

1)Abuse
2)Engineering
3)Materials
4)Tolerance issues from manufacturing and/or wear
5)Combination of the above.

The answer for this spectacular $280.00 reel failure was indeed a combination of all the above. It was in part a failure of the TWS "system" along with some user abuse and some age/wear tolerance issue that all resulted in a completely jammed line guide. And the key has a lot to do with the design of the TWS system along with how the user used or abused this reel.

Myself and a senior reel tech both examined and went over the issue with this reel and once taken apart and put back together it worked. None of the parts were damaged or worn enough to require replacement.

We both think user timing with use combined with the operation of the TWS system mechanism resulted in the severe jam it was forced into.

I guess I can add this one to my list of reels I shall avoid... as I would not want my reel jamming up on me when I set the hook on a big bass!

But do keep in mind, this particular problem was a first. Neither myself nor the senior reel tech had ever seen this problem before so it is a rare occurrence. A spectacular failure of the TWS system under extreme use/abuse.

But I will say this... it did not break, it just stopped working.

[FloridaFishinFool]

This past weekend I did some traveling around Florida making my rounds in some pawn shops and thrift stores looking for some great deals on some equipment to flip for a profit when I came across an unusual looking reel. At first I thought it must be a Daiwa  (kidding) but upon closer inspection I saw that it was a Johnson and the perfect reel for some thrift store display case in someone's living room! 

And no, I did not even think about buying it not for one second. Well for one I don't have a thrift store display case in my living room!  And for 2 I actually catch fish with my reels! 

But you know, if they had made this top of the line model in a lefty I might have considered it! 

[LgMouthGambler]

It is no secret I am not a fan of Daiwa baitcast reels and the reason is simple... I see a lot of them come across my workbench and I just don't care for how they feel or operate and break. And in the next few posts some of this will be crystal clear.

This first reel is not a particularly expensive reel at all so I guess the problem it developed is to be expected from a manufacturer trying to cut corner and cut production costs by making some internal parts really cheap. And that is what let this next reel down.

The problem it came in with was a simple one- when the owner pushed the cast button down it would cast fine, but when he went to turn the handle to begin his retrieve all the reel did was click, click, click, click. It would not disengage from the cast position.

The problem was that Daiwa made a really cheap clutch pawl. They made it out of pot metal and cast the part. But the anti-reverse ratchet gear was made out of real steel. So Daiwa put a soft metal into constant use contact with real steel. In other words, it was DESIGNED to wear out and it did.





Look what I found when I opened it up. This is exactly how I found it. One spring inside in the wrong place, a washer stuck to the side plate and the second spring was simply not there. Conclusion is that the owner of this reel attempted to fix it himself. So he caused more problems than he solved. Now his parts list was growing along with the repair price.

Another thing I notice in this reel is the addition of a steel bearing next to the AR bearing. My Shimano reels don't do this because it is simply not necessary. Daiwa has added an extra bearing, extra weight, and it really does nothing to improve anything with this reel. Daiwa could eliminate this bearing the same as shimano has and no one would miss it. But here it is anyway...



In the next image I show the drag washer stack taken apart as I found it. This image was taken showing the drag washer inside the gear was stuck to the gear as if glued on, and the same for the fiberglass washer on the ratchet gear. Stuck on like it was glued on. This mean the drag of this reel was only operating on 50% of the drag washer surface area. Only one side of each washer was functioning because the other side was frozen in place. And, there is reel grease all over the place, not drag grease. Problematic to say the least.

I had to use a razor blade to carefully separate the drag washers from the metal parts. These are some really cheap drag washers. If it were my reel I would replace them with something better, but for me this is a reel I would never own.



And now for the failure of this reel. On the left you can see the notched worn original part made of some really cheap pot metal. The ratchet gear wore it out. On the right is the brand new part about to be installed.

I have never seen in more than 30 years of working on reels this happen to any of my shimano reels or those I serviced over the years. Because Daiwa made one part out of cheap metal they built into one of their reels a part designed to fail and it did.

That reel is not made by Daiwa.

<")))>{

[LgMouthGambler]

Ah yes, here is one for the record books. A broken reel with no broken parts! Imagine that! And a Daiwa zillion at that! How would you like for your 65 pound plus braid to wind up looking like this one did on a nearly $300 reel:



Problem: Line guide failure.

Again, no broken parts. So what in the world could be the problem? Well, this narrows it down to:

1)Abuse
2)Engineering
3)Materials
4)Tolerance issues from manufacturing and/or wear
5)Combination of the above.

The answer for this spectacular $280.00 reel failure was indeed a combination of all the above. It was in part a failure of the TWS "system" along with some user abuse and some age/wear tolerance issue that all resulted in a completely jammed line guide. And the key has a lot to do with the design of the TWS system along with how the user used or abused this reel.

Myself and a senior reel tech both examined and went over the issue with this reel and once taken apart and put back together it worked. None of the parts were damaged or worn enough to require replacement.

We both think user timing with use combined with the operation of the TWS system mechanism resulted in the severe jam it was forced into.

I guess I can add this one to my list of reels I shall avoid... as I would not want my reel jamming up on me when I set the hook on a big bass!

But do keep in mind, this particular problem was a first. Neither myself nor the senior reel tech had ever seen this problem before so it is a rare occurrence. A spectacular failure of the TWS system under extreme use/abuse.

But I will say this... it did not break, it just stopped working.

In what way did it staop working in particular that it ended up with a birds nest in that you state the reel would jam up on you setting the hook?

<")))>{

[FloridaFishinFool]

In what way did it staop working in particular that it ended up with a birds nest in that you state the reel would jam up on you setting the hook?

The line guide pawl jammed up sideways.

The only thing that puts any side pressure on the line guide itself is the line. Now what conditions exist that put that much side pressure on a line guide? Some serious yanking. And at the wrong time when the pawl was in a worm gear crossover X crossing. Bam! Sideways and jammed up. And there was another complicating TWS factor in how it moves the line guide at certain times. It all added up for one big time jam up when the user needed it to work for him.

[FloridaFishinFool]

That reel is not made by Daiwa.

OK. I'll take your word for it. Whoever made it. I still would not own one even if it is only engineered by Daiwa.

[LgMouthGambler]

The TWS fault was more than likely cause by user abuse, not failure of the reel. There is no way a pawl will fold sideways on its own. Either the cap was backing out, or the person was really yanking at a bad angle to free a snag while holding their thumb on the spool.

<")))>{

[FloridaFishinFool]

The pawl did not fold. It turned out of position and no longer tracked in the worm gear.

No parts were replaced. They were repositioned and it worked again.

This zillion reel had a malfunction due in part to design.

And the pawl cover cap was on tight.

The TWS system failed in part due to design which allowed the failure brought on by the user asking it to do more than it could handle.

[Capt. BassinLou]

That Zillion looks like it was over spooled.

[FloridaFishinFool]

That Zillion looks like it was over spooled.

I agree the bird's nest as it came in did look that way, but once the line was untangled and respooled nice and tight it was below the rim of the spool.

Generally speaking if a spool is overfilled they are impossible to remove from the reel until some line is removed. This spool came right out once respooled nice and tight. But with a jammed up line guide the owner could only retrieve a growing bird's nest...

[TWBryan]

FFF,with what you know,what is a reliable modern reel for $100 budget? I was looking at a Daiwa Tatula,but I do not like the idea on pot metal parts working steel parts. Thanks!

[FloridaFishinFool]

Shimano Citica. Or, for $125 on ebay you can pick up a Shimano Curado i usually with free shipping.

[TWBryan]

FFF,thank you,the Shimano Citica is my runner up choice. I guess I will research the citica and see how it's built.

[FloridaFishinFool]

The Citica is basically just a less expensive Curado. They are about the same give or take a bearing or 2 and a couple of other parts difference. Both have aluminum frames. I just sold a Citica i used for $75.00 and threw in a couple of ceramic hybrid bearings for the spool. And I just promised a guy a Curado 201i for $100 used with a couple of ceramic bearings. So the deals are out there.

Here are the schematics for both reels:

Citica 200i:

http://dunphysports.com/forms/warranty/schematic/CI200I.pdf

Curado 200i:

http://dunphysports.com/forms/warranty/schematic/CU200I.pdf

[TWBryan]

Thanks again FFF, I'll look over the schematics. So far have not found a place where they have a good deal on the citicas.Looking through the site sponsors now..

[SFL BassHunter]

americanlegacyfishing has the curado 200i for 119.

[TWBryan]

Thanks Rick found it there. Tatulas are easy to get from ebay,the shimanos are proving more difficult/expensive.

[FloridaFishinFool]

Here is one for the cheesy display case!  This piece of junk is sitting on the bench waiting on someone- anyone- willing to work on it. I avoided this one all day yesterday skipping around it for Calcutta's and Curado's and stradics needing only a clean and lube job and absolutely zero repairs... and some of those reels are between 20 to 30 years old. But today someone is going to have to put this one back together.

A vintage 1986 bottom of the line Shimano Bantam B-100 Mag. Today this reel can be purchased off ebay in working condition for as low as $5.00. So why would anyone actually pay $30 for a clean and lube on a reel like this one??? Ugh. I may skip work today and just go fishing instead!

[LgMouthGambler]

Probably becuase someone really likes the reel, and expects you guys to do your jobs. 

[SFL BassHunter]

My guess is probably sentimental value, if it truly is a reel you can get for 5 bucks.

Someone should probably get to work on that.