need flipping help, suggestions... UPDATE!!!

[JayPea2006]

Well, first time out this morning since the tournament to practice my flipping technique, and try out your suggestions. I did very well in thick, heavy matted crap in about 3' of water.

I snelled a 5/0 straight shanked hook (Owner) with #65 PP Braid. Used a Gambler Crawdaddy in emerald blue. Had 6 bites and caught 4 fish in a little more than an hour. All were hooked in roof of mouth with full hook penetration. I can't get over how little effort it took to set the hook with it snelled. Biggest was close to 5lbs, smallest was around 2lbs.

Thank you very much to everyone for your help.











Had a tourney this weekend and lost 4 toads that would have won me the tournament. I managed a 3lb'er with 20 minutes left to fish. My weight for tournament was 3 fish for 3.11 lbs.

In the past I've only used flipping as a last resort technique. I don't particulrly care for it, but as with anything else to do with fishing I want to improve. In this tourney it was a 3 fish limit, any size. It took 13.83 to win, and I estimate that my 3 biggest would have gone 17lbs. I managed to get my 1st fish close enough to the boat to see, and she was a solid 7-8lbs, but she turned over at the surface and when she got her head turned the hook flew out. The other lost fish would have gone an easy 4-5lbs.

Area: Extremely thick Kissimmee grass in 3' to 4' of water.
Problem: On hook set I would get several cranks of the handle before fish would turn head and pull free.
Equipment: Pflueger 6:3.1, 7'11" Shimano Crucial MH Flipping/Pitching stick.
Terminal Tackle: 65lb Power Pro Braid, 1.5oz Toungsten Weight, 5/0 Owner Wide Gap Offset Hook
Bait: Gambler Mega Craw

Hopefully someone out here in UB land can shed some light on what might have gone wrong. $1000 would've been nice.

[southern]

fishing luck maybe.sometimes it just aint your day,other than that i dont use wide gap hooks when flipping or really anytime except when i fish a weightless lizard.i flip and pitch with a gammy 3/0 offset hook.i think they hook up better.

[Choke Canyon Boy]

I dont understand why you are using a 1.5 ounce weight in 3 feet of water unless you were punching the mats. You lose all the action of your bait with that much weight. Try working a frog over the grass, or casting a lighter lure on top of the mat and then dragging it off. You also might not be setting the hook good enough. I know every time I am flipping and set the hook it goes all the way through the fishes mouth, and I rarely, rarely lose a fish.

[catt]

It’s simple geometry

Wide gap hooks have the hook point directly in line with the eye of the hook or slightly above the line eye on “extra wide gap” hooks. When you set the hook, the sinker and the front of the lure clear a path for the hook point to escape a bass’s mouth without imbedding. On straight shank hooks the point rides substantially above the eye of the hook and aims for the roof of the bass’s mouth, resulting in a more hook-ups. The extra wide gap hooks do an excellent job of holding fish if you manage to get the hook through the bass’s mouth on the hook set. There are plenty of times when a bass completely takes the bait and even on a short pitch with braided line, the hook flies cleanly out of the bass’s mouth on the hook set.

[basnbud]

also, if your really hittin em hard on the hook set, you may be tearing a large hole in the mouth and the hook has nothing to hold on to so it's falling out the hole. try a little softer hook set, or a softer rod if you continue w/ the braid

Basnbud

[Alex D]

2x what basnbud said...

you're using a 7'11" rod. You're moving a large amount of line on hook set with that long of a rod. braid has no stretch.

[gatrboy52]

three variables,
use a strait shank flippin hook and snell it.this will get the point farther back in the jaw instead of the lips where a ewg usually hooks.
use only as heavy a weight as needed to get to the bottom,the weight acts as a leverage point and will more often dislodge the hook
and the hookset...i dont buy a weak or soft hookset.just make sure you have a loaded rod and a strong hookset and keep his head up ,you control him not him control you.this is the hardest aspect of flippin is to control a big bass after hookset.if it can roll and thrash ,or get its head down your chances go way down.

[WRBass]

I agree with Catt on the straight shank hook; Mustad 32807BLN is good. Owner's 5132 Twistlock is another good alternative for pitching/flipping. One problem with big bass is they clamp down very hard when initially striking to kill and hold the prey. When you hook set the soft plastic can slide back and cover the hook point. Off set hooks are prone to this problem.
Secondly the Shimano rods are not as strong other pitching/flipping rods with similar ratings. A new rod is the Lamiglas Excel XL7116C for about $120, light and strong, well suited for your type of fishing.
With soft plastics fished vertically try a snap set; drop the rod tip and snap it back, lift, then reel.
I wouldn't change your presentation, you are getting strikes. Sometimes the bass win when fishing in tight heavy cover.
WRB

[Fogy]

Area: Extremely thick Kissimmee grass in 3' to 4' of water.
Problem: On hook set I would get several cranks of the handle before fish would turn head and pull free.
Equipment: Pflueger 6:3.1, 7'11" Shimano Crucial MH Flipping/Pitching stick.
Terminal Tackle: 65lb Power Pro Braid, 1.5oz Toungsten Weight, 5/0 Owner Wide Gap Offset Hook
Bait: Gambler Mega Craw

On straight shank hooks the point rides substantially above the eye of the hook and aims for the roof of the bass’s mouth, resulting in a more hook-ups.

JayPea I agree along with catt that a straight shank hook will be the biggest help to you.

Everyone has things they like better, rods/reels/line/hooks for me I started using the BMH hook in 4/0 & 5/0 but have switched to the Trokar in 4/0 & 5/0 there was an issue with some of the 1st run 4/0's but that has been fixed; those hooks are just so sharp that I don't use them prefishing any more.

The size of the weight IMHO isn't much of an issue, however I try to use a 3/4 True Toungsten or KaRu Football weight to get it through the grass/pads and so on but will go bigger when needed.  I believe that by shaking the weight to get it to fall through the grass helps on slow bite days because the commotion on top of the grass draws the bass in and when it falls they are there or at least close by to see the bait drop.

Good Luck Buddy
Ron

[jstrozier]

I agree with the straight shank hook.....But then again I use wide gaps just as much and havnt lost to many fish.

JayPea........sounds like bad luck dood. Just plain bad luck..........

[JayPea2006]

Thanks for all the great replies.

I was fishing in dead, matted over Kissimmee grass, and had a 3/4oz as well as the 1.5oz weight rigged. It was so thick that I managed to use the 1.5oz all day to punch through.

A friend of mine told me last night on the phone to snell a straight shank hook. I watched several YOU TUBE demonstrations on how to do it, and with some practice I rigged up using a straight shank hook, snelled.

The 5/0 Owner wide gap hook I used yesterday is a heavy wire hook, and I feel like it had that as well as being a wide gap hook going against it.

I should have been able to assess this problem on the water and make the change, but had been told by a lot of people to use a wide gap hook.

Going out again this weekend to practice with the snelled straight shank hook to see if I can improve the results.

Thanks again to everyone for your insight and help.

[Fogy]

You can snell them if you want but make sure it's just as fast and easy as whatever knot you use now or you won't want to retie and will push the limits until the line gives out and you lose a fish.

I don't snell, don't see the need but others might so it's up to you to find what you like best. 

[JayPea2006]

You can snell them if you want but make sure it's just as fast and easy as whatever knot you use now or you won't want to retie and will push the limits until the line gives out and you lose a fish.

I don't snell, don't see the need but others might so it's up to you to find what you like best. 

I could see right of the bat why some people love it. The weight causes the snelled hook to stand straight out to the side. I'll be really interested to see what kind of results I get with it.

[senkofan1]

I do alot of flipping here at lake seminole in thick grass matts i agree that either way you will lose some. I will have to try the straight shank hook I have been using the extra wide gaps also. One tip I always use when flipping is when I set the hook instead of trying to pull them through the grass matt I set the hook then go over in the grass and try to get them out. I have noticed I have landed 50% more going and getting them out of the grass instead of trying to rip them out of the grass. Hope that helps.

[catt]

I use a Palomar knot & Mustad’s Denny Brauer Straight Shank Flipping Hook P/N: 32807BLNU32. Another plus is hook penetration is usually in the roof of the mouth

Keep it vertical with flips approximately 8 to 10 feet away max, the farther away the better the odds of the bass burying in the grass.

Set hook like you are trying to break some thing, get that head turned and don’t stop

[gatrboy52]

a snelled s.s. hook has a distinct advantage over even a knotted s.s. hook. not only does the hook flip up to a 90 deg. it also takes all stress off the knot cause there aint no knot tied to the eye.i put a drop of s. glue on the snell for added safety and have never had a problem.
as for the weight,use only tunsten flippin weights,for several reasons.1-size,they are smaller than lead and get tru the cover easier and more importantly the weight is what a big bass will clamp down on.there is tremendous pressure applied on the weight when they clamp down on it.w/ lead and reg. un painted tungsten their teeth can dig into the weight and even the hardest hookset wont dislodge it.the hardened painted weights i.e. denny brauer flippin weights or the penetrator weights are designed that that the teeth will slide down the weight onto the hook....more and better hooksets.
the other factor is leverage.a bulky weight can and does dislodge the hook from a thrashing basses mouth.
more hooked fish are lost because the bass uses the angler.usually wraps around something and pulls off or rolls,thrashes,untill the hook works free.
if your going to fish for big bass in their jungle you better have what it takes to get em out or many times you will lose em.
hit em hard and dont give a inch. no drag pull ,no give,or youll have your feelins hurt really bad.
even the best laid plan when flippin and your still going to lose fish,its the nature of the game,but,you can improve the odds,and maybe put a fish or two more in the boat if you plan accordingly.

[-Shawn-]

I agree with Catt and WRB,  Go to a Strait shank hook. But if you Still use an EWG whille flipping Change your hookset.  I am right handed and find that swinging the rod back over my Right shoulder gets a better hookset flipping than Straight up with an EWG.  Also like Fogy said go with as small a weight as you can,  If a 3/4 will get through the matt with a shake then use it.  The more weight you have pegged to that hook the more chance of the hook popping out with a headshake. You can also use the  Tru Tungsten Smartpegs, They will let the weight slide away from the fishes mouth after hookset.  I have tried owners and in my experiece  I got too many liphooks because the slid in the fishes mouth.  I am using Trokars now and I love them.  If you change to a Straight shank you will get a lot more Gill plate and roof of mouth hook ups which are very hard for a bass to throw.

[senkofan1]

Ok after reading the responses I moved to a straight shank hook and learned how to snell the hook. Holy cow you can tell the difference the first bass I set the hook on yesterday the hook went through the top of the fishes mouth and the point was out his eye. The only problem I have this rig is that because the hook stands more at a 90 degree  the bait stands out a little awkward not sure if you guys are having this problem.

[-Shawn-]

With the Straight shank hook I don't Texpose the hook and it will let the bait hang straight.  You also won't tear as many plastics up either.  With the Trokar I have no problem with getting the hook to come through the plastic on hookset. 

[JayPea2006]

Ok after reading the responses I moved to a straight shank hook and learned how to snell the hook. Holy cow you can tell the difference the first bass I set the hook on yesterday the hook went through the top of the fishes mouth and the point was out his eye. The only problem I have this rig is that because the hook stands more at a 90 degree  the bait stands out a little awkward not sure if you guys are having this problem.

According to Terry Scroggins, he prefers the snell because it makes the craws he uses hang in a defensive posture. There's a new episode of Classic Patterns where he's flipping heavy mats in Rodman using this setup. Found it very informational and educational. Can't wait to get back out on the water to give it a try. I've got 2 rods set up, ready to go.

Thanks again to everyone for the great info on this subject.