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Author Topic: Ultralight baitcasting  (Read 16733 times)

Dug

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Ultralight baitcasting
« on: December 15, 2008, 09:19:37 AM »

So I am stuck in Central Illinois for the winter.  Today's temp when I left the house was 5 degrees!!!  My Garage door was frozen shut.  So instead of thinking about fishing, I am thinking about fishing gear.  The bait monkey is tapping my shoulder saying what about this one or that one. 

  What I would really like to do is be able to cast some very light lures with my baitcaster and I know it will be a challenge but I intend to meet that challenge and be ready for the spring bite.    I have heard that the Daiwa pixy is a great reel for light lures but it looks to be over 200 bucks used. Any other recommendations?

Also I am thinking a Light or Medium light parabolic rod is the right one for this set up, almost noodle rod like.  I don't imagine setting the hook will be easy though.

Dug
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coldfront

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2008, 10:14:05 AM »

dug,

when I first started out baitcasting (from shore) I had a Shimano Curado 200 spooled with 10# mono and a 6-6 Shimano Compre (medium action...but back then it was a much more parabolic action and softer tip)...

I could rig a 4 inch berkely finesse worm (straight tail) on a 1/0 EWG hook and cast that about 20 yards of so...yep, that's right:  no weight other than the little worm/hook...on a baitcaster...

think the shimano reels will handle what you want just fine...your biggest challenge might be finding a rod with a soft enough action to load properly to cast the stuff you want.

too, I wouldn't have a problem runnng down to 6# on my Shimano baitcasters...in terms of how they'd handle (I've done it)...
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Dug

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2008, 10:38:12 AM »

Thanks coldfront, that was one of my options, to use my supertuned Curado, then I remember it went into the mississippi 2 years ago. I have a SF version still, so I will either try that or  I might have to have a go at supertuning one myself.  And then find the right rod.  I have considered getting a long salmon rod just for a good load up on the cast, but a 9 footer might be a little much.

Dug
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coldfront

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2008, 11:23:05 AM »

Dug, I just used the Curado as it 'came out of the box'...no super tuning at all...

And, I think you might find that a shorter rod might work pretty good on those lighter baits...possibly a 6 footer... ;)
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Skeet

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2008, 12:18:27 PM »

You could check out the Daiwa Sol.  It is the american version of the Pixy.  Here is a review of the Sol.  http://www.tackletour.com/reviewdaiwasol.html

The Pixy and Presso are both Daiwa Japan models.  This means that parts and or service is tougher to find.  I would give the slight edge to the Pixy since it has a heavier drag.  If I knew I was going to stay in the 2-4 lb test area, the Presso would work too.

The Pixy would be my first choice mainly due to the lighter weight compared to the Sol. 

If you can live with the extra 1.5 ozs. then the Sol is a really nice choice.

Part of your decision really is dependent on what you consider ultra-lite.  1/20 - 1/30 of an ounce is where the Pixy and Presso shine.  1/16 oz or heavier, all three reels will easily handle.  The tiny 1-minus is an example that all three reels would be able to toss.

Lastly, I would not consider an 8' rod for this application.  There are plenty of 5'6" to 6'6" rods that can handle whichever reel you pick.  An 8' rod would kill your feel.
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Dug

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2008, 12:22:41 PM »

Thanks for the inputs.  I may already have what I need to try this out, and will play around a little with my gear when the temps get out the below zero range.

Dug
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WRBass

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2008, 01:04:52 PM »

You would be better off with a Curado 100 E series, the smaller spool handles 5 lb fluoro or mono exceptionally well. The key to casting light lures with a bait caster is the rod; use a longer 7' medium mod/fast designed for casting pointer type jerk baits. Loomis PR845C or lamiglas XPC703 are a good examples. I use this rod and reel combo to cast 1/8 oz jigs, small jerk baits, drop shot and spoon with this rod.
WRB
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Dug

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2008, 01:15:04 PM »

Thanks WRBass, that's why I was thinking of going with an even longer rod.  I am surprised though that you recommend a fast tip, I would have thought slow/medium would get a better load on the lure. 

Dug
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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2008, 01:51:05 PM »

If you are using supertuned reels the rod is all you will need to change.
WRB made some good recomendations. The reason you would use a fast tipped rod is because with the light weight of the bait the tip needs to be very limber to load and launch the bait.  I use an old berkley rod I bought in the early 90's It is a 7ft med, to skip flukes and el grande minnows around dock's.

Dug

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2008, 02:08:32 PM »

Now see this confuses me.  I understand that a fast tip bends more toward the tip of the rod, but over all, is a stiff rod as compared to a medium or slow action rod, and what I have always believed is that a slow rod is better for casting.  In which case, because I am trying to cast almost no weight, wouldn't I want a slower action rod?

Dug
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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2008, 02:17:27 PM »

The tip action is how fast the tip responds to changes in force.  Basicly it is more limber. Try to cast weightles plastics on a moderate action rod and you get almost zero help from the rod.  Basically with a fast action tip you are getting a whip effect which greatly increases your rod tip speed and help lanch the bait farther with less effort from you.  I know some can explain this better than I can bu I hope I helped a little.

Dug

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2008, 02:22:58 PM »

Okay that makes sense.  So a medium light rod with a fast action would allow me to throw the light weight and get the cast I want, whereas a Heavy rod with a fast action probably wouldn't get me very far.   The rod weight needs to be able to get the bend to launch, IE a light rod.  And I was thinking a longer rod, 7' or longer would give me more control and better distance than a shorter rod.  (By the way I am stuck on the bank)



Dug
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-Shawn-

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2008, 02:32:35 PM »

Rod length is important too. But Rod tip speed is what starts longer cast. Just like club head speed gets you longer drives in golf.

WRBass

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2008, 02:44:57 PM »

Doug, you are right in one sense, the fast taper means the upper 1/3 rd bends faster the the rest of the rod. What you may not be taking into consideration is the power of the rod. Power ratings are very difficult to compare from one rod maker to the next. Fenwick was one of the first to rate rods by lifting power, both Loomis and Lamiglas use very similar power ratings as Fenwick; were 1 power is very light and 7 power is very heavy, basically the maximum dead weight in pounds the rod can lift. Within the power rating is the action or how fast the rod bends from tip to butt. Very fast, fast and moderately fast, are how bass rods are rated. The mod/fast is close to being a  fiberglass "crankbait" action rod that bends about 1/2 of the upper section and still has enough back bone when loaded to hook and control a bass.
The rods mentioned are rated 3 power, line from 6 to 15 lb / lures 1/4 to 1/2 oz.
A parabolic rod is the best for casting light weight lures, because the entire rod bends to launch the lure, like a fly rod.
Both Lamiglas and Loomis are expensive rods, the less expensive makes offer good rods and may be listed as light or medium/light, the line & lure rating is a fairly good clue. You really need to touch and feel a rod to know how it might work for you.
WRB
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 02:48:44 PM by WRBass »
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Dug

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2008, 02:51:05 PM »

Shawn,

  I was always under the impression that tip speed can be stated as the faster the tip the faster it comes back from a bend.  A fast tip not only will snap back faster but the point at which the curve is critical is closer to the tip.   So I can see how that would help launch lures, but if it's light weight I am not going to get enough action from the tip, I think I need the whole rod. 

  Thanks WRBass.  i was actually considering the Carrotstix parabolic, but I am going to play with the 20 plus rods I already have to see if I just can't reapply one of them.  I have a couple of quantum rods that may fit the bill, that I never used because they have the play throughout  the rod length, which may be exactly what I was looking for.  I also have an older fenwick that is just a noodle, maybe too much so, but can play with that.

Dug
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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2008, 03:00:49 PM »

Yeah, Dug I think you are on the right track with the parabolic for shear distance. They just don't work good for me when I am skipping which is pretty much the only time I am throwing weightless, Except for a fluke.

Dug

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2008, 03:11:38 PM »

Yeah no skipping on this tactic.  this is to get sheer distance from the bank on lighter lures.

Dug
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beast96z

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2008, 05:04:25 PM »

I use a 7' M/Fast Crucial with a BPS Pro-lite for these applications. I had a Sol with a Parabolic Carrot Stick and distance wasn't noticeably different. The 50mg also throws 1/8 oz. pretty darn good. However for sheer distance with light lures, the Pro-lite is not as bad deal.
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Dug

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2008, 07:23:02 PM »

Thanks Beast that's why I inquired about those prolites.

Dug
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islandbass

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2008, 06:05:43 AM »

Now see this confuses me.  I understand that a fast tip bends more toward the tip of the rod, but over all, is a stiff rod as compared to a medium or slow action rod, and what I have always believed is that a slow rod is better for casting.  In which case, because I am trying to cast almost no weight, wouldn't I want a slower action rod?

Dug

It is perhaps more important to find a casting rod rated to throw the lures you want and that is probably going to be your challenge. There are not too many rods in the US market that are true UL casting rods.

The Chronarch 50mg is about $180 at Tackle Warehouse, the reel perhaps best suited for tossing lighter weights. I know my Curado D and BSF can toss 1/8 oz weights, but I imagine the MG would do far more easily.
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Dug

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2008, 06:09:17 AM »

It is perhaps more important to find a casting rod rated to throw the lures you want and that is probably going to be your challenge. There are not too many rods in the US market that are true UL casting rods.


I agree absolutely, I tried doing a search for a casting rod with a lure rating of 1/16 and found a couple so far believe it or not.

Dug
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islandbass

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2008, 08:39:06 AM »

Right on! Where did you find them?  ~sun
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ARX - IB's Daughter on BC Reels:
“Papi! I like this reel. It is so much easier to use than the other one (the spinning reel) and it is more fun to use too.” Now all I can say to that is this;
“That’s my little girl!”

Dug

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2008, 10:49:57 AM »

Found them here and there, for instance

St Croix Premier BC PC76LM    7' 6"    L    Mod. rated for 1/16 - 3/8 oz

B&R Outlaw   6'0" LENGHT, MEDIUM ACTION, 1 PC. ROD, 6 - 14  LB. TEST, 1/16 – 1/2 OZ. LURE

GLoomis
Model: CR842 GL3 Length: 7'  Line Weight:  4-8 Lure Weight: 1/16-5/16 Action: Fast Power: Light

Falcon Expert
EC-69L
Light UltraFast  6-15 lb. test  1/16 to 3/8 oz.  6' 9"  B

Pinnacle Scion
STM601CAML  LINE WT 6-14 LB LURE WT 1/16-1/2  OZ

Bass Pro Shops Woo Daves Signature XPS Bait Casting Rod. It is a model XTR60MLT

As you can see, there are several options in several prices ranges to choose from.

Dug
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islandbass

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2008, 11:33:47 AM »

Dug,

Thanks! That is a sweet looking list. I appreciate you sharing your findings.
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ARX - IB's Daughter on BC Reels:
“Papi! I like this reel. It is so much easier to use than the other one (the spinning reel) and it is more fun to use too.” Now all I can say to that is this;
“That’s my little girl!”

Dug

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Re: Ultralight baitcasting
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2008, 12:05:00 PM »

Dug,

Thanks! That is a sweet looking list. I appreciate you sharing your findings.

Glad to share!!

Dug
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