Prop hub gave up, time for another prop ?

[SteveTX]

OK I bought my SeaArk ZX180 (18ft aluminum v hull) boat a couple years back and it had a Ballistic brand stainless prop size 13 1/8 X 22. My engine is this Johnson 2000 115hp 2 stroke
With this prop it ran loaded with gear and 2 grown men 49-50mph on GPS turning 5200rpm.

After the other days fishing I ripped the hub out of it. The prop already had some wounds that probably had done some damage to the hub over the years. Either way I was needing a inexpensive fix. I contacted Steve's Custom Props and found that the stainless prop I had was one of the lower end brands and that a complete repair of my prop would run me about $200. I was told that I could buy a similar prop off the internet new for that same money.

So after doing some internet looking I went to my local boat shop and found that the type prop I had, had to be sent off to be repaired. Again it was a $200 estimate. I told the guy I just want a prop that will take me fishing no hot rod, no tournament stuff, just leisure fishing. He says well we have a couple of reconditioned props that might fit your engine. So we went and looked.

Come to find out he has a 13 1/2 x 22 Raker stainless prop that is ready to go. He is asking $200 but there is zero wait time as its sitting right here. I did some underhanded sad face and a few tears may have swelled in my right eye when he dropped the price to $150. He started saying Rick the owner was going to kill him probably. I told him to put it back I wanted to run to the bank but as he is talking about the owner going to kill him I decided to pull out the plastic.

So now I own this Raker prop that is slightly bigger. Looks a whole lot different to me. Just wondering what do you guys think the biggest change will be? Will I even notice?




Here is what it replaced


Aww heck Im going to the lake to see what I think.

[FloridaFishinFool]

Here in Florida it costs about $50.

[Deadeye]

Only thing you can do Steve is try it and see.

Make sure it turns without hitting anything (try to estimate any flex in the fins) and if it clears good try it.

You should know pretty quickly if it's going to work for you or not.

[Mike Cork]

A couple things.

A raker likes to run closer to the surface of the water, most boats require raising the motor to get the most out of a raker. They also bite harder so your RPM's will probably drop until you raise the motor.

The Raker is a very good prop and will probably increase your speed a mph or two, but the bite will help in handling.

[SteveTX]

Well I was underwhelmed. Not happy at all with the performance. I lost 1200rpm and 10 mph. Its a dog out of the gate and a dog trimmed up wide open.

I think Mike may be on to something as what he says.

They also bite harder so your RPM's will probably drop

This is exactly what I picture in my head. Of course I didnt know, and still dont know if this is the real thing that is going on but it makes sense.

I'm going to have to check the motor height to see if I'm close or what my options are. Any idea on what I should be trying to set the height at?

[Princeton_Man]

A couple things.

A raker likes to run closer to the surface of the water, most boats require raising the motor to get the most out of a raker. They also bite harder so your RPM's will probably drop until you raise the motor.

The Raker is a very good prop and will probably increase your speed a mph or two, but the bite will help in handling.

Mike knows his Rakers! 

[Deadeye]

Well I was underwhelmed. Not happy at all with the performance. I lost 1200rpm and 10 mph. Its a dog out of the gate and a dog trimmed up wide open.

I think Mike may be on to something as what he says.  This is exactly what I picture in my head. Of course I didnt know, and still dont know if this is the real thing that is going on but it makes sense.

I'm going to have to check the motor height to see if I'm close or what my options are. Any idea on what I should be trying to set the height at?

Average advise is set at 3 1/2 inches down and adjust from there. That's Prop to Pad height.

[SteveTX]

Average advise is set at 3 1/2 inches down and adjust from there. That's Prop to Pad height.

Okay I'll check it

[Bud Kennedy]

Steve if you go to steve's custom prop website, he used to have a great pictorial and instructions to determine prop to pad height correctly.

[Princeton_Man]

Okay I'll check it

Here you go.

[SteveTX]

Just a question. I have no "jack plate" my motor has slots on the bottom bolt holes and several bolt holes for the top bolts. I'm assuming If adjustments are needed these are how I would adjust mine?

One other thing is it possible that this adjustment if necessary will make up for the 10mph I lost and the sluggish take off?

[Princeton_Man]

Hole shot should improve once the prop is high enough to get some slip but, I doubt it will make 10mph difference. Particularly without a jackplate because you have limited amount of adjustment.

[Bud Kennedy]

Just a question. I have no "jack plate" my motor has slots on the bottom bolt holes and several bolt holes for the top bolts. I'm assuming If adjustments are needed these are how I would adjust mine?

One other thing is it possible that this adjustment if necessary will make up for the 10mph I lost and the sluggish take off?

Steve I think you will find that you are too deep and moving up a hole or two might bring you into proper balance.  Still gotta know what your current prop to pad is and that might define how far up or down you may have to go.

[Princeton_Man]

I'm not sure I'd spend much time on it without a jackplate. I'd do the measurements and see where the prop shaft is. If it looks like you have the holes and can raise it enough to change the performance maybe give it a try.

I know nothing about Turning Point Props or their selector tool but, I used it to get an idea of what would go on that rig. Looks like 19-22 is the prop pitch. It may be possible that the boat's previous owner has done all the homework and the prop you originally had is the best for that rig.

You can have 6 different 22P props and all 6 will perform differently. Different rakes, cupping, diameter, venting... etc. Something else to consider is that if your old prop was dinged up, it wasn't performing at 100%. You might save a lot of hassle and be a lot better off to have your original prop repaired by a good prop shop.

[SteveTX]

I have a 15" pad to ground and a 7.5" center of prop shaft to ground measurement. This comes to a 7.5" pad to prop shaft measurement. 

I looked at the adjustment I have and found the motor is as deep as it can go. Which would be a good thing if there was enough adjustment to go up 3.5" but I only have 2" of adjustment up.


Princeton_Man that Turning Point Props selector tool gave me 2 options 13.25 X 21 for speed and 13.25 X 19 for watersports and loads. Not sure that is super accurate as I went pretty fast with some of the options.

I think I am going to go back to the shop where I bought it and see if they will let me return it and send off my original prop to Steve's custom prop. Depending on cost of course but I already know Steve's custom prop said it would be $200ish. Well I am already at $150+ . I already know if my other prop is fixed it works well without a jackplate or raising the motor. Its just going to cost me most of a day driving there waiting and driving back but I should have a well working prop I can just bolt on and go.

Thank you all for the help.

[Princeton_Man]

I think I am going to go back to the shop where I bought it and see if they will let me return it and send off my original prop to Steve's custom prop. Depending on cost of course but I already know Steve's custom prop said it would be $200ish. Well I am already at $150+ . I already know if my other prop is fixed it works well without a jackplate or raising the motor. Its just going to cost me most of a day driving there waiting and driving back but I should have a well working prop I can just bolt on and go.

Thank you all for the help.

I think that's a wise decision Steve. That Raker looks pretty good from what I can tell from the pictures. If he won't take it back, you shouldn't have any trouble flipping it. They're getting $200 for them in the various prop selling groups.
It is a good idea to have a spare prop. Even if it's nothing fancy. Just for times like this so you won't be kept off the water while the good one is repaired.

Another side note and this is just my opinion here; I'd raise that baby up the two inches anyway. It's bound to improve performance a little and could help save a little wear on your prop.

[fishandkamp]

Well let me add my experience with your prop. The fact is an original Ballistic prop was not a high dollar prop. Do not think for a minute that makes it a "junk" or less desirable prop.  Atwood originally owned the brand and that design was bought out by Michigan Wheel. They decided it was worth continuing to make that prop.  The new ones cost around $200 to $300 new from the internet.  Like many new props they use a replaceable hub kit.  I ran a 1998 Mercury 200 EFI on my ProCraft 205 Pro Combo fish and ski boat. At that time ProCraft was owned by Brunswick Marine, so they had direct access to Mercury and its latest goodies. When I purchased the boat it rigged with a 200 EFI large hub gear case motor. They matched it up with one of the first Trophy large hub vented props. It cost $600.  I tore it up about 3 years later and they had stopped making my prop in the big hub. I tried several Merc props and hated the way it ran compared to the other prop.  Finally I needed a prop to go on vacation with and purchased a Ballistic. Man that boat never handled or ran as well as it did with the Ballistic.

As for Turning Point they make really nice props and sell them for a very reasonable price. I choose not to run a stainless prop due to the dangers I run here on the Chesapeake Bay tidal rivers.  I would rather sacrifice a $150 prop than the lower unit.  That does not mean I do not want performance. I run one of  their Hustler props. It is a performance designed vented prop with a bunch of cup. It works very well.

So if it were me I would call Michigan Wheel and get the part numbers for the new version of your prop and the part number of the hub kit. Overtons has good prices on them as do some others. If you want to try a Turning Point stainless their prop finder is pretty close to correct. At least that is what I found.   

[SteveTX]

OK we found the biggest part of the problem. The owner came in and helped sort out the situation. Either I or the fella that sold me the prop got or gave bad information to one another. Turns out my original prop was only a 21 not a 22. The Prop he sold me was a 22.

What ever happened was just a mistake. We got back to sorting out what I actually needed and could afford and ended up buying a new Apollo 3-Blade 13 X 21. Its suppose to be here by dinner tomorrow.  Not sure what to expect as they claim these blades are a really big blade design. I just told the fella I wasn't looking to gain or lose anything over where it was before it broke. He said this would be great compared to the beat to crap one I had before.

Now for the kicker. Out of curiosity I went to researching these props. Seems Apollo has a prop selecting tool on their website. Well no matter what I put in for it to pick what prop I need I never get even close to a Apollo 13 X 21.    So now I emailed them directly asking for their very own opinion of what prop of theirs that they think I should be running. Should be entertaining to say the least.

[Deadeye]

Thanks for the Update.

My older Fiberglass hull boat was built more like an aluminum one. The prop on it was set at 4" below, but it really didn't have a PAD persay.

Could be that your boat is similar.

As long as it runs good and your happy I'd say go with it.

[Lipripper]

Dang Steve I hope you get this thing sorted out soon.

[SteveTX]

I couldn't wait on them to reply to my email any longer so I called them. Very nice people the guy spent quite a few minutes answering my questions and discussed a bunch of stuff but in the end he felt the Apollo prop I have coming today should put me right back where I was at or so close I would be pleased.

I did find out that they still make the Balistic brand prop as well. I was incorrectly informed that these were no longer made. Also that the new version of the Balistic has the replaceable hub like all the other props generally have these days.

Deadeye I'm not so sure mine has a "pad" like say other boats either. I just measured from the lowest flattest area at the stern of the boat. It did seem still slightly angled. But it was all I had to go by.

Me and you both Lip. I broke another rod the other day and think my fishing has become quite a expensive hobby. This rod was 100% my fault though so no one to complain to but myself.

[Lipripper]

I couldn't wait on them to reply to my email any longer so I called them. Very nice people the guy spent quite a few minutes answering my questions and discussed a bunch of stuff but in the end he felt the Apollo prop I have coming today should put me right back where I was at or so close I would be pleased.

I did find out that they still make the Balistic brand prop as well. I was incorrectly informed that these were no longer made. Also that the new version of the Balistic has the replaceable hub like all the other props generally have these days.

Deadeye I'm not so sure mine has a "pad" like say other boats either. I just measured from the lowest flattest area at the stern of the boat. It did seem still slightly angled. But it was all I had to go by.

Me and you both Lip. I broke another rod the other day and think my fishing has become quite a expensive hobby. This rod was 100% my fault though so no one to complain to but myself.

Glad you got that prop thing figured out and sorry you broke another rod. It's easy to do so don't be too hard on yourself.

[fishandkamp]

Steve I am not sure you read my earlier post. i did say the ballistic was now made by Michigan wheel and to call them for the replacement part number for your prop. The part number may have changed since it now uses a replaceable hub.  If the Apollo prop is not all that then try and get another Ballistic prop. That funky ear design allows it to act like a bigger eared prop at low speed and wind up quick for faster hole shots when you stomp it. I loved mine. It ran better than the original Trophy big hub prop, any size High 5 Merc prop and definitely better than any 3 blade Merc prop we tested. 

[SteveTX]

Steve I am not sure you read my earlier post. i did say the ballistic was now made by Michigan wheel and to call them for the replacement part number for your prop. The part number may have changed since it now uses a replaceable hub.  If the Apollo prop is not all that then try and get another Ballistic prop. That funky ear design allows it to act like a bigger eared prop at low speed and wind up quick for faster hole shots when you stomp it. I loved mine. It ran better than the original Trophy big hub prop, any size High 5 Merc prop and definitely better than any 3 blade Merc prop we tested.

I read it. Thank you for the info and ideas. Sorry I missed saying thanks for the reply. I think the Apollo will be fine. If things get to messed up the guy at Michigan wheel said that they still make the Ballistic and had my part # for it. 

I am planning to raise the motor some and see if that helps. It runs about 5mph slower now and I am still down 800RPM but I can live with it. Makes me want to raise the motor and see if it helps. I noticed it will start porpoising easier than my old prop if you trim it a tad to much. It seems quieter. I also feel like the handling is a little more precise now if that is possible. All in all I am content I can fish.

[fishandkamp]

That "easier to porpoising" has to do with all the cup that Ballistic had on the leading edge of the prop.  The loss of rpm is probably due to how those ears were cut off at the outer edge.  It was a uniquely designed prop.
Let us know how the rig benefits with the raising of the motor.
Another option you might consider is to have your local shop install a 4 inch jackplate like the ones from Vance Marine. They sell a 3 inch two piece but I do not trust those (several manufacturers make them) but the Vance 4 inch manual unit costs a little under $200 and would give you the benefit of running in clean water and quite a bit of adjustability.
That is the unit I am going to have installed on my Lowe bass boat. It can handle up to a 225 hp outboard. I doubt my little 75hp Merc is ever going to stress it LOL