Hey Trigger, Lets Talk Rigging.

[Pferox]

Started this thread so we can talk about the working end of the line. 

There are tons of variants on basically two bottom rigs to get the job done.  The first and probably simplest one is the Carolina Rig, salty guys call it a fish finder rig.

The more common one used in the actual surf for some obvious reasons is the Dropper rig, which can be single or double, or more even.

[Pferox]

The sink rate of fluorocarbon has little effect when talking about surf fishing, just so you know.  Its abrasion resistance is the main reason for using it.

Couple of things, lines above 30 lbs become a PIA to tie.  Fluorocarbon must be well lubed when you cinch it down.  Make sure you don't cross the wraps even in the swivel when tying because that is where the knot will fail.  Unlike freshwater fishing, leave a little longer tag end.

Using a lighter to melt the tag end a little then pressing on the soft end to make a little bulb can save your butt if the knot slips.

You will find that fluoro will start to get expensive after a while, just an FYI.  I don't see much difference between that and mono in the heavier weights for the fish I catch, you might though, dunno.

[Trigger3lite]

What about rigs for artificials?

[Pferox]

That is a whole different rod.  Most guys working the surf with arties are using slightly heavier duty bass gear, either baitcasters or spinning, because it has to be a lot lighter to cast multiple times during a day.  At least around here, not sure what they are doing your way exactly.

Usually they are just tossing line and maybe a heavier leader or wire for little toothy critters, and the lure.  Many are up to their chest in the surf doing this, btw.  And are usually targeting smaller fish compared to what you can hookup with long casts.  They are also set up so that if a shark of interesting size bites, it takes the lure and goes, game over.

[Lee Smith]

Y'all keep it up, I'm learnin' stuff and I like it   

[Trigger3lite]

I'm almost done here with all my questions. This is probably the last one (you're probably thinking "thank god") haha. So, what exactly is the bead for on rigs?

[Pferox]

There is a guy that fishes RollOver pass that only uses lures, and holds or has tied a couple world records of some bigger fish from what I understand.
I posted a little about him here. http://www.ultimatebass.com/bass-fishing-forum/index.php?topic=120117.0

All of his rods are modified fly rods around 8 to 10 feet long, and he uses A LOT of 6lb braided line.  He uses a double jig rig usually and bounces it or swims it across the pass. 

Even though the rod is long, the whole combo is pretty light and can make a lot of casts in a day.  He ties the jigs on with 20lb floro usually, and only uses one swivel.  Don't know how that rig would work in the surf, but it is more than doable, one of these days I am going to build one and try to get proficient with it.

I am pretty sure that his whole rig he is casting out weighs less than an ounce, what gives him the big distance is the rod length, flexibility, and super light line.  Bringing in the fish takes patience, good drag, and a lot of runs to tire out the fish.

[Smallie_Stalker]

Y'all keep it up, I'm learnin' stuff and I like it   

Me too Lee. I filled up a couple of pages of a notebook just from reading the BAIT thread. Before long these guys are going to have me buying a reel for the one saltwater rod I own and start trying some of this stuff. I don't live but about a 10 minute walk to the Atlantic. 

[Pferox]

Me too Lee. I filled up a couple of pages of a notebook just from reading the BAIT thread. Before long these guys are going to have me buying a reel for the one saltwater rod I own and start trying some of this stuff. I don't live but about a 10 minute walk to the Atlantic. 

I'd be there almost every day.  We are trying to find a place closer to the shore now, especially now since I'm not going to be able to go back to work.  Only problem is that now fishing funds are a lot shorter too. 

[Smallie_Stalker]

When I lived in Hull I lived about 100 feet from the shore of a little bay and I never once got a line wet. In fact, since I moved south of Boston 24 years ago I have lived on or near the ocean shoreline most of the time. I don't know why I never fished any of it. Just didn't seem to interest me at the time. But as I get older I find that I want to try different types of fishing and fishing for different species. Living so close to the salt I guess that is a good place to start.

[BenFishing]

Don't forget, even when surf casting, you can still fish your bait near the surface.  Usually, because of styrofoam floats/balloons/flashers, you lose a little distance in your casting, but it does give you a whole new group of fish to catch...albacore, mackerel, and bluefish.
Plus, with a balloon, if the current is going out, you can cast, leave your bail open, and let the current drag your bait out further.

[Pferox]

Don't forget, even when surf casting, you can still fish your bait near the surface.  Usually, because of styrofoam floats/balloons/flashers, you lose a little distance in your casting, but it does give you a whole new group of fish to catch...albacore, mackerel, and bluefish.
Plus, with a balloon, if the current is going out, you can cast, leave your bail open, and let the current drag your bait out further.

That is true, I always forget to mention that because around here we are usually so shallow that a double rig will almost cover the whole water column, and no matter what the tide is, the currents tend to push towards shore.

I was casting a long single drop rig once, with cut mullet on the hook, I looked and the dang bait was floating like a topwater lure.   

[BenFishing]

I was casting a long single drop rig once, with cut mullet on the hook, I looked and the dang bait was floating like a topwater lure.   

Cutting edge stuff, right there....Using the swim bladder as a float 

[Pferox]

Yea, but I don't think it was on purpose. lol.

I did float fish a lot on the Sunshine skyway, it was a great way to work baits out a long ways from where you were at. 

[Pferox]

When I lived in Hull I lived about 100 feet from the shore of a little bay and I never once got a line wet. In fact, since I moved south of Boston 24 years ago I have lived on or near the ocean shoreline most of the time. I don't know why I never fished any of it. Just didn't seem to interest me at the time. But as I get older I find that I want to try different types of fishing and fishing for different species. Living so close to the salt I guess that is a good place to start.

I would, what are the specks on that rod you have?  Maybe we can look into a good starter reel for it. 

[Smallie_Stalker]

I had to dig it out of the back of a closet where I keep older rods. It's nothing fancy. It is a 2 piece Ugly Stick Big Water rod.

Model BWS 1100. It is 8' long and it says Line Weight 10 - 25 lbs Lure Weight  3/4 - 3 oz.

Through my association with Pure Fishing I can buy one Penn Reel per year at a really good discount. But just to start out I may not need to go that fancy. So any recommendations would be great.

[Pferox]

I have two of those exact same rods in 7 foot here, they are casting fools with about an ounce and a half on em.  Great pier rods.  Just clean the salt off of the guides once a year or so.

Actually, a Penn Pursuit II in about 5000 or 6000 would be awesome on that rod.  I have a few of them and although they aren't HT100 drags, they are quite nice. 

Another reel to look into is Quantum Optix 60 reel.  They are cheap BEASTS, only drawback to them is that if you rinse them down you have to take the drag knob and spool off and let them dry out.  When you first get them, you need to put a coating of grease on the shaft that the spool goes through to keep it from rusting.

Another one that is a fantastic reel from what I heard, but it is left hand retrieve only is the Daiwa DF100A.  That thing is cheap and huge.  With it being left hand retrieve only, I can't use it, otherwise I would have one or three on a few rod.

I would have suggested a 4000 reel and braid in that length, but that is a pretty heavy rod, and you would be better off with the larger reel to balance it out.

Fill it with some 20 or 30 lb mono and you would be smoking very cheaply.  Big Game, Ande, Cajun, CXX, Siege just about any of the stiffer, or harder monos will work.

Man, my wife would kill me if I had a deal like that with Penn, I would be decked out in all kinds of bling.

[Pferox]

I'm almost done here with all my questions. This is probably the last one (you're probably thinking "thank god") haha. So, what exactly is the bead for on rigs?

OK, I found it. (from the other thread)  To be honest, you are just starting.  Just wait until you actually cast a line. 

Beads do a lot of things, they act as spacers, visual attractors (depending on color), a few of them together act as a sound attractor, (when they clack together they sound like shrimp), and they act as knot protectors sometimes.  It all depends on the rigs.

In the double rig I showed in a picture around here somewhere  they are actually acting as ball bearings for the swivel so it can move freely without putting any wear on the line.  That double rig is a whole bunch of science, and design, I'll tell you.  (insert patting on own back smilie)

[Smallie_Stalker]

Thank you. I will look into them all. Left hand is the only way I roll spinning or otherwise, so they will all fit the bill. 

[Pferox]

Ya know, I ought to just start a PFEROX BABBLES thread.   

There is a lot I don't know about wire leaders, but let me share the little I do know.

There are basically three kinds of metal leaders, solid wire, stranded, and tieable stranded.  OH yea a fourth one, winch cable.

Solid wire is good stuff, it is pretty flexible, easy to do connections without crimps, just a haywire twist, I think the knot is called and it is good to go.  Only problem is that is it worse than fluoro when it gets a kink.  It is guaranteed to separate on the next thought of a fish.  I actually carry some with me all the time (better check my tackle bag now) because it is a quick and easy way to get a wire leader in a pinch.  I usually use a non flashy color and put that on when I'm into Mackerel heavy.

Stranded leaders come in coated and uncoated, they are quite flexible, and is my choice when I pre make wire rigs, which I haven't done in quite a while.  They don't work well with aluminium crimps because of hydrolysis. They hold up well to just about all but the biggest toothy critters, and will hold up to them if you use a heavy enough one.  I'm just too cheap when I can make heavy mono leaders to do the same job at a fraction of the cost, although mine can fail with mid sized toothy critters.

Tieable stranded leaders are new to me, although they have been around a while.  I actually haven't tried to work with these, although I would like to, maybe even change from the solid wire stuff to this stuff in my tackle bag, I'll have to check my bag to see if I need some.

Then there is winch cable, they are strong, stiff, and crimped with pipe, I think, never had the equipment to work with that stuff, so am not real familiar with it.

You can kind of think of them like braid is they are much thinner for their break strengths than the equivalent mono or fluoro and they are very difficult to bite through.

[Trigger3lite]

What crimp size should I get for 0.81 mm?

[Pferox]

What crimp size should I get for 0.81 mm?

To be honest, I haven't a clue.  Probably a crimp with that size ID, or a bit larger, I would guess.  Probably a #5 I would suppose.  Need to cross reference the manufacturer of the leader with the size they suggest on their website.

One of the reasons I buy kits usually, don't have to think about it.   

[Trigger3lite]

I figured out what size I needed, it was in the specifications the whole time. 

Anyway, I think I have everything I need besides the hooks, sinkers, and beads which I'm planning to buy from my local tackle shop because it's cheaper. Also going to use my cooler as a tackle box for now. I'm not sure about the finger protection, they might or might not have it. Might use gloves for now because it's cold anyway. Am I missing anything? Also, would the ugly stik be able to handle big fish?

[bigjim5589]

For the salt fishing I do with baits, I primarily use two basic rigs. One is the fish finder rig that Jim mentioned, it's a sliding rig with a float on the leader that keeps the bait off the bottom, and only has a single hook. The other is the top & bottom rig, and I like what they call a Tennis Cord Top & Bottom rig. This is a heavy duty rig, that keeps the hook leaders away from the main line. It's a very good rig for fishing from a boat or a pier, and is primarily something you're going to be fishing vertically. So, all you do is bait the hooks & drop it straight down. If you use the correct amount of weight, it takes it to the bottom & you can feel it when it bumps the bottom. Too much weight makes it more difficult to feel the bites. I also like to use hooks & leaders that have a few beads and a spinner attached. IMO, the spinner blade will add some extra attraction to draw the fish to the baits particularly since this type of fishing is almost always done where there will be some current.

A lot of the ready made hooks that have spinners also have red beads with them, but since I like to make my own, I use beads of various colors. Red has it's place, but I like chartreuse & pearl too, and sometimes even black seems to produce well. 

[Trigger3lite]

Yes a silver spinner would be good because the primary bait-fish in my area is the Atlantic Silverside. I'll try out your rigs, I like the sound of that Tennis Cord Top & Bottom rig. Hopefully I'll get to fishing soon.