Why do I see fluorocarbon as useless?

merc1997 · May 16, 2019, 09:04:49 AM

i grew up using braid (dacron). it came in black and camo. never had any issues with catching fish with it in the clear waters of table rock, and back then, it was really clear compared to now. then along came mono and could not tell that it improved fish catching at all, but had to change rods to have more backbone to get the hook buried. finally tried one of the new braids and have not gone back to mono or flouro. i have never found a need for using a leader, even in the sharp rocks of table rock. you do have to retie braid, but not nearly as often as with mono or flouro. you have to visually inspect braid for fraying.

but, the bottom line, so to speak, is to use what You think works best for you. same can be said for rods and reels.

bo

D.W. Verts · May 16, 2019, 11:24:48 AM

Sometimes there's an advantage to being an older angler and unwilling to change. All of these hassles are no hassle at all.

Wizard · May 16, 2019, 04:44:08 PM

bo, you're getting old and forgetful. That wasn't braid we grew up using, it was Dacron.

SteveTX · May 16, 2019, 09:01:28 PM

Quote from: Wizard on May 16, 2019, 04:44:08 PM
bo, you're getting old and forgetful. That wasn't braid we grew up using, it was Dacron.

It was more like trot line.

I remember seeing some on a reel many moons ago. I don't know how anyone could have liked it. Maybe as a Flipping setup only where there was minimal reeling if any at all.

merc1997 · May 17, 2019, 04:01:14 AM

Quote from: Wizard on May 16, 2019, 04:44:08 PM
bo, you're getting old and forgetful. That wasn't braid we grew up using, it was Dacron.

you need some glasses

. i said braid (dacron). and, it was braided dacron. are you not only getting old, need glasses, and forgetful

. got you on that one.

bo

The Rooster · May 17, 2019, 05:39:50 AM

I loved the sensitivity of braid but I had two minor hangups with it, well three really, and all of them can be traced to just my personal preferences. Now that I'm about to put them into print they seem more like whiny complaining than actual problems, but none the less, here goes.

First one, it's noisy on the cast and that just put me off thinking something was wrong with my $180 reel at the time. Mild panic set in for a few minutes until I realized what was really going on. Then I started worrying about sawing the rod's line guides up with it. None of those concerns proved valid though.

Second one, it literally made my thumb sore from use whereas mono, copoly, or fluoro just don't do that. That one was a legit complaint for me anyway cause now it's interfering with my ability to continue fishing.

Third one, a snag with any distance to the cast resulted in just cutting off a lot of the line, which was not a pleasant choice to make. I was bank bound at the time and underestimated a Curado E7 casting ability and sent a spinnerbait completely across the water to the opposite shore where it found a solid hold and could not be freed. That bank was inaccessible unless I wanted to swim, so out came the scissors cause I wasn't gonna just pull hard enough to straighten a thick hook out and risk rod breakage or reel damage. Before cutting I did try wrapping the line around a solid stick I had found and just pulling it free. The line just slipped though. Maybe if I had wrapped it a few more times it might not have.

After these experiences I just pulled the braid off and went to using the Berkley Sensation line I use now.

SteveTX · May 17, 2019, 08:04:57 AM

Hey Rooster what braid was it? These issues you mentioned "noisy, worrying about sawing the rod's line guides, and made my thumb sore" are all typical of low carrier and lesser quality braid. Pro Cat brand comes to mind as it is rough.

Power Pro and Sufix both make quality 8 carrier smooth braid that do still make a slight noise although to me its non existent. This smooth braid also should not make you think about something being damaged. And is no different than mono, copoly, or fluoro on my thumb.

All that said its like you mentioned tough as shit. So if you are fishing where you cant unhang a snagged hook a quality braid will just make it worse.

Just thought if your in a boat now to me braid is well worth it. I didn't know if you knew some braid is a lot smoother than others.

The Rooster · May 18, 2019, 05:11:30 AM

This might surprise you, but I have only ever tried braid once and it was 65 pound Power Pro. The experiences above were with it. My concerns about line guide damage were from my own lack of experience with braid combined with reading online horror stories. They proved unfounded. I was using a Shimano Compre rod with hardloy guides and Power Pro braid (since it was recommended specifically) and line guide damage proved not to be an issue. I just over analized that point in the beginning. But noise and sore thumb were issues that I did actually experience. The noise might have been less than I'd see with cheaper products but I had no direct comparison, this being the only braid I ever tried. All I knew was mono and fluorocarbon were quieter on the cast. Once I got passed the fear of the noise being damage happening then I was more ok with it. The only real downside was sore thumb, and this made me start finding less use for my favorite rod. That was unacceptable so it wasn't long before I decided the braid had to go so I could use the rod more often.

Basically it's like I said. Not any real concerns, just some whiny wuss complaints. LOL! If I were to try braid again, which I'm considering due to all the pads at a lake I recently began fishing, it would be Power Pro 65 because I know how stupid strong that stuff is.

Ya know, it occurs to me that at the time I heard the noise for the first time I was using the braid on a Curado 200e7 reel and throwing a 3/8 spinnerbait. I was also impressed with the extreme cast distance that reel had as well as the sheer speed that the bait left the rod tip. Is it possible that this combination created the noise as the line sailed through the guides at "sonic speeds"? I never thought about that at all. I just noticed that the harder I whipped the rod to get distance the louder the sound was. I bet that was it. Boy, I miss that reel. I sold it and decided to go back to lower priced reels just so I could get more of them when needed and have an easier time doing so. I'm getting off track here, but originally I was building a technique specific arsenal and I had started out with 5 BPS Extreme reels. They were ok, but developed slight gear roughness in a couple of them, one with almost no use and still had it. I switched brands and got a Citica 200e and was hugely impressed. Then got a Curado 200e7 and was totally blown away. But those were too expensive for me to acquire as many as I wanted and slowed my purchasing speed significantly. Then Shimano moved to the G platform which everyone seemingly hated, and E reels disappeared, so I just gave up. I'm one who wants all my reels to feel the same in hand so mix and match branding wasn't an option. I sold the Shimano's and bought Abu Garcia Orra2 reels as replacements, which are surperior to the BPS reels but not even a shadow of the Shimanos. They're actually very comfortable in hand, look nice and work fine, but they're boring as heck! The new Shimano SLX gives me hope (and any I buy would absolutely have to be upgraded to the same level as Large Mouth Gambler's reel), but honestly, so does the newest BPS Pro Qualifier, as it seems to be much improved and modernized over the last one, and can be gotten far cheaper when on sale. My financial situation is much improved from the past but still not at $180-200 per reel levels.

FlatsNBay · May 18, 2019, 07:26:00 AM

Go to Tackle Tour and check out the two articles that they did on the flurocarbon showdown. It is eye opening to see how much stretch all the f/c lines have compared to to their comparison, Trilene XL mono.

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbontest.html

With all that said, there are some crappy f/c lines out there that really give f/c lines a bad reputation. I've settled on Seaguar Red Label as the f/c line for me. It has just enough stretch for cranking, worm and jig fishing in clear water and finesse fishing with lighter line. I really like how soft and subtle it is and I don't need or use any after market line conditioners. Best of all, it's cheap! I've tried plenty of other crappy lines and also more expensive lines that were really good. For me, I really like it.

Oldfart9999 · May 19, 2019, 03:07:27 PM

Look at all the grass and pads braid will cut through while mono and flouro break off.
Rodney

Bud Kennedy · May 19, 2019, 03:26:34 PM

This has been informative but I still have not heard a verifiable reason to use flouro. If I am reading the feedback correctly, it seems to be some form of personal preference but with no operational reasons. Certainly there must be some "real" reasons to use it unless it is just another product looking for a problem to solve.

FISH520 · May 19, 2019, 03:35:39 PM

Does it really matter. It all works in trees

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coldfront · May 19, 2019, 03:45:54 PM

personal preference is the answer.

I've gravitated to braid on my heavy rods (frogs, c-rigs, punch), flouro on my moving baits (spinner, squarebills, t-rigs, plastics, swimbaits) and mono for topwater (walking, popping, buzzbaits - but not frogs/toads)

and mono for night fishing cause it shows up great with black light (clear blue fluorescent)

braid breaks off, gets cut on all our mussel beds/rocks - YOU CAN'T TIE IT EXPECT TO FISH IT ALL DAY. Flouro holds up best of all. that said, if a guy pays attention, you'll see fraying, feel knicks on any/all lines and re-tying solves that 'right then'.

doesn't matter what line you throw, you must pay attention to it (knicks, frays, etc) and re-tie as needed.

j102 · May 19, 2019, 05:09:14 PM

I use braid in all my reels, straight to the hook or lure for Freshwater fishing.
However, I use Sunline Super FC Sniper Fluorocarbon line as a leader for Saltwater fishing.

FlatsNBay · May 19, 2019, 08:06:35 PM

Quote from: Bud Kennedy on May 19, 2019, 03:26:34 PM
This has been informative but I still have not heard a verifiable reason to use flouro. If I am reading the feedback correctly, it seems to be some form of personal preference but with no operational reasons. Certainly there must be some "real" reasons to use it unless it is just another product looking for a problem to solve.

It sinks therefore gives you a little more depth when needed. Is clear and will give me a few more bites than braid in crystal clear water. Has just the right amount of stretch for me for certain baits, not too much or too little.

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fishballer06 · May 20, 2019, 07:53:21 AM

Quote from: FlatsNBay on May 18, 2019, 07:26:00 AM
Go to Tackle Tour and check out the two articles that they did on the flurocarbon showdown. It is eye opening to see how much stretch all the f/c lines have compared to to their comparison, Trilene XL mono.

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbontest.html

With all that said, there are some crappy f/c lines out there that really give f/c lines a bad reputation. I've settled on Seaguar Red Label as the f/c line for me. It has just enough stretch for cranking, worm and jig fishing in clear water and finesse fishing with lighter line. I really like how soft and subtle it is and I don't need or use any after market line conditioners. Best of all, it's cheap! I've tried plenty of other crappy lines and also more expensive lines that were really good. For me, I really like it.

I'd be curious to see that test redone today. 12 years is a long time when it comes to fishing technology.

loomisguy · May 20, 2019, 03:13:50 PM

Quote from: Bud Kennedy on May 19, 2019, 03:26:34 PM
This has been informative but I still have not heard a verifiable reason to use flouro. If I am reading the feedback correctly, it seems to be some form of personal preference but with no operational reasons. Certainly there must be some "real" reasons to use it unless it is just another product looking for a problem to solve.

Then you shouldn't use it. If the increased sensitivity or depth doesn't concern you .

merc1997 · May 20, 2019, 09:38:55 PM

Quote from: loomisguy on May 20, 2019, 03:13:50 PM
Then you shouldn't use it. If the increased sensitivity or depth doesn't concern you .

i will be the odd man out here, but i have used many brands of flouro, and i never could tell that it was a bit more sensitive than mono. and i never could tell it was more abrasion resistant.'

bo

Ddyyak · May 20, 2019, 10:17:23 PM

Salt strong on you tube did an interesting test on flouro vs mono abrasive resistance. I don't know how to add the link but attached a screenshot.

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hawgwash · May 21, 2019, 05:03:15 AM

I tried Seaguar InvisX, but it had horrible line twist/memory and it broke three times (loosing three lures). Yesterday I bought Sunline Fluorocarbon to put on a my new rig (Diawa Tatula SV TW 6:3 on a Diawa Aird X 7' MHF). Last night I went out to test this line not expecting to catch anything, just tossing it around to see how the line behaved.

Well, I had a monster pike grab my lure and it was quite the adventure getting him in. The line held up really well which is more than I can say for the other fluorocarbon I had used. Like one of the other users said, I don't like using leaders on my line either - just prefer to tie straight to. But I did want to use fluorocarbon and not wanting some leader situation I just spooled up with straight fluoro. Seems the Sunline stuff is pretty good - held up to that mondo pike

loomisguy · May 23, 2019, 06:32:35 AM

Strange , Invisx is some the best handling line going , heck it spools close to mono .
Sounds like you had it on a spinning reel. Any chance you overfilled it .?

coldfront · May 23, 2019, 10:44:08 PM

Quote from: merc1997 on May 20, 2019, 09:38:55 PM
i will be the odd man out here, but i have used many brands of flouro, and i never could tell that it was a bit more sensitive than mono. and i never could tell it was more abrasion resistant.'

bo

bo, I do find when fishing mussel beds (dragging a football jig around) that flouro holds up better than mono AND braid.

I routinely pitch plastics into brush on 10 0r 12# mono. but diligently check for abrasion after extracting fish.

the result of one such foolish moment did go 8 pounds.

rb-nc · May 25, 2019, 05:57:10 AM

I'll try this. I was lucky in that the company I started my job at was Dupont, the original maker of the greatest fishing line ever made, Stren. Nylon fishing line. I got to go by and see it made all the time. If it was still made like it was then I would still use it, but its not. Mono and fluro both stretch but mono acts more like a rubber band. It stretches retracts stretches retracts and so on. And it gets worse when you use it longer at one time because it absorbs water.Also when you make a long cast and have a bottom bait the line will have a huge bow in it. Therefore when you set the hook you have to take all that bow out of the line before you even move the hook.
Fluro is a more dense line, harder. It repels water much more than mono. It does have stretch, but it it doesn't keep rebounding like mono. When I spool fluro up I tie on a large ball bearing swivel. I have a small eye hook in a fence post I hook the snap onto. I then walk back 50 yards or so and put a salt water beach rod holder in the ground. I reel down tight and do a slow pull, enough to get a good bow in the rod. I then place the rod in the rod holder while the line is still tight. I then take a rag and spray it with line conditioner and press it between my finger and and walk to the other end of the line where the snap is. This takes most of the stretch out and treats the line. When you get near the end the ball bearing swivel will be spinning like crazy. Now I go back to the rod and reel it up with tension. I also do this on all my lines. Now fluro will "jump" off of a spinning rod. Its best to use a reel with a bigger spool.
Fluro is not an over hyped gimmick it is awesome stuff.
That said I have went to braid with a leader on all of my rigs and I do not plan on going back

Bud Kennedy · May 25, 2019, 08:44:28 AM

RB good post. Now, I want to explore it a bit further. You say you are committed to using Flouro leaders on all of your presentation styles. My question is why do you feel it makes a difference vs just using straight braid. As a follow up question what length leader to you typically use and what knot are you using to get through the guides on your rods. I take it you are not using micro guides.

rb-nc · May 25, 2019, 09:03:08 AM

Quote from: Bud Kennedy on May 25, 2019, 08:44:28 AM
RB good post. Now, I want to explore it a bit further. You say you are committed to using Flouro leaders on all of your presentation styles. My question is why do you feel it makes a difference vs just using straight braid. As a follow up question what length leader to you typically use and what knot are you using to get through the guides on your rods. I take it you are not using micro guides.

Bud the main reason for the leader, Lake Norman. Its clear and I think it just helps a little. Plus I feel like the leader allows baits like crankbaits and topwaters to move a little better. Also braid is very limp and I have found it fouls in hooks a good bit. The leader helps. Robert has changed to the same setup in TN even when fishing Dale Hollow. I don't use true micro guides, some of my rids have smaller guides but are not true micro. On spinning rod I run about a 6 foot leader on casting about 18 inches. I use the Alberto knot. On bottom contact baits, Flukes, and Senkos I use high vis orange braid on the others its green. I have been using the new Sunline Xplasma braid and with the PION coating it is quieter and you can throw it a mile. I also use mono as a leader some too