Florida Bass

Started by BIG PAPA, August 13, 2003, 02:12:40 PM

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BIG PAPA

This article was copied  and pasted from An article in Southern ponds and wild life



 
In one study where northern strain bass were stocked in the same lake with Florida strain bass, the northern bass were 10 times more likely to be caught.



  Bass Attack, The Northern Invasion By Don C. Keller A few years ago, I heard about a landowner who had a 2 1/2-acre lake that he was draining. He was sure there were no bass in his lake. The lake was small enough that he could fish it thoroughly yet he caught only a few bass. He was convinced that either poachers or otters had decimated his bass population. After he had the water drained low, a local fish farmer came over with a long seine to remove the bluegill from the pond. Once the net was pulled in, they discovered that the lake was supporting over 100 pounds of adult Florida bass per acre!

This is not a unique example. Unfortunately, I must admit that I have contributed to this problem. My partner, Barry Smith and I have over 60 years combined experience working with largemouth bass. We started our business, AMERICAN SPORT FISH, in 1986 and began stocking lakes with Florida strain bass. We knew that the Floridas lived for a long time and had good growth rates, especially after the third year. There was a lot of publicity about Florida bass being caught in California that weighed 16 to 20 pounds. Our customers wanted Florida bass and we supplied them.

However, we eventually came to realize that there was a negative side to this program. Barry explains, "We knew from the beginning that the Florida bass were harder to catch, but we didn't realize the scope of the problem. As these bass got bigger and older, they refused to bite artificial lures. Seven or eight years after we stocked the lakes with the Florida strain bass, many owners became disgruntled because they couldn't catch these big bass. We found that even if someone's pond or lake grew a 14-lb to 16-lb bass, that fish had no value if they could not catch it."

Research conducted more than 20 years ago by the Fisheries Departments at both Auburn University and Texas A&M determined that northern largemouth bass were significantly easier to catch than Florida largemouth bass. In one study where northern strain bass were stocked in the same lake with Florida strain bass, the northern bass were 10 times more likely to be caught. The Texas Parks and Wildlife initiated several studies to determine if catchability is an inherited characteristic. Their conclusion: bass that are easier to catch produce offspring that are easier to catch. Catchability is an inherited trait!

papa


 

 

 

Mike Noble

Quite interesting.  We need that article to take to BassLife to support a request that they start stocking native bass.

Thanks Papa!
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Gabby

Wow.

They must have over-stocked the Red River with Florida Bass....

Paul Keith

I have been preaching for years now that florida bass are tougher to catch. I speak on regular basis to Mike Ryan (East Texas Biologist for Caddo Lake) and have proposed that instead of ONLY stocking florida bass to stock native bass also, cannot convince him....? Also have spoke with many people on the Bass Life board and shown them articles just like what Papa posted and didnt get much favor there either.
I

Mike Cork

To everyone it's all about the trophy, sure I would love to catch a trophy, but when you spend hours on a lake and only catch a couple of slot fish it is tough to go back. I think a good mix would be great. The bioligist and bass life both say that the numbers in the lake are great and that is what is important. True you have to have good quantities of fish but if you can't catch them who cares ;) Maybe I just need to get better at fishing :-*

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Mike Noble

I have had these discussions with James Seales (Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Biologist) and he told me..."everyone" wanted Florida bass stocked when this program started.  If folks want it changed, they need to meet with Wildlife and Fisheries.  Also, he said the cost of stocking native bass would not be beneficial because the lakes get "enough" native bass from the natural spawn.  I have also talked to BassLife members and they won't budge.
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Paul Keith

My computer froze up before I finished posting...? Anyway, I have notced a drastic drop in numbers of bass caught since the early stockings of 1980 and 81. I love to catch big bass as much as anyone but enjoy the numbers also. Can remember the summers of many years past where the black bass would school heavy from July through Nov. by the thousands. There would be areas as large as 5 acres like between Big and Little Green Break where you would catch catch 1-3 lb. bass till you were sick(lol) of it. But I have noticed that the floridas just dont school like the natives. I'm with Mike and Papa....what good does having plenty of bass in a lake when they are much harder to catch and much more picky on when and what to eat.   FOOD for thought......Fishing license sales have been much lower over the past decade than in years past...could it be that bass fishermen are finding out the same thing many of us already know?? In the U.S., bass fisherman are the largest percentage of fishermen who buy license.

Mike Noble

I don't know about the folks in Texas, but I believe Wildlife and Fisheries in Louisiana are willing to at least listen.  I have been talking to the biologist about the stocking and slot limits.  They are open to sitting down with us and discussing...we just need a game plan.  And I haven't had the time to keep this going but am very willing to get the ball rolling again.  It might be after the UBCS...but I'm willing.
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Mike Cork

We as bass fisherman definitely spend the most money when it comes to fishing. The tax revenue from bass fisherman has got to be phenomenal to say the least. If we could somehow rally we definitely could put a crippling blow to the revenue generated for fish and game, but we would have to give up our sport for a bit.

Paul, when I was a kid, I remember fishing in Florida and seeing the same thing, but for the life of me I don't know why these fish will not do that. I got to wonder if taking them out of there natural habitate as far as environment doesn't have a lot to do with that. OR that because of natural cross breading the lake is getting a whole new version of bass in it and they just don't school? By the way your link up ~c~

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SeminoleFan

I think alot of the reasons they are stocking Florida Strained Bass is because they grow much faster, Giving someone the chance to catch a trophy? A lot of states are after the World Record Bass. Texas has the share-lunker program that breeds these 13 lb + hawgs hoping to create the UltimateBASS :) and the World Record. Ray Scott is also trying to grow one in his own pond. ~shhh

Unfortunately the Florida Strained bass is also more susceptable to weather changes making them more finicky. In California, they persuade them big boys with trout swimbaits. Then again the bass stack up and wait for the trout truck. Weird. Smart little creatures that also learn. For they must to survive.  :help:
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Rick Bedford

fishforfree

well, well, well.........................doesn't that story answer my bass catching problems

AND I thought it was just me  :roll2: :roll2:


fff


P.S. - It really is me

Paul Keith

Hey Mike Noble, next time you talk with that biologist ask him how does he find that the natve bass population will go up with the spawn when 92% of the bass in the lake have the florida gene????This percentage came straight from samples taken from the Texas fisheries dept. I already asked Mike Ryan the same question and got only silence over the phone. I am a supporter of the Florida Bass but I think we went wrong in only stocking floridas especially in these later years where we have a large percentage of floridas already. Especially on Caddo after 25 yrs since the originals were stocked. The percentage of bass with the florida gene is going to naturally dominate as the original natives have passed on and lowered from 100 to 8%
I would like my kids to get out and catch them as I did here as a child. Had loads of fun on the schoolies.

Mike Noble

Good point and thanks.  I have to put together notes and questions and information so we can meet with them....can I count on you to be present when we finally get a meeting.  You are very knowledgable.  ~c~
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Mike Cork

Yes SeminoleFan it is all about the trophy and world record. The problem is that a Florida bass by it's self will not get to the world record size (at least not under the fishing and environmental pressures of today) but you mix that fish with a northern strain and this new bread can get that big. Then you feed them the High protein trout and whammo you have a huge bass. Now there is another problem, the high protein diet takes it's toll on the bass and they don't live as long. So now the lakes in California that were getting very close are on a down swing because that perfect breed of bass didn't live very long and is continually being bread against the northern strain and the Florida gene pool is getting smaller and so are the fish.

Here in Louisiana the introduction of the Florida strain bass did bring the chances of catching a double digit fish but there are many fishless days on that same water :'(

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Paul Keith

Just let me know when and I'll participarte too. Is it possible to post a phone number or email to the La. biologists to give an opinion? Texas biologists are some great guys but have only a big bass mindset in my findings.

Mike Cork

Paul, Mike Noble has all these numbers and as soon as he see's this I am sure he will post them for us. I agree the texas guys are great folks, I have talked with them several times on the lake and most of those times they wanted to question me about the lake and what I though about it. Even handed me a survey to find out how much time I spend up there with places to suggest things that would make it a place I would visit more often.

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Mike Noble

What he has suggested is a "face to face" meeting as a group....and him working to get folks up from Baton Rouge.  I think that would be a great opportunity for our voices to be heard.
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Mike Cork

Mike when you get a chance, could you post the contact numbers you have :-\

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Jared LeBlue

Here are some things I have learned. 1st off the shared lunker program is not working all that well. I talked with a biologist at one of the hatcheries here in Louisiana and he told me the those big wild sows really don't take to the tanks well and they seldom get eggs from them. He went on to say that they do it mostely for promotional reasons. He also told me that Florida Bass are less aggresiive than native bass. He said that they no longer spawn the native bass and the reason is supply and demand. Like with all things our WLF jumped on board with the stocking of Floridas without doing much research. Yes we, and I am including myself, all wanted Floridas stocked for the reasons stated in the above post but we were never told that they were less aggressive and that they would completely stop stocking our native bass. I don't believe that the native bass population is up to par. If it was we would not be having this discussion.
Down in South Louisiana we are losing bass fisherman by the hundreds if not thousands. Saltwater fishing is the big thing down here and you can hardly blame people for switching. Bass are getting harder and harder to catch and I believe the main reason is the sole stocking of Florida bass. In a world of instant gradification it is hard to get a kid to go bass fishing. Think about this 20 years ago catching a 5 or 6lb bass was awesome and you would be proud to have one. Today everyone is looking for that double digit fish and they are getting harder to come by and what is really sad is so is the 5 and 6lbers.
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Mike Noble

I could not locate a number at work....maybe I have it at home.  Here is the biologists (James Seales) email address:

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