SiC vs Aluminum oxide inserts

hydrillagorillahunter · July 30, 2020, 11:16:25 PM

So I've been running quantum tour kvd rods for a while now. They have low profile ALPS guides with aluminum oxide inserts. I recently picked up a Shimano Adrena rod which has Fuji guides with SiC inserts. What I've noticed is how much smoother fluoro runs through the tour kvd rods vs the adrena. I probably lost about 3yds in casting distance as well with the Adrena. Also, the sensitivity when it comes to line abrasions is MUCH much better on the tour kvd; you really can't feel them on the Adrena. So, long story short is this recent Adrena purchase has stung quite a bit considering I picked my tour kvd rods up brand new for $50 each. The Adrena?...$350+. I'd never given inserts a look; not a rod builder - I just buy them and fish them...so consideration was never given to inserts when buying. It's certainly something to think about now.

Anyone else experience aluminum oxide inserts running fluoro much smoother and casting further than silicon carbide?

zippyduck · July 31, 2020, 12:11:39 AM

I use Dobyns rod and they have Fuji Alconite guides and are excellent. But I also have a Dobyns Xtasy and a Custom rod with Fuji Torzite guides and they are the cats meow. Best guides made but you pay for them. Both rods are the longest casting rod I own.

FD · July 31, 2020, 03:37:26 AM

Expensive rods look cooler but they dont necessarily perform better.

I've built rods that customers have spec'd that had $300-$400 worth of components in them. And the don't perform any better than my stock rods that have $100...

Like most things in Life, it is about balance of the whole. Not just one component.

CPF Lures Pro Staff

hydrillagorillahunter · July 31, 2020, 06:25:04 AM

Quote from: FD on July 31, 2020, 03:37:26 AM
Expensive rods look cooler but they dont necessarily perform better.

I've built rods that customers have spec'd that had $300-$400 worth of components in them. And the don't perform any better than my stock rods that have $100...

Like most things in Life, it is about balance of the whole. Not just one component.

CPF Lures Pro Staff

This ^ for sure! I keep comparing the two and I'm stunned still. These Adrena rods have a lot of hype behind them too. I hadn't mentioned but the quantum tour kvd rod and adrena rod I'm comparing are essentially the same spec 6'10"/6'11"...both medium heavy power...fast action....9+1s.

I mean how often do you see someone taking a reel off of a $350 rod to put it back on their $50(msrp just over $100) rod due to the $50 performing better? The build quality on the adrena is very nice, it's a quality build, but the quantum tour does everything it does and casts smoother and further. Smooth casting along with distance are important to me and could care less about a nicer looking rod.

I'll keep the adrena because it is a quality rod and has great action, but damn I was expecting much more I guess.

fishballer06 · July 31, 2020, 08:30:16 AM

I can't comment on the KVD Tour rods, but I do own an Adrena that I bought to replace my St. Croix LTB which uses Alconite guides. The Adrena gives me a little better distance and its significantly more sensitive as well.

Based on your last post, are you saying that your KVD Tour rod is more sensitive than the Adrena as well?

hydrillagorillahunter · July 31, 2020, 03:41:00 PM

Quote from: fishballer06 on July 31, 2020, 08:30:16 AM
I can't comment on the KVD Tour rods, but I do own an Adrena that I bought to replace my St. Croix LTB which uses Alconite guides. The Adrena gives me a little better distance and its significantly more sensitive as well.

Based on your last post, are you saying that your KVD Tour rod is more sensitive than the Adrena as well?

they're both sensitive, but would say the adrena is based on the few fish i've caught...would need more time fishing it and hauling in more fish. the sensitivity between the two is distinct though in feel if that makes sense. the adrena has a softer feel to it.

in receiving my adrena i literally took the reel i had on the tour kvd rod and put it on the adrena, so it's not a matter of different line or reel, etc... the first thing i noticed immediately and it was pronounced was line flows better, slicker, less friction(feel wise)...through the tour kvd rod. also, as mentioned, slight line abrasions are better felt on the tour kvd rod. you would think this would translate to better sensitivity on the water, but it doesn't considering rod construction ie reel seat, handle, materials used factor in...as expected.

the tour kvd edges it out casting distance wise as well and in some cases without question. another thing i noticed is braid flows so well through the tour kvd rod that you can barely hear it or feel it and at times with 20lb braid it feels as if you can't even feel the line moving through the guides. on the adrena...you can hear the braid more so on retrieve and feel it.

don't get me wrong the adrena is nice. the handle is very comfortable. it's a well built rod. i guess i got caught up in the notion the tour kvd rods were/are entry level rods and was expecting this major leap with regard to how smoothly line moves through the guides along with casting distance. it turns out tour kvd rods are much MUCH better in comparing to a mid to high tier rod.

loomisguy · August 01, 2020, 05:31:30 AM

I don't think casting distance is the benchmark to use in judging rod quality. The Shimano may have a different action or not as much tip ect. I would doubt the guides are slowing down the line.
Sensitivity should be where you feel the difference dragging baits ect. but if your throwing moving baits with it then your not going to feel much difference between the 2.
In any case it's a great rod.

hydrillagorillahunter · August 02, 2020, 08:45:26 PM

Quote from: loomisguy on August 01, 2020, 05:31:30 AM
I don't think casting distance is the benchmark to use in judging rod quality. The Shimano may have a different action or not as much tip ect. I would doubt the guides are slowing down the line.
Sensitivity should be where you feel the difference dragging baits ect. but if your throwing moving baits with it then your not going to feel much difference between the 2.
In any case it's a great rod.

it's not. the actions are very close; both fast action...parabolic curve is very close between the two if not identical. in giving it more thought, i agree it likely has nothing to do with insert substrates...silicon carbide vs zirconium. what it does have to do with is guide size. the guides on the tour kvd rod are micro guides. the adrena standard size. i am casting further with the tour kvd rod. the tour kvd rod is heavier in the tip as well with regard to balance. line feels as if it flows smoother through the tour kvd rod, certainly not imaginary...i immediately noticed it. threw on the same reel, using the same lure...on the same fishery to the same spots and noticed the distinctions between the two immediately.

you're right it is a great rod; at $350+ i'll force it into my rotation. but if you hand someone a $350 rod and tell them it doesn't cast as far or feel as smooth as their $50 rod, i'm not so sure the notion of rod quality is front and center at that point, but who knows. again, the adrena is a great rod, but my $50 tour kvd is right there with it and therein lies the shock.

not to mention the handle design is short-sighted on the adrena. the grip is sparse and on a hot and humid day like today with no wind i could barely keep grip. sadly, i guess shimano usa feels we can't afford their glorious and ultima lines, with the adrena being the bottom tier overseas within their poison line. the glorious and ultima have the proper handle setups...cork below the reel seat with extended grip - see link.

https://sdfish.com/forums/attachments/bg_2-1-jpg.11601/