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Author Topic: Rod Chronicles...  (Read 1177 times)

FloridaFishinFool

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Rod Chronicles...
« on: April 22, 2017, 08:09:45 AM »

This thread is for anything and everything related to rods... tips, suggestions, reminders, your favorite rod and why type of thing. Just anything about rods! The good, the bad, whatever...
« Last Edit: May 03, 2017, 07:42:57 PM by FloridaFishinFool »
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FloridaFishinFool

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2017, 07:43:14 PM »

I post this one as a reminder and an FYI type of thing...

Last week an old gentleman came into our shop with a sad story... he had stopped fishing for several years because of his own medical issues, and more importantly because he was caring for an ailing wife who has since passed on.

And so now he is free to return to his love of fishing. So he goes out into the garage and pulls out his favorite old fishing gear to get it ready for fishing once again. But there is a problem...

The old guy had simply left the reels on his rods and leaned them up in the corner of his garage and left them alone there for years.

So he comes into our rod and reel repair shop bringing with him his number one favorite custom rod his now deceased wife had given to him as a gift years ago. He wanted to know if we could straighten it for him as the tip was now permanently bent over to the side.

The point of this thread is to be careful of how you store your rods and reels. Leaning rods up in a corner with reels still on them lets gravity work against the rod's straightness.

And also back off the drag tension on reels after every use. I am constantly amazed at how many fishermen deliver reels to a repair shop- both spinning and baitcast reels- with the drag cranked down as tight as they can get it and then they leave it that way.

I find inside the reels drag washers flattened out permanently and needing to be replaced. This is the first thing I look at and check when picking up another reel in for repair. Locked down drag mechs are telling of what is to come...

For rods, I prefer a vertical storage method, either in a rack on a wall, or standing up in a bucket where the rod is supported at the butt end and nothing is putting pressure on the rod tips to bend at all.

A friend of mine put his rod rack on the ceiling out of the way which looks nice in his garage, but gravity can bend those rods too, especially since he hangs them up there often with weighted hooks and lures still hanging on them putting a slight bend on the tip of the rod right where he should be avoid any bending of the rod.

So just take this thread as a reminder of rod and reel storage considerations...
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FloridaFishinFool

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2017, 07:49:56 PM »

Another issue to be mindful of is rod tip replacement.

A lot of people do it themselves, but how many consider temperature of rod blank when doing it???

One of the most common methods is to use a lighter and heat glue. And lately at the rod shop we have had a rash of do it yourselfers come into the shop needing some help.

The problem a lot of them run into is that they heat the metal tip up so hot that the heat and higher temperature destroys the epoxy resins bonding the rod fibers together and their newly installed tip just snaps right off at the end of the metal where some good rod meets the melted rod inside the new tip.

So when doing it yourself be careful when heating up the new tip to just hot enough to melt the glue, but don't overheat it to the point of destroying the rod's epoxy resins. Just an FYI...
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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2017, 11:39:31 AM »

Another issue to be mindful of is rod tip replacement.

A lot of people do it themselves, but how many consider temperature of rod blank when doing it???

One of the most common methods is to use a lighter and heat glue. And lately at the rod shop we have had a rash of do it yourselfers come into the shop needing some help.

The problem a lot of them run into is that they heat the metal tip up so hot that the heat and higher temperature destroys the epoxy resins bonding the rod fibers together and their newly installed tip just snaps right off at the end of the metal where some good rod meets the melted rod inside the new tip.

So when doing it yourself be careful when heating up the new tip to just hot enough to melt the glue, but don't overheat it to the point of destroying the rod's epoxy resins. Just an FYI...

A tip like this is lost for ever in a thread that could get multiple pages long. With a "proper" title and it's own thread hundreds more will see it  :-* It will even get search engine rankings.
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FloridaFishinFool

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2017, 10:41:37 AM »

I was in mudhole today and for those of you living in central Florida who make their own custom rods... Mudhole has added hundreds of rod blanks to their clearance bin for $5.00 each or 5 blanks for $20.00!

First come first serve... I grabbed a few myself at that price.
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FloridaFishinFool

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2018, 01:25:39 PM »

I really enjoy my visits to mudhole and Get Bit Outdoors. I am lucky to live just minutes from both.

One of the things I love to check out are all the custom rods on display. Quite often they display rods that really were not built for fishing. Some are just wall art like this one:







I am addicted to spiral wrapped rods. I have been making my own for more than 25 years now and I have developed my own process for making this type of rod.



Needless to say it, but there are a lot of different ideas out there on how to make spiral wrapped rods... here is one I found on display at Mudhole that shows the first guide out or stripper guide is placed 10 degrees to the negative side of the spiral wrap because this rod maker is under the impression it solves the line stacking problem that really does not exist. So this rod is now 190 degree spiral wrap rather than the standard 180 degrees.

Also notice how the entire 190 degrees is accomplished in only 4 guides and less than 20% of the rod's length.

I don't do this with my own spiral wrapped rods shown below... notice that under load, the line flow in my spiral wrapped rods is darn near ruler straight through the 180 degree spiral wrap. To accomplish this I have learned to stretch out the 180 degree spiral wrap over 60% or 70% of the rod's length.

Most people who make spiral wraps will make the 180 degrees happen in less than 2 feet of rod length. This causes guide loading and increases friction due to sharp turns the line has to flow through in such a short spiral wrap, but we see this all the time...

The idea is to reduce friction by straightening out the line flow path through the guides while the rod is under load only. This requires more space. So I do my wraps from the reels all the way out to my first 180 degree guide on the underside. And it works well.



Use as much of the rod's length as possible for the 180 degree spiral wrap, not 2 feet or less. That defeats the purpose of building spiral wraps.

« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 01:30:12 PM by FloridaFishinFool »
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FloridaFishinFool

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2018, 09:35:44 PM »

Just finished up my 3rd spiral wrap this week.  This latest rod is an older super sensitive thin wall rod blank. This is what happens when fishing gets rained out!

Looking forward to putting the new rods into action!

« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 09:40:44 PM by FloridaFishinFool »
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FloridaFishinFool

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2018, 10:34:56 AM »

I'm holding off on posting more photos until I can get the image hosting issue straightened out...

For now though a subject near and dear to all of us... rod storage.

Just this year we have had two customers bring into our shop some rods they wanted repaired. Only the problem those rods have is not something we can repair for them.

In both cases we have elderly men in their 70's both had cancer and beat it and are now ready to get back to fishing after fighting cancer for 2 or 3 years. Both men improperly stored their rods.

One man thought he was clever in making a ceiling rack for his rods. His big mistake was that for 1) the rod supports were at the butt end and about a 1/3 of the way up the rod. This left more than half the rod length hanging horizontally.

It would not have been so bad if it were just the rod weight bending all these years, but no... this man left the lures on some with heavy weighted jigs and crawfish hanging off the tip.

His rods were hopelessly bent over at the tip. All 7 of them.

The other man had some custom rods made for himself some years ago before he got cancer. In his case he left the reels on the rods and simply leaned them up in a corner of his garage for all his years fighting cancer.

His rods were also hopelessly bent now.

Bent rods are not something that we repair. We don't. We don't even take in rods like that. All we can do is tell the customer to attempt a lengthy "repair" at home to reverse the damage if possible, otherwise, replace the rod.

When I store rods they do not have reels on them and I usually stand them up in a 5 gallon bucket because I don't have enough vertical wall racks or space for the rods, so 5 gallon buckets works fine. I also place a foam edge around the top of the bucket so the rods don't get scratched up. They are straight up and down with no weight bending any tips. In more than 40 years of fishing I have never ruined not one of my rods like these two customers did.

Correct simple rod storage can save money and aggravation down the road.
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redux

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2018, 09:04:44 PM »

Here's a link to that company that does spiral wrapped rods. Cliff Crochet is sponsored by them now. No more Falcon  ???

https://ducerods.com/
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FloridaFishinFool

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2018, 08:19:46 AM »

Thanks Z! I will check them out.
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FloridaFishinFool

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2018, 01:19:58 PM »

Saturday is the day for MudHole visits! Had the place to myself!









Think custom rods are expensive? Here is a custom MudHole rod with reel seat and handle already on blank, and it even has the tip installed. All that is left is a few guides and that's it!

$17 for a custom made MudHole rod!






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FloridaFishinFool

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2018, 01:27:30 PM »

Right by the front door are some awesome clearance items!









And you gotta love some of the ridiculous looking custom rods in there... some you can tell men did not make... I would not even fish with rods that look this! Seriously! Santa Claus and the elves rod?





And who wants rocks glued on a rod blank for a foregrip???



Some of the handles are kind of cool



And the Winn grips...





And another $100 wholesale order out the door!



Restocking for rod repairs and preparing to re-customize and already custom MudHole rod... more work...
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FloridaFishinFool

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2018, 10:20:54 AM »

Our shop recently took in a Dobyns rod for guide repairs. The customer wanted to know if the cork could be repaired too...



Finish coating separating from blank:







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FloridaFishinFool

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2018, 10:30:53 AM »



This post is 15 years in the making... I made myself a custom rod 15 years ago in a MudHole class and on this rod I did as I was instructed and within the year this rod was collecting dust in a corner unused now for more than 10 years because I did as told and used some heavy guides that threw off the balance of this custom rod to the point that I just sat it aside and moved on past it. A $200 plus custom rod unusable to me because of too much tip weight.

So I finally took the dive and stripped off the old heavy guides... making those first cuts took 15 years of talking myself into customizing an already custom rod... and now it will be turned into a spiral wrap with micro guides...



Here is another recommendation by our rod class teacher who told us to cover the sharp edge of the tip guide like this:



Needless to say it, but I no longer do this to any of my rods because it simply is not necessary and only adds more unnecessary weight where I do not want it.

So my new guides are now less than half the physical mass and weight of the old guides... really almost a 60% reduction in weight out on the tip of this custom rod...

New guides on left, old on right...

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Oldfart9999

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2018, 12:47:52 PM »

It's tempting to try a spiral wrap on an older rod.
Rodney
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FloridaFishinFool

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2018, 02:19:51 PM »

Go for it Rodney! They are awesome to use. Today I hardly use anything else. I rarely use a standard rod with guides on top.

But if you attempt one yourself there are some very specific steps to take to ensure the best possible outcome and results.

The key is guide alignment comes together only under load. Let the rod, line, and line flow show you how to build it.

Rod builders who impose a rigid set of rules on spiral wraps are missing the mark big time! So let the materials tell you how to do it, not the other way around... here is an example I did a few years ago that also missed the mark, but is getting closer and closer to ideal... the key is straightening out the line flow while under load...

« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 02:23:03 PM by FloridaFishinFool »
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SteelHorseCowboy

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2018, 07:23:30 AM »

Any of my rods and reels that won't be used for more than just a few days, I take the lure off, moreso just to put it back in my tacklebox rather than because of the weight, attach a speed clip of whatever sort is handy, hook that to the hook keeper, go ahead and crank it down a bit and put it in my rod rack. THEN I back the drag all the way off. That just helps keep the line straight and from getting snagged on the other rods or rod keepers while my clumsy self places it in the holder. Backing the drag off, as you said, is better for the rod and reel, but also helps avoid getting a kink in the line from being tensed over the tip. A kink can cause backlashes and a weak spot in the line. A very gentle pluck helps ensure there's no tension on the line.

The reels I use almost daily, the only difference is that I'm putting them in the trunk of my car rather than the rod holder at home. Other than that, I do the same thing.

For tip replacement, I rotate the tip several inches above a lit tea candle. I check it every few seconds with my fingertips until it gets just warm enough to be uncomfortable to the touch. Then a gentle twist and tug. Keyword: gentle. If it don't slide right off, a little more heat.
Then I use "liquid band-aid" to glue on the new one. It's practically the same thing as super glue without the harsh chemicals that I'd fear would damage the rod blank's tip. No idea if those chemicals would, I'm sure rod blanks have harsh chemicals involved in their construction, but better safe than sorry, right? Bonus, liquid band-aid can be found in a spray can, making it very convenient to apply without any sloppiness or squeeze out, and can easily be broken down with heat too. Tape off the area you don't want covered in glue, spray liberally, apply the new tip.
I don't cover those edges either. A properly fitting tip shouldn't snag the line. I did manage to yank off an improperly fitting tip during a cast.

I've used this spray can primer/paint on two rods after the clear coat has started peeling. I gently sanded the remaining clear coat off with fine paper, sprayed it down and let it dry, applied a second coat and let that cure completely, used the fine cloth for a finishing touch, then replaced the guides in a spiral wrap pattern.
That has chemicals in it that does break down some polymers, but on those rods, so far, so good.
I used low VOC clear nail polish to stick the guides on, wrapped them with a slightly elastic blue polyester thread applied with a bit of a stretch to ensure it was tight and even, then finished that off with the same nail polish. It doesn't get that smooth glossy look that epoxy does, but it does look pretty nice and weather seals it.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

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FloridaFishinFool

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2018, 02:13:53 PM »



For tip replacement, I rotate the tip several inches above a lit tea candle. I check it every few seconds with my fingertips until it gets just warm enough to be uncomfortable to the touch. Then a gentle twist and tug. Keyword: gentle. If it don't slide right off, a little more heat.

Then I use "liquid band-aid" to glue on the new one. It's practically the same thing as super glue without the harsh chemicals that I'd fear would damage the rod blank's tip. No idea if those chemicals would, I'm sure rod blanks have harsh chemicals involved in their construction, but better safe than sorry, right? Bonus, liquid band-aid can be found in a spray can, making it very convenient to apply without any sloppiness or squeeze out, and can easily be broken down with heat too. Tape off the area you don't want covered in glue, spray liberally, apply the new tip.

I don't cover those edges either. A properly fitting tip shouldn't snag the line. I did manage to yank off an improperly fitting tip during a cast.


SHC, I would not recommend using what you mentioned above for tip repairs.

First thing, the epoxies used in rod blanks are chemical resistant, so you won't have a problem there...

But the super glue or similar idea is not a good one for several reasons... for one, super glue cracks and is extremely rigid and cracks and breaks when it bends. So any flexing of the rod will steadily crack the glued connection.

I'd also be concerned as to how hot you would have to heat it up to remove a super glued on tip.

The rod blanks are heat sensitive. If anything can destroy the epoxy it is too high of a temperature.

So tip replacement using super glue is problematic if you ever have to replace it again down the road...

I prefer to use a heat glue. And not just any heat glue. You can judge the glue sticks by feel. If it is too hard and stiff avoid it. Look for pliable glue sticks that remain rubbery when cooled. Even a little sticky helps.

One of the best I have ever found was sold by Outdoor Angler a few years ago. It is excellent tip glue- at least the glue they sold once upon a time was. Not all heat glues are the same! See image below to see some differences between glues...





When I replace a tip on a rod I go through a process! A secret LMG process!  :o Kidding of course...

I first take a bit of sand paper, really fine sand paper and I roll it up like a lolypop stick small enough to slide down inside the new tip. I insert the rolled up sand paper into the brand new tip and begin to scuff up the inside wall of the tip tube. I want some small scratches in the smooth finish to give the glue a foothold to bite onto the inside of the tip tube better than just using it as is out of the box.

Once sanding is done I break out the side cutters- electronics side cutters with straight cutting edges, not angled cutting edges, and then I begin cutting off slivers of heat glue and push it down into the sanded tip tube.

Next I heat the tip up until the glue melts and begins to expand outside the tube and then I let it cool and set it aside.

Next, I look at the rod tip. I carefully remove any old glue and wipe the tip down good and may even lightly sand it a smidgen.

I then apply heat to the tip of the heat glue stick and get it melted and sticky and then roll the rod tip through it all the way around rod blank and on the tip too because if you have a hollow rod it can be open to water at the tip and it can get into rod blank through most rod tip guides. So I make sure to plug that hole with heat glue by putting some on the tip too.

Once I have a thin film of heat glue on the rod blank... and keep in mind I have not heated the rod blank at all so far! I then apply a little heat from a lighter or candle will work too. We use an alcohol burner at the shop- and I only melt the glue onto the rod blank but I am not heating the rod blank at all, well maybe a little warmth gets through but not enough to damage the epoxy in the rod blank.

Now I am ready to marry the two! But I apply the heat to the tip not the rod. Once the glue melts and is hot enough I slide the new tip onto the rod and the heat carried by the tip is enough to melt and move the glue on the rod and I go ahead and set the tip and quickly adjust it. If I mess up with the alignment I can slightly warm up the tip and rotate as necessary but don't do this too often too quickly because I don't want the heat to get to be too much for the rod blank.

Once this cools there is a doughnut ring of heat glue around the base of the tip that comes off real easy once cooled and the plug at the top pops off out of the tip easy too. Sometimes a little heat around the base will help to clean up any remaining heat glue.

The nice thing about doing it this way is the tip can be replaced more than once without damaging the rod blank.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 02:20:29 PM by FloridaFishinFool »
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SteelHorseCowboy

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2018, 09:20:00 PM »

Liquid band-aid is flexible, it's one of the other differences between it and super glue. It isn't as flexible as heat glue of course, but I don't feel that much flexibility is necessary when the tip of the rod blank is enclosed inside a properly fitting tip. The blank isn't really flexing any more than the small metal tube it's glued inside of.

The nail polish I've used on the guides actually is pretty darn flexible.

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FloridaFishinFool

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2018, 11:22:40 PM »

If it works for you that is all that matters! I can't argue with success.
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SteelHorseCowboy

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2018, 07:32:48 AM »

The tip I had yanked off was attached with heat glue, but like I said, it didn't fit right anyway. It was too big.
That was on the $2.99 Shimano spinning combo I picked up in the thrift store. I just threw on something I had lying around just to hurry up and try out the rod and reel.

I kinda regret giving that one away to the oldest boy, it was great for catfish.

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SteelHorseCowboy

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2018, 07:26:55 AM »

Maybe you can help me ID this one?
First line says "1302 Mark Twain Series"
Second line looks like "???? Power Butt International"
Magus? Magic? Magnum?
It's about 6'6", has 5 stainless Allan line guides counting the tip, long wooden grip with a rubber knob on the end, EVA foregrip, and I believe an aluminum seat.

I'm leaning towards Penn. I know they've made powercurve internationals and power stick internationals.
But no matter the combination of key words I type into google, I can't find any results for it at all!

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FloridaFishinFool

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2018, 03:54:22 PM »

My boss said back in the 80's there was a number of midwestern small companies that put out limited numbers of rods.

Unfortunately this one is not well marked, but look on the metal parts for more info.

I read something to this effect:

1302 Mark Twain series
Mayas? Majas? Power Butt Construction

is what I came up with. Not enough real info to identify with. How does it fish?

If you were closer I'd give you some rods like this one I have collecting dust in a corner that need some minor repairs...
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SteelHorseCowboy

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2018, 07:31:55 AM »

Best I've come up with is no good info either!
No markings at all on the metal parts, other than "ALLAN" on the line guides. In the last pic, you can see the pin in the reel seat just behind the foregrip.

It fishes fine for the way I use it. Hook and sinker, placed in a rod holder, bait clicker engaged on the Penn reel, and waiting. It's very flexible, not quite a buggy whip but not far from it. It absorbs shock very well.
I'm currently working on refurbishing it a bit. Just a good cleaning, refinish, and remounting the guides with silver thread.

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FloridaFishinFool

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Re: Rod Chronicles...
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2018, 01:56:14 PM »

Been going through my rods and trying to get rid of rods I no longer use... this next one is tough to let go.

This was top of the line Shimano in mid 1980's. A sturdy stainless steel reel seat...











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