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Author Topic: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?  (Read 1709 times)

The Rooster

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Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« on: May 15, 2019, 05:33:56 AM »

I can't get passed how it is advertised as abrasion resistent and low stretch when my experiences with Berkley Vanish and 100% showed me it would fray like crazy and stretch like a rubber band. The stretch of it was the only reason I kept using it for awhile for crankbaits and jerkbaits with treble hooks, along with its sinking properties helping to get those baits down deeper, which was also nice when fishing a weightless fluke. I also bought into the invisibility factor but then realized using clear blue fluorescent mono didn't seem to make a difference to the fish so I soon let go of the need to think my line wasn't visible to them. On that one I also reasoned that if the line was visible to the fish and was enough to ward off a bite then so were two swinging treble hooks. For added depth I'd just use deeper diving cranks or a tiny splitshot or stick on suspend strips.

When using fluoro for dragging a bait I would see my line from the hook up to about 4-5 inches start looking like it had been sanded. The line would peel away like dead skin so I was always having to cut and retie. When snagged (and apparently not frayed), I couldn't even pull hard enough to break the line because it was like pulling on a bungee cord, so any sensitivity I thought I gained while using bottom plastics and jigs came with the risk of 15 minutes of frustration when I was hung up 20' down and 70' away after a cast.

I found out that copoly, or multipoly as Berkley Sensations line claims to be, solved most of these problems, the fraying and stretchability, while remaining sensitive. It feels wirey compared to fluorocarbon but softens up with the use of KVD line conditioner. I use 14 and 17 pound Sensations on my casting rod for jigs, but I've not been convinced that it would be soft enough in a light size for use on a spinning rod with lighter baits and still give me good castability. That said, I recognize I have an extreme tendency to over analize things so I could be wrong, but I just haven't wanted to try the 8 pound and find out it doesn't cast like mono. Both mono and Sensations float, and sensitivity is a non factor in my use of it, so mono has worked to this point, but I miss the sinking ability fluoro provided for a weightless fluke and now I wonder if there would be a use for this line again in my arsenal. So my questions are, what do you use fluorocarbon for, and what kind?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 05:51:28 AM by The Rooster »
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Princeton_Man

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2019, 06:32:26 AM »

Not all fluorocarbon line is the same and quality fluoro isn't going to be as inexpensive as Berkley Vanish. I used to fish Vanish and when it first came out, it was awesome. Something changed about a year later. I experienced the same fraying and downright shaving as you mention. It also seemed to break easier also.


Before Vanish I fished Berkley 100% Fluorocarbon and saw marginally better performance than mono so, I wasn't going to move backwards. I eventually tried some of the top shelf stuff buying a spool of Seaguar Tatsu which quickly lead me to spooling Tatsu on all of my fluoro reels. Now I know it would make more sense to spend that kind of money for line if I were a full-time tournament angler instead of a wanna-be who only fishes a few tournaments a year but, that's me and once I've used the best tool for a job, I rarely go back to a tool with less performance.

I'm not saying go out and buy a spool of Tatsu but, I am say you should give some quality fluoro a try before labeling all fluoro as worthless. Try Seaguar Abrasx or Sunline Super FC Sniper. Experiment and you will find there are a lot of quality fluorocarbon lines out there.

I fished nothing but braid for a number of years and when I first went back to mono for some of the clear water around here, I had all kinds of problems. Even in the river which is where mono shines because of all the rock. My hooksets were miserable, I'd loose fish at the boat a lot. I tried 100% fluoro and it seemed to help so I just decided to stick with fluoro and braid. That has worked for me.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 06:44:28 AM by Princeton_Man »
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loomisguy

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2019, 07:12:46 AM »

I use flouro for everything except topwater. I've never used any kind of conditioner or spray and have never had any issues.
 I wouldn't use Vanish, but Invisx , Abrazx, Sniper or Shooter works fine.
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LgMouthGambler

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2019, 08:40:33 AM »

They all claim this or that. The truth is, Fluoro stretches just as much as mono, and the issue is, once it stretches, it doesnt go back. Mono will stretch, but then comes back. So the more you stretch the fluoro, the weaker it gets.
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loomisguy

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2019, 09:02:13 AM »

And it still works fine
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Bud Kennedy

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2019, 09:23:20 AM »

Ya know what guys....It is posts like this that confuse the dickens out of me.  I am not a flouro user and don't plan to be just because the reports from users is all over the place.  Seems to me that this line you are talking about is a solution to a non problem.  If it stretches like mono then why not use mono.  If you like the sensitivity of braid then why not use braid.  Why do some insist that a lot of their presentations will include a leader of some sort and in the case of this post a flouro leader. 

I just can't comprehend that this line will help you put fish in the boat.  For me using a leader of any kind is strictly taboo.  Why would you want to introduce another point of failure?  The only place I use braid and mono together is as backing on a reel.  I tie mono or braid direct to the lure and thats it.  I am wondering just what is the flouro advantage.  So far I have not heard from anyone in years a valid answer.

OK so I know a lot of pro anglers are using it.....So What,  All I want to know is how does it help.  Most folks just seem to discuss the problems they are having with it.    Go figure  !!   

Help me out here....Does anyone have any real data on this subject?
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loomisguy

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2019, 09:44:43 AM »

In my hands flouro is a more sensitive line than mono or copoly. It's also thinner, 12lb Invisx is .011 vs 12lb. big game at .014.
 Crankbaits run a bit deeper with it because it's a sinking line and thinner . As to stretch I agree Flouro still has it but I can still set a jig as deep as I care to fish with it.. Heck, if I get one hung up I can move the boat with 12lb. trying to break it off and I go on fishing it.
There will always be horror stories about it but I think the majority of it goes to not wetting the knot and pulling it tight slowly or it will burn. If your not good with a baitcaster I would stay away from it, If it kinks from a backlash it will get a weak spot.
 For me, the increased sensitivity and depth is worth it..
 
 
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Lee Smith

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2019, 10:09:35 AM »

I use that braidedcarbon line on everything  ;D  lo

cranks, rattles, spinners, worms, floaters, everything... even in clear water, never had an issue, never not caught as well as the other folks in the boat
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LgMouthGambler

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2019, 10:16:27 AM »

In my hands flouro is a more sensitive line than mono or copoly. It's also thinner, 12lb Invisx is .011 vs 12lb. big game at .014.
 Crankbaits run a bit deeper with it because it's a sinking line and thinner . As to stretch I agree Flouro still has it but I can still set a jig as deep as I care to fish with it.. Heck, if I get one hung up I can move the boat with 12lb. trying to break it off and I go on fishing it.
There will always be horror stories about it but I think the majority of it goes to not wetting the knot and pulling it tight slowly or it will burn. If your not good with a baitcaster I would stay away from it, If it kinks from a backlash it will get a weak spot.
 For me, the increased sensitivity and depth is worth it..

Be careful using diameter of lines with the lb ratings, because they are all not accurate. For instance you posted the Big Game. Big Game is a fat line. 0.014 at 12lbs is fat for a mono. Examples of Seaguar Senshi mono is 20lb at 0.013 diameter, where as most 12lb lines will vary at 0.010-0.015. So you cant say its definitely thinner when comparing to mono, and the same goes with fluoro. Not all are a "standard" diameter.
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LgMouthGambler

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2019, 10:17:33 AM »

I use that braidedcarbon line on everything  ;D  lo

.... never not caught as well as the other folks in the boat

Sure, sure you havent.  lo
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Lee Smith

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2019, 10:28:36 AM »

Sure, sure you havent.  lo

other than that one time, but, it  don't count  ~roflmao
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loomisguy

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2019, 10:44:02 AM »

What's a 12lb mono thinner than .011 ? In any case it's still going to float.
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Lee Smith

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2019, 10:50:57 AM »

Honestly, I've just never understood the need for fluorocarbon line? I understand needing the stretch in mono for certain applications but I don't get the other side?  Maybe it's just me..
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LgMouthGambler

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2019, 10:53:56 AM »

Honestly, I've just never understood the need for fluorocarbon line? I understand needing the stretch in mono for certain applications but I don't get the other side?  Maybe it's just me..

Nope, not just you.
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fishballer06

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2019, 10:59:47 AM »

If you're basing your opinion on fluorocarbon off of Berkley Vanish, you're not giving FC a fair chance. I think they named that stuff "Vanish" because that's what it makes your baits do.

I switched to fluorocarbon for all of my presentations other than topwater (braid) and dropshotting (braid w/ FC leader) 3 years ago. In that time, I can remember 3-4 times that I've broken off, all of which were on the initial bite from a pike. The brands of fluorocarbon that I use are Sunline Sniper, P-Line Tactical, and Seaguar Tatsu.

To each their own. We live in a time where technology is making the best stuff that we've ever had in fishing. So whether you like fluoro, mono, braid, or copoly lines, use what you want to use and whatever works best for your applications. I have found that fluoro is more sensitive, sinks, stretches less than mono, is more abrasion resistant as well.
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SteveTX

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2019, 11:07:02 AM »

Im guilty of purchasing a couple filler spools of fluorocarbon. Was all the advertising a hoax? Not sure if all those actors who claimed all the “no stretch” ever used any.
I agree not all fluro mono or braid is the same. That said the fluro I tried wasn’t as stretchy as the mono I use. But still not a game changer as I've set hooks with mono for decades. With the negatives associated with fluro Im not seeing a big win paying more for more headaches. 

I put fluro in the same bucket as the EWG hooks. They might have a ever so slight use in very few circumstances. So few that with the negatives they bring to the table I don't see me making them a part of my regular routine fishing. More power to those who feel they need it.
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apenland01

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2019, 11:07:58 AM »

Sinking is the biggest reason for me.  I don't really care about the other aspects, but that line sink is hugely important for certain things.  Specifically, I fish the fluke with fluoro exclusively because if I use mono, the fluke just surfaces and kills the action.  With fluoro, it stays just under the surface and has crazy action.

I am experimenting with different fluoros now to find the best one on my spinning reels.  I had been using 8lb K9 without a problem, but was losing bigger fish to line break.  I spooled up some 12lb K9 and it despooled after a few casts.  The same thing happened with my buddy's 12lb Seaguar Invisx he gave me to put on.  I'm learning that anything over 8lb fluoro on a spinning reel takes some work to get the line to behave.

I've got these lines spooled up right now on 4 reels and I'm going to test them out this weekend during a tournament, so I'll have some feedback on them next week.

1.  McCoy 100% fluoro 10lb and 12lb
2.  Sunline FC Sniper 12lb
3.  P-Line Tactical 10lb

After I spooled these up, I took them to the park and tied on a swivel and hooked it to a chain link fence.  walked it out, stretched it and reeled it back up.  Then walked it back out, stretched it, left the rod out there, cut the line at the swivel and reeled in the line with slight tension between my fingers.  So far, none of the spools have despooled the line.  I made about 50 casts with each line and didn't have any issues with any of them.  The McCoy's seemed to be the most well behaved coming off the reel though.

I'll know what I like best after this weekend for sure.....
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Wizard

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2019, 11:55:15 AM »

I use mono and braid in warm weather and AN40 co-polymer in cold weather. The AN40 came out about 40 years ago and in my opinion, is still the finest cold weather line. As a deep water angler, it makes since to use braid. Better feel and hookset make it superior to other types of line.
I tried various fluorocarbon lines for a year. Not bad lines but I didn't need them for my style of fishing.

Wizard
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The Rooster

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2019, 09:10:47 PM »

Sinking is the biggest reason for me.  I don't really care about the other aspects, but that line sink is hugely important for certain things.  Specifically, I fish the fluke with fluoro exclusively because if I use mono, the fluke just surfaces and kills the action.  With fluoro, it stays just under the surface and has crazy action.

I am experimenting with different fluoros now to find the best one on my spinning reels.  I had been using 8lb K9 without a problem, but was losing bigger fish to line break.  I spooled up some 12lb K9 and it despooled after a few casts.  The same thing happened with my buddy's 12lb Seaguar Invisx he gave me to put on.  I'm learning that anything over 8lb fluoro on a spinning reel takes some work to get the line to behave.

I've got these lines spooled up right now on 4 reels and I'm going to test them out this weekend during a tournament, so I'll have some feedback on them next week.

1.  McCoy 100% fluoro 10lb and 12lb
2.  Sunline FC Sniper 12lb
3.  P-Line Tactical 10lb

After I spooled these up, I took them to the park and tied on a swivel and hooked it to a chain link fence.  walked it out, stretched it and reeled it back up.  Then walked it back out, stretched it, left the rod out there, cut the line at the swivel and reeled in the line with slight tension between my fingers.  So far, none of the spools have despooled the line.  I made about 50 casts with each line and didn't have any issues with any of them.  The McCoy's seemed to be the most well behaved coming off the reel though.

I'll know what I like best after this weekend for sure.....

You mean you wound the line back onto the reel as it dragged through the grass? I used to practice cast in the yard doing this but I stopped when I realized the rough edges of the grass blades were fraying and nicking my line. Now if I do it at all I'm careful to hold the rod tip high while reeling in and then I always cut off the last couple of feet near the bait and retie.
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apenland01

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2019, 09:21:05 PM »

Yes, I wound the line back onto the reel while the line was laying in the dirt/grass with nothing tied to it.  Not much grass around here.  It allowed it to roll and untwist, so it went onto the spool without the usual twist I get.  After I got the reels done, I took them out and made a bunch of casts at the urban lake and they all behaved much better than I expected, given my recent experience with fluoros on spinning reels....
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boatinpete

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2019, 10:17:53 PM »

To me flouro is a huge marketing scam and the pros are rolling with it as they are sponsored by these companies, you mean we never caught fish on mono? Or they never did? I bet you flouro is a lot more profit then mono is. A big lie as it stretches at least as much, is very springy and stupid expensive.Do you guys really catch more fish then you did on mono?
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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2019, 12:06:56 AM »

There was a time when Fluorocarbon was the only game in town when it came for abrasion resistance, and I used it as a leader for quite a few applications, even in toothy situations, both fresh and saltwater wise.

Now a days there are line formulations in both mono and copoly which can actually hold up to what I put it through at a lower cost than the Fluorocarbon equivalent leader.

I hardly used more than 30 yards as a top shot when I used Floro because of it's unruliness, and the fact that I never used any less than 20lb which is pretty stiff stuff.

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FISH520

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2019, 03:28:44 AM »

I like good ol weed wacker string.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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loomisguy

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2019, 05:00:00 AM »

To me flouro is a huge marketing scam and the pros are rolling with it as they are sponsored by these companies, you mean we never caught fish on mono? Or they never did? I bet you flouro is a lot more profit then mono is. A big lie as it stretches at least as much, is very springy and stupid expensive.Do you guys really catch more fish then you did on mono?
yes. Trust me, If your going to base your fishing equipment purchases on how much profit margin there is in a product don't buy a rod , baits, a boat or a 60k truck to pull it with.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 05:25:39 AM by loomisguy »
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Oldfart9999

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Re: Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2019, 07:09:07 AM »

Flouro doesn't stretch as much on the initial hookset but will stretch more after that and Matt was correct when he stated that it doesn't rebound like mono. It does sin k which can get you an extra foot or so with crankbait and can help keep a quickly worked soft plastic just under the surface. As far as leaders go the only place I use it on dropshot to help the bait stay below the swivel or knot. I'm not sure about abrasion resistance. For most uses I've switched to braid.
Rodney
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