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Author Topic: So, you've bought a carry weapon  (Read 1138 times)

Wizard

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So, you've bought a carry weapon
« on: January 11, 2018, 07:39:14 PM »

During my time on UB, several people have asked me for tips on shooting a hand gun. I have been reluctant because not every person who carries a gun will be able to fire and kill someone. During the Vietnam War, 3 out of 10 troops couldn't fire with a person in their sights. Those same people will not be able to fire their carry weapon. If you aren't sure you can fire and kill----don't purchase the weapon. Note the Disclaimer and let's carry on.
Everyone learns the basic grip, stance, 60/40 push/pull with the hands--all the basics. One thing most aren't taught(or they don't listen) is the most important for accuracy. Trigger finger control. If you jerk, try to fire too fast, or use any part of the finger other than the tip, you WILL pull the round off target. A first miss may be your last.
Finger Control: no magazine or rounds in the weapon. Line up the target and gently pull the trigger with the hammer back. Pull evenly until the hammer goes forward. Look at the target and see where the barrel is pointing. Keep doing this until you remain on target. Go to the range and shoot with ammo. If you hit the target and the barrel returns to the target, you are ready to carry.
For the rest of the post remember that most weapons are used at very close range. This dictates a different way of shooting than you learned in class. Now for some hints from a man who did it for a living  and is still alive.

1) Learn to shoot from the low and high carry positions. Low carry is just clearing the holster and high carry is both hands on the weapon carried close to the chest. If the person is less than 10 ft. away, fire immediately out of the holster. At that range, you will hit the target if you have practiced a little. High carry is used when the weapon is in your hands and you are startled. Move your eyes to their chest and fire the weapon. Practice until you can hit the chest at 20 ft.
2) Take the sights off your weapon. Sights may cause the weapon to hang on a shirt or holster. It takes time to find the front sight and many panic trying to line up their shot. Do this: line the top of the barrel with the target and center in the width of the gun. Pull the trigger, you will hit your target out to 30 yards.
3) Rounds: know how many rounds are in your weapon. When you start firing your weapon, count each round fired in your mind. Reload! Don't lose time waiting to pull the trigger and it doesn't go bang.
4) Learn to fire from cover: learn to shoot single handed--both strong and off hand. You want to show as little of yourself as possible. One handed shooting allows you to keep most of your body protected.
5) The thing that gets you killed: you can't pull the weapon from the holster without fumbling it. You were a great shot, you were fearless, you were once alive. If you don't practice drawing the weapon, over and over, until it is ingrained into your body and mind, the odds are you will fumble the weapon under duress.
There are lot of advanced tips to winning a gun fight. If you liked this and want me to continue, let me know. Oh, if you can't carry and do the things I've suggested, carry anyway. The holster will help keep your pants up.

Wizard
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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2018, 07:59:15 PM »

Wiz, Thank you for sharing this.... EXCELLENT READ  ~c~
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D.W. Verts

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2018, 08:24:31 PM »

Very good, Wiz. As someone who grew up with guns as just another everyday tool, I always had a hard time comprehending that there are folks who are strangers to firearms.

And I myself hope I'm never put into the position of firing on a human. But if it ever happens, there will be no hesitation, period.
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Polaris425

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2018, 08:15:46 AM »

good stuff... thanks for sharing.
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Captsteve

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2018, 12:55:53 PM »

Very good, Wiz. As someone who grew up with guns as just another everyday tool, I always had a hard time comprehending that there are folks who are strangers to firearms.

And I myself hope I'm never put into the position of firing on a human. But if it ever happens, there will be no hesitation, period.
same here

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2018, 09:20:13 PM »

Good information, thanks.
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Fun4me

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2018, 08:44:59 AM »

Good post, but I've never heard someone advocate removing the sights, and I certainly wouldn't do it. YMMV.
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Wizard

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2018, 09:26:08 AM »

There are reasons not to use sights. I'm planning one or two more posts on shooting tips. You can shoot and hit a man sized target at 50 yards without sights,
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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2018, 01:15:06 PM »

Great Post Wiz. I hope you decide future posts are worth your time. If nothing else you could keep a guy out of the hands of someone that would just get killed with it. If you're not willing to fire back, the other guy will be.

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Lipripper

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2018, 02:39:36 PM »

Wizard thanks for a lot of good information . ~c~ ~c~
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SteveTX

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2018, 02:42:09 PM »

First thing as a little kid on the farm I was tought respecting the firearm. 2nd thing was never pull or point a gun at anyone you didnít 100% intend to kill.
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coldfront

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2018, 03:04:04 PM »

First thing as a little kid on the farm I was tought respecting the firearm. 2nd thing was never pull or point a gun at anyone you didnít 100% intend to kill.

on our farm, it was 'anything' we didn't intend to kill.

appreciate the post and the thoughts and the tips.  agreed.

I'd also say, that if you don't have a gun, but all you have is a baseball bat, the same advice holds:  don't be holding back and taking half measures.
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SteveTX

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2018, 06:04:48 PM »

on our farm, it was 'anything' we didn't intend to kill.

appreciate the post and the thoughts and the tips.  agreed.

I'd also say, that if you don't have a gun, but all you have is a baseball bat, the same advice holds:  don't be holding back and taking half measures.

That was the same thing I meant, I didn't word it maybe as accurately. Should have said "never pull or point a gun at anything you didnít 100% intend to kill."
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Fun4me

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2018, 10:43:41 PM »

There are reasons not to use sights. I'm planning one or two more posts on shooting tips. You can shoot and hit a man sized target at 50 yards without sights,

Maybe so, but you are the only person I've ever heard recommend that. I liked everything else about your post though.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 10:51:47 PM by Fun4me »
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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2018, 02:32:07 AM »

Instinctive shooting probably deserves to have it's own thread sometime, but instinctive shooting is a technique of taking on a target without using sights. It works.

Here's a real easy way to prove it to yourself. Pick a target in the room, take the cat's laser pointer and without pressing the button point it at an object across the room, then press the button. Most people will find they can put the laser on the target before turning it on. There's no sights on it, you just know where it's going to hit. Instinctive shooting works the same way.

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Fun4me

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2018, 07:13:07 AM »

Instinctive shooting probably deserves to have it's own thread sometime, but instinctive shooting is a technique of taking on a target without using sights. It works.

Here's a real easy way to prove it to yourself. Pick a target in the room, take the cat's laser pointer and without pressing the button point it at an object across the room, then press the button. Most people will find they can put the laser on the target before turning it on. There's no sights on it, you just know where it's going to hit. Instinctive shooting works the same way.

There's a big difference between "Poiunt/instinctive" shooting and removing sights IMO. I've studied and practiced both "point" shooting and "sight" shooting. I personally think both methods are valid, and both have their place. But again, i know of no one that promotes point shooting advocating removing sights, not for experts and certainly not for beginners. 
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coldfront

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2018, 08:37:41 AM »

There's a big difference between "Poiunt/instinctive" shooting and removing sights IMO. I've studied and practiced both "point" shooting and "sight" shooting. I personally think both methods are valid, and both have their place. But again, i know of no one that promotes point shooting advocating removing sights, not for experts and certainly not for beginners.

fair points.  just think the key not being discussed at this point is that practice/improvement goes far beyond just being able to hit what you aim at.  it's also technique, familiarity with DEPLOYING the weapon.

if in the routine practice, you find your sights at times impede that process, there would certainly be evidence that 'something needs to change'.  Holster?  sights?  something.

the point being made, I thought:  when fractions of seconds can matter, these things magnify in importance.


Thanks Wizard.  I don't spend nearly enough time with guns.  Very useful and thought provoking post!

the only thing else I might be able to add:  when I hurry 'fast' I make mistakes.  when I hurry 'slow' (efficiently) I don't.  Practice is critical.
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Fun4me

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2018, 08:48:56 AM »

fair points.  just think the key not being discussed at this point is that practice/improvement goes far beyond just being able to hit what you aim at.  it's also technique, familiarity with DEPLOYING the weapon.

if in the routine practice, you find your sights at times impede that process, there would certainly be evidence that 'something needs to change'.  Holster?  sights?  something.

the point being made, I thought:  when fractions of seconds can matter, these things magnify in importance.


Thanks Wizard.  I don't spend nearly enough time with guns.  Very useful and thought provoking post!

the only thing else I might be able to add:  when I hurry 'fast' I make mistakes.  when I hurry 'slow' (efficiently) I don't.  Practice is critical.

Completely agree that if there is something keeping one from getting their weapon into the fight, those things should be looked at. In the case of the sights "might" get snagged, I would consider a clothing change and practice before advocating removing the sights. 
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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2018, 08:53:56 AM »

I tend to agree with not advocating the removal of sights. Sure on a personal level if you want to use a bench grinder to take them off its your prerogative go ahead, but for practicality leave them alone. No one says you have to use them when instinctive shooting. 

I agree coldfront
Quote
if in the routine practice, you find your sights at times impede that process, there would certainly be evidence that 'something needs to change'.  Holster?  sights?  something.
This is what I am thinking as well. I do not find the sights on modern day smaller personal protection style guns to be the problem.
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Wizard

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2018, 10:18:19 AM »

I don't mind differences of opinion as it is YOUR life depending on your skills. In real life, fractions of a second do make a difference. I wasn't preparing for a thug with a gun but someone like myself who is also looking for an edge. I learned some things myself, some from colleagues and a lot from my mentor. Also, my practice was different from most. I fired several hundred rounds a week with at least half being from my carry weapons. We had a tactical range which I used a couple of times a month. I did this even after I was behind a desk. You may be the best shooter around, the most careful and have reflexes like a cat. BUT, sometimes the opponent gets lucky. Someone got lucky on me. I've got to tell you, it hurts--a lot. That is why you are always looking for an advantage and why you practice.
I will write another thread. Some of the tips you may not agree with. At 70 years old, will I need these skills again? Probably not but St. Louis is a dangerous place.

Wizard

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Fun4me

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2018, 10:51:31 AM »

Looking forward to you next write up, as I'm still not sure what you're trying to get across with the remove your sites recommendation. I see no advantage to removing the sights, for the reasons you've specified, that proper equipment and moderate training can't overcome.

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2018, 10:57:58 AM »

Looking forward to you next write up, as I'm still not sure what you're trying to get across with the remove your sites recommendation. I see no advantage to removing the sights, for the reasons you've specified, that proper equipment and moderate training can't overcome.

Fun4me, you've made your point and argued it. Everyone else has as well. Move on.
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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2018, 11:03:28 AM »

Fun4me, you've made your point and argued it. Everyone else has as well. Move on.

I did move on, when I said I was Looking forward to the next write up. No need to scold me.
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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2018, 12:27:17 PM »

There is a big difference between a shooter and those that carry to include L.E.Oís

Enjoyed your thoughts Wiz I agree in taking every advantage you can

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Re: So, you've bought a carry weapon
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2018, 12:29:42 PM »

I did move on, when I said I was Looking forward to the next write up. No need to scold me.

You couldn't say, looking forward to your next write up without making a statement again. That's why you were scolded. I'll say it again, move on.
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