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Author Topic: Baitcaster Brakes  (Read 985 times)

Bud Kennedy

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Re: Baitcaster Brakes
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2017, 02:37:51 PM »

So, are you two guys scoring this Urination Tournament of Volume or Time.  I think by now the OP has already figured it all out.
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LgMouthGambler

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Re: Baitcaster Brakes
« Reply #26 on: October 09, 2017, 02:39:42 PM »

Hey, leave us alone! We given some edumacation.  ~roflmao
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SteelHorseCowboy

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Re: Baitcaster Brakes
« Reply #27 on: October 09, 2017, 03:19:08 PM »

Drum brakes been gone 50 years. Disc brakes have one caliper that grabs in one place on the rotor.  ::)
Drums are still around on a lot of trucks. Disc brakes have one caliper, that grabs from both sides of the rotor.
Drums are also still around on a lot of cars in their rear brakes.

Also, until we see disc brakes in fishing reels, drum brakes in the automotive industry are just the better comparison ;)
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SteveTX

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Re: Baitcaster Brakes
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2017, 06:01:27 PM »

Drums are still around on a lot of trucks. Disc brakes have one caliper, that grabs from both sides of the rotor.
That grabs from both sides of the rotor in one place on the rotor. Not at two opposing places around the rotor. The stopping force is applied to one position on the spinning disc. A lot like 1 brake being applied in one place on a reel. If I understand you correctly you believe the stopping force is to be applied by brakes on opposite sides of the spinning object to it is

Drums are also still around on a lot of cars in their rear brakes.

Yes drum brakes are still used they are cheaper considering getting 4 wheel disc are a option upgrade on trucks and cars. You don't see drum on the cars that call for top dollar and need to stop consistently and quickly. ie Corvettes,  Acura NSX, Aston Martin Vanquish, Audi R8, Ferrari 488 GTB, Lamborghini Aventador. , McLaren 650S, Mercedes-AMG GT, Porsche 911 Turbo etc etc. Trucks included as my 2005 1/2 ton had the disc option on the rear. Cost more $ though.  ;D
Also, until we see disc brakes in fishing reels, drum brakes in the automotive industry are just the better comparison ;)
Drum brakes are better for who? You guys?  lo  Disc is the modern considerably better brake and just as well used for comparison in a fishing reel braking discussion as any car drum brake. The next time I see drum brakes on the front end of any new mass produced car Ill drop my disc brake theory. Don't hold your breath those death traps aren't happening. You know why because you cant get them to consistently apply equal pressure. Sound familiar to a subject we are discussing?  ~shade

Urination Tournament ? 
Reel brake setting discussion has no score. Dont worry Bud didn't you know all the participants get trophies these days  ~roflmao

OK Ill quit messing with you guys playing devils advocate. I am seriously interested to know the facts about running 1 brake though as I do this. :(  You guys make good arguments against it and it has me interested to know. So I have sent emails off to a few technical departments of reel manufacturers to hear from them. If I get a response I will post it up.                                         

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LgMouthGambler

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Re: Baitcaster Brakes
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2017, 07:39:11 PM »

Cool. Curious as to what they say myself. Good call.

<")))>{

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SteelHorseCowboy

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Re: Baitcaster Brakes
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2017, 08:44:04 PM »

Curious to see what they say too.
By the way, when I said "better", I was saying drum brakes in a car/truck are a better comparison to the style of braking system in a reel, not saying they're better than disc brakes.

As for disc brakes, one caliper, etc, etc...
As LMG pointed out, that one caliper grabs from both sides. So once again... symmetry! The symmetry is just applied differently because it's a different design.

Besides, this invalidates the ever loving hell out of your argument! Lol!



Bud, I'm going for time, volume, AND distance! Haha!

Symmetry!
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MarkusBett18

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Re: Baitcaster Brakes
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2017, 08:53:52 PM »

 ~c~ I'm feeling smarter after reading all this  ~c~
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SteveTX

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Re: Baitcaster Brakes
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2017, 10:33:43 PM »

Curious to see what they say too.
By the way, when I said "better", I was saying drum brakes in a car/truck are a better comparison to the style of braking system in a reel, not saying they're better than disc brakes.

As for disc brakes, one caliper, etc, etc...
As LMG pointed out, that one caliper grabs from both sides. So once again... symmetry! The symmetry is just applied differently because it's a different design.
In the reel the brakes are positioned evenly spaced around the moving object. There is no clamping force just drag. Using the drag as the means to slow the spinning object from different positions around the spinning object is what we are trying to determine is better or worse depending on the number of points of drag. Equally spaced points of drag (brakes) would give you the symmetry you speak of.

I was just saying that a disc brake (a superior design in brakes) uses a single point of contact be it on both sides or one the full circumference of the spinning disc has only one point of drag to slow it. Just like a single brake on a reel. To be symmetrical it would need two calipers like the picture you posted.   

Besides, this invalidates the ever loving hell out of your argument! Lol!


This picture you provided proves(validates) exactly my point that mass produced factory disc brakes use a single (not symmetrical) point of contact to slow the disc.  This picture below is a typical factory disc brake that is on millions and millions of cars. Using a single point of contact in the circumference of the spinning object. Not symmetrical no matter how you look at it. 
By your aftermarket design picture you show what a symmetrical disc brake setup would look like. Thank you for providing a visual of symmetrical like having 2 brakes on in a reel opposing each other. Although generally speaking of your picture the majority of the times this setup is used the second set of calipers are not for general braking. Typically the added caliper is a emergency brake unless this is some really freaky one off custom setup. I've built quite a few narrowed rear end housings removing factory drum brakes and switching to disc. Having a separate system for the emergency brake is critical in the event of the normal brakes failing. Thus having a completely separate 2nd caliper. It has nothing to do with symmetry in braking. Your claim was invalidated.  ::) lo 

Bud, I'm going for time, volume, AND distance! Haha!
Again for the record everyone is getting the same damn these days. There are no winners even in a contest.
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Oldfart9999

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Re: Baitcaster Brakes
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2017, 07:28:01 AM »

Drums are still around on a lot of trucks. Disc brakes have one caliper, that grabs from both sides of the rotor.
Some have 2 calipers with 2, 4, or 6 pistons and they have 2 pads. Confusing?
Rodney
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SteelHorseCowboy

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Re: Baitcaster Brakes
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2017, 10:22:05 AM »

See? Symmetry!

Steve, the braking force is actually applied symmetrically on disc brakes, even with one caliper, because of how and where the force is applied in relation to it's rotational axis. Because the braking force is provided by applying pressure on both the front and back of the disc equally.
An example of asymmetrical braking on a disc brake would be a caliper that only applies pressure to one side of a disc brake at one point.

As far as comparing reel brakes to automotive drum brakes, I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say there, but they're pretty much the exact same concept operationally. The only differences really are the amounts of force you apply, how much mass you're slowing down, and the fact that in a car the drum spins while the shoes stay stationary, and in a reel the brake blocks spin while the drum stays stationary.
The concept of a moving pad/shoe pressing outward towards the inner surface of a drum remains the same.
Now, in a car drum brake, having only one shoe would push the drum from it's rotational axis, which will induce pulling to one side or the other, vibration, or simply trashing that brake. Same as if there were a brake caliper applying a single pad to only one point on one side of a disc brake.
Gyroscopic effects.

The reason I personally don't think using only one brake in a reel will cause a major problem is because of the amount of mass involved and the support along the length of the rotational axis.

I want a bigger trophy.
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SteveTX

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Re: Baitcaster Brakes
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2017, 11:36:36 AM »

I just got a response from Shimano. I presented the question,"Concerning the brakes on your baitcasting reels I was told never only use a single one on. Is this true?"  Through their online tech support. I got this very elegant long winded response.  lo

Quote from: FishSiteFeedback@shimano.com
No not at all

Thanks
Based on that response any Shimano owner should be able to use any combination or pattern of brakes available on your reels down to 1 or all on. 
As LMG said "edumacation" is being served. No trophy necessary just went to the manufacturer. ~roflmao

Feel free to ask the same question if you want to verify. Shimano Contact Us Form
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LgMouthGambler

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Re: Baitcaster Brakes
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2017, 12:03:50 PM »

I just got a response from Shimano. I presented the question,"Concerning the brakes on your baitcasting reels I was told never only use a single one on. Is this true?"  Through their online tech support. I got this very elegant long winded response.  lo
Based on that response any Shimano owner should be able to use any combination or pattern of brakes available on your reels down to 1 or all on. 
As LMG said "edumacation" is being served. No trophy necessary just went to the manufacturer. ~roflmao

Feel free to ask the same question if you want to verify. Shimano Contact Us Form


I wonder how long it took that person to come up with that detailed answer.  ~roflmao
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SteveTX

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Re: Baitcaster Brakes
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2017, 03:56:27 PM »

I wonder how long it took that person to come up with that detailed answer.  ~roflmao
Dont figure it took to long. So out of insane curiosity I sent another request. It read."Thank you for your response. Just to clarify. Is there any case where running 1 brake would be a issue period?"
Hold your breath on this response.  lo

Quote from: FishSiteFeedback@shimano.com
No I run 1 break n the majority of my reels to get optimal cast
 
Thanks
They typed so fast he/she left the "o"  off of on.  ~roflmao


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MarkusBett18

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Re: Baitcaster Brakes
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2017, 04:08:26 PM »

 ~c~
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LgMouthGambler

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Re: Baitcaster Brakes
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2017, 04:13:33 PM »

Anybody contact Daiwa?  ~roflmao

Im kidding, they use magnetics.  lo
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MarkusBett18

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Re: Baitcaster Brakes
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2017, 04:54:25 PM »

Anybody contact Daiwa?  ~roflmao

Im kidding, they use magnetics.  lo

 lo
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SteelHorseCowboy

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Re: Baitcaster Brakes
« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2017, 06:47:11 AM »

This has me laughing a lot harder than it should!
The service tech's responses are far, far better than most of the English Comp essays I had to grade in college.
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