abec ratings on bearings

[fish_sauce]

I've read lots of topics regarding bearings.  Here's a little info to help you guys out.  Years ago, I worked as a salesperson for different bearing companies.  My uncle owned a bearing wholesale company.  I worked for him, selling everything from minatures to ones used for oil rigs.  Then, I went off to Motion Industries and Applied Industrial selling SKF, FAG, Torrington, and a bunch of other brands.  I then went to specialize in pneumatics.  I took my pneumatic specialist exam once, and missed it by one point. I really studied bearings for years before going to real estate.  If anything, I was once an expert on bearings.

Bearings come in inch and metric sizes.  Abec ratings have to do with the actual balls in the bearings.  Let's say, the balls in the bearing are supposed to be 10mm.  In a perfect world, the balls would measure exaxtly 10mm.  However, we don't.  The abec ratings have to do with the tolerance of the ball measurements.  Just an example.  I'm just making up numbers for reference, not exactly abec standards.  If the balls were within .50mm, it would be considered abec 1.  If the balls were within .10, it would be considered abec 5.  So, the closer you are within the tolerances, the higher the abec ratings.  On a cheap China made bearing, there's a guy at the factory with a pair of calipers measuring balls and sorting them by abecs.  On a more expensive bearing, the balls are made with more precision on the higher abec ones. 

Now, you're wondering, why does an abec 7 spin faster than an abec 1?  Here's the answer.  They pack the abec ones with grease and abec 7's with oil.  It gives you the illusion that you have a faster, higher quality bearing.  In fact, you're wrong.  On a Chinese made bearing, it costs the same to produce.  The balls inside have closer tolerances.  An abec 7 isn't any faster nor will it last any longer than an abec 1. 

Now, when it comes to aircraft bearings, that's a different story.  They make special bearings for those purposes.  On minature bearings for a fishing reel, I doubt they will put high grade bearings on them.  Minature bearings can range from a couple bucks to more than your reel costs.  The higher grade ones are used on precision machines, like for the semiconductor industry. 

[fish_sauce]

I've also seen fishing reel bearings with ceramic balls.  I imagine they're probably for weight reduction.  Abec 1 is all you need for a fishing reel.  It's not a high rpm, precision machine.  Save your money for lures.  If you really want a good bearing, buy an abec 1 and lube it yourself with some quality oil. 

I used to sell 608 bearings also, for skateboarders.  It's ridiculous how much people pay for abec 7's, and had no idea as to what they were purchasing. 

[fish_sauce]

Also, with the different brands.  They are only a handful of places qualified to make bearing steel.  Bearing steel is different from your average steel.  With that being said, all these different brands most likely come from the same factory.  For example, my uncle's factory in China.  Brand "A" comes in with specs on a certain bearing.  They want it with rubber shields and oiled with a certain brand of lube.  They come up with a contract on minimum purchase a year, blah blah blah, and then they stamp it with their brand name.  Boom!  Now, it's an official brand name bearing.  Flip it over, it says made in China.  It's not easy to make bearing steel.  That's why only a couple of factories produce all the brands that you've come to known.

[fish_sauce]

Also, forgot to add.  Most of your bearings are probably made in China.  There's only one company in the US that can make bearing steel, Timken.  Their bearings would cost way too much to put into a fishing reel.  SKF and FAG are European.  They too, are pricey.  Plus, I doubt a company like Timken, with their reputation would stamp it with any other name.  If you have a bearing stamped with anything other than one of these huge companies, it's made in China.  If your reel has 7, 8, or even 10 bearings, it wouldn't be worth it to put these big brands into your reel, especially when people go nuts over abec 5 or 7.  From China, they all come out of the same factory anyways.  It just depends on what wholesaler gets the contract.  Sad, but true. 

[oldjim]

Not so fast, doin't disagree about manf. but I have cleaned and lubed different kinds of bearings. The  apec 5-7 bearings definately give a faster spool speed than stock bearings cleaned and relubed. like to hear some of our experts viewes, Mike?
Oldjim

[fish_sauce]

Not so fast, doin't disagree about manf. but I have cleaned and lubed different kinds of bearings. The  apec 5-7 bearings definately give a faster spool speed than stock bearings cleaned and relubed. like to hear some of our experts viewes, Mike?
Oldjim

You don't have to take my word for it.  Here are some links.
http://www.astbearings.com/abec-ratings.html
http://skateboarding.transworld.net/news/the-abec-myth/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABEC_scale

They basically tell you the same thing I'm telling you.  I did this for a living, for years.  I had insight even my coworkers didn't have because I worked from the manufacturing/wholesale side of it, to distribution, all the way to working with end users on a daily basis.  I've seen bearings as small as a pencil eraser to ones that are three feet across, lifted up by forklift only.

The stock bearings probably needed to be replaced, not cleaned and relubed.  New bearings, even abec 1's would have done just as well as abec 7's.  Just make sure you lube them yourself with oil, not grease.  Abec 1's come greased so they seem slower.  It's a way to trick you into buying a higher abec.  I've seen this for myself.  They make way more money selling you an abec 7.  It costs the same to produce and abec7 as it does an abec1.  At least the ones made in China.  Now, if you were to buy aircraft bearings, that's a different story. 

If you still don't believe me, I can give you contacts to purchase bearings yourself, at a much cheaper price, and they'll tell you exactly what I've explained also. 

[Mike Cork]

I've read this and do agree. Everything I've ever read in my search for the best bearing is that the ABEC rating is a tolerance rating and that the higher the number the lower the tolerance. I've never read in a civilian document that ABEC rating had anything to do with over all quality that wasn't simply personal opinion. That said, Fish_Sauce, I have yet read the links you just posted.

As a repair specialist (aircraft mechanic for the A.F. [20 years] and reel repair [30 years]) I have to admit that the lowest I've ever dealt with is an ABEC 3. At aircraft specifications an ABEC 3 is a quality bearing used in many places. In the military the ABEC rating was directly proportionate to the speed at which the bearing was expected to work. Example, an actuator bearing that rotated very slow could/would be an ABEC 3 and a Landing Gear Wheel bearing would have to be an ABEC 7 or better. Both bearings had to be reliable and absolutely could not fail. We're talking airplanes that just can't stop and park on the side of the road when something fails. SO this is to state that ABEC doesn't necessarily relate to quality. An ABEC 3 can be just as good as an ABEC 7. But you can't expect and ABEC 3 to spin as fast as an ABEC 7 without issues. The most common issue being heat. Obviously a more precise bearing can spin faster without generating as much heat.

Fishing reels simply don't spin as fast for the length of time to require extremely precise bearings. However, when talking tolerances, on a very small level (at the fishing reel level) a lower ABEC rating will vibrate mover than a higher ABEC rating. This vibration is robbing casting distance. However again, this distance robbing factor will never be noticed by a bass angler in my opinion. If you'd like to research this further look into casting competitions. We're talking guys that are trying to cast a football field. To win these competitions you need only to be able to cast a centimeter further than your opponent after great distances. By using a higher tolerance bearing and reducing many other vibrating causing factors in a reel, you can cast further than the next guy.

I can go through a standard bait caster and polish the pinion gear internal bore, the spool shaft, and depending on the braking system - the brake drum, put clean ABEC 3 bearings in it, and most anglers will swear it was better than new. This is because most internal parts of a reel, in relation to a cast, are not anywhere close to the tolerances required of a ABEC 3 bearing. So it's not the bearing slowing you down.

When asked, "Should I replace the bearings?" I always say no, unless they are bad. Bad being, corroded, making excessive noise, or physically cracked. Maybe not for the exact same reasons that Fish_Sauce posted, but I agree anglers spend a lot of money on bearings that really didn't make any difference.

The centimeter that the ultra long casting distance guys achieve has somehow crossed over into bass fishing. Probably because the first few guys had a reel that wasn't working properly because it was due a cleaning. Bearings and internal parts get gunked up. So while tearing it down to clean it the angler decides to install some of these fancy high dollar bearings. When he makes his first cast with a clean reel, he is amazed. IMO he would have been just as amazed if he simply cleaned his bearings and reinstalled them (assuming they original bearings were not damaged).

Oldjim, to reference your experience I'd have to ask which brand of reel you replaced the stock bearings in and seen such improvements. I totally believe you did see significant improvements  Take Shimano for example, my favorite brand but they are notorious for getting to much grease in a reel. They don't sweat it as it makes the reel wear less but it slows down performance as that grease works it's way to places it shouldn't be like bearings and spool shafts.

I know I've been as clear as mud but it's a difficult question to answer as there are a ton of factors.

[LgMouthGambler]

I know for a fact that most of Shimano and Daiwas bearings they use are at least a 3 for their mid to high end reels. As far as Doyo products, Im not sure. Do you need anything more than that, I would say no. When you get into the Abec5's and 7's (sometimes 9's), its more for spool start-up speed. A spool will never turn fast enough to need a higher bearing than a 3 per say. Again, higher than 3 you get start-up speed and ease of casting.

[Oldfart9999]

All I know is my old Quatum Irons with 3 ball bearings that even sealed when cleaned and lubed with Hot sauce can toss a deep diving crank as far as any of the newer high tech reels. I will admit that the handles aren't quite as smooth and they are a bit heavier but them old reels are like me, old but still working. Oh, they are the original bearings.
Rodney

[bigjim5589]

Great read here & info! 

I've learned the hard way that a good cleaning & better oils can make a huge difference in how my reels cast as far as smoothness & distance.

I've changed factory installed bearings on some ABU round reels to abec 5, but can't say that single change made them cast any better. There might be better smoothness, but nothing I could truly measure. The cleaning & proper lubing, as Mike has said about grease or oil being in the wrong place, made more of a noticeable difference on reels I left the factory bearings in.

I did change some bushings to bearings, and that was an improvement IMO, but the bearing abec designation likely has little affect on it.

[Pro Reel]

Abec rating has almost nothing to do with spin speeds or smoothness. Abec ratings are for how fast a bearing can spin for a sustained period of time without developing heat from vibration.

However, simply saying that they all spin the same is untrue. There is something that has a huge impact on spin times, that's friction from contact surfaces. Not all bearings are the same, some have deep grooves some have shallow grooves, some have ribbon style cages and some have more open style cages. Some have metal cages, some have nylon cages. These are the things that affect a bearings spin times and ease of spin or startup. If a bearing has a cage and race design that has very little contact surfaces, then it will spin a lot easier and a lot longer than a bearing that has more contact surfaces.
The next component that affects spin is ball type. Ceramic balls are smoother than steel balls so they produce less friction and therefore a bearing with ceramic balls can spin easier or longer than an identical bearing with steel balls would. However, the main thing is still the design of the cage. I have some stainless bearings that spin a lot easier than some ceramics and I have some ceramics that spin easier than some stainless.

The problem is that the average person can't know if a bearing will spin easy or not, bearing distributors don't often advertise the internal design of the cage or the races. If you find a bearing that has shallow grooves and low contact cages, it will spin super easy regardless of it's abec rating.

The most important thing to remember for most people is that your stock bearings are most likely as good or better than you could ever need. The reel manufacturers do know about bearing design and they do source good quality bearings that will spin easy. If you have to use any braking at all, then your spool already spins easier than you need it to. making it spin even easier with a great bearings will just result in you needing to slow it down with more braking.

[hughesjasonk]

My preference has been FAG or timekin. I have found that they have been the sturdist

[Gwamba]

Not much to say after Mike and Pro Reel posted...

But when I was on a prominent manufacturers Pro Staff I learned some years ago that the number of bearings means little...its the roundness and friction less finish etc of the bearings and the design/fit of the cage...

For example... My friend is a Daiwa fan... his Lexa spin reel with only 3+1 bearings is as smooth as my new Lews Gold with 12 bearings... at approx. the same price point.

I'm 70 yrs old and fished and loved a LOT of older reels...but IMHO these new generation technology
reels are a whole world better tools than any of those old models...period! I'd like to see any old generation mid range price reel outcast a properly set up BB1...apples to apples...

[oldjim]

Mike I replaced stock BPS older green bearings with APEC 5 bearings, Wow tremendous difference, easier to cast, cast father. Had to tone down speed as auto cent settings would not stop backlash when I tried to make as long as possible cast. Went back to thicker lub, quandum red. Works great now much better than new.
Did origionally clean and replace bearing lub with thinner lub, helped, but nothing like it is now. FYI finely broke down and bought plyers to puch out pins.
Oldjim

[Mike Cork]

Pin pliers make it much easier 

Thanks for the follow up on your bearing experience. Since you maintain your own equipment, I can't say there was a lubricant issue with your bearings. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a quality issue as BPS contracts their reels out, and it's easy to get a bad run and not catch it until too late. I know the reels they sell now have quality bearings.

[Mike Bush]

Oh boy..the bearing debates. ABEC, SS and ceramics....

Im not even going to get into it all.

Clean them properly, and lube them with quality oil. Thats all Im gonna say.

[Dark3]

One of the benefits of aftermarket (suppose an OS 7) is the ease of removing the shield. This allows a much more thorough clean, (lube if desired) which WILL result in better inertia.

[Oldfart9999]

One of the benefits of aftermarket (suppose an OS 7) is the ease of removing the shield. This allows a much more thorough clean, (lube if desired) which WILL result in better inertia.

That's why I use an ultra sonic jewelry cleaner, you should see the crap that comes out of a "clean" reel.
Rodney

[Dam0007]

Cool info here, thanks!

All I know is when I replace bearings I get em from a RC car shop. $1 a piece

[oldjim]

I have an ultrasonic cleaner, what  kind   of liquid do you use?
oldjim

[LgMouthGambler]

I have an ultrasonic cleaner, what  kind   of liquid do you use?
oldjim

Acetone, lighter fluids seem to be the best to use.

[bigjim5589]

Acetone

You do have to watch the rubber dust seals in bearings as acetone can eat them up. If you're going to use it, remove the seals if possible.

I've cleaned bearings with acetone & learned this that hard way. 

I don't have an ultrasonic cleaner, but usually use automotive brake cleaner for cleaning bearings & some of them have acetone in them.

[LgMouthGambler]

You do have to watch the rubber dust seals in bearings as acetone can eat them up. If you're going to use it, remove the seals if possible.

I've cleaned bearings with acetone & learned this that hard way. 

I don't have an ultrasonic cleaner, but usually use automotive brake cleaner for cleaning bearings & some of them have acetone in them.

What bearings besides the boca os7's have rubber dust seals?

[bigjim5589]

Don't know specific bearings, all I know is I destroyed the dust seals with acetone. Whatever the material was, the acetone eat it up. Just an FYI, nothing more.

[Oldfart9999]

I have an ultrasonic cleaner, what  kind   of liquid do you use?
oldjim

Mineral spirits, you can use Simple Green, Ardent's cleaner, WD-40 works pretty well. I wouldn't use lighter fluid, it's highly flammable and acetone is highly flammable and can eat rubber or plastic shields. I gently blow the bearings dry with an air compressor, very gently.
Rodney