Reel Chronicles...

[Smallie_Stalker]

Hello, This maybe posted here somewhere.  I'm sorry if it is I'm a new guy if that counts as an excuse.  Are there any go to guys here on the forum that work on reels.  I was given a Shimano Citica LH that has never worked.  I think the guy bought it at Bargain Hunt.  I took it to a local shop here a couple years ago and he made some comment about "never seen a drag locked up so tight" or something.  I took it apart the other night and thought that I had fixed it until I put some line on the spool and once it had tension on it it would not engage or wind the line on.  Also I was proud of myself when I took it apart and put it back together until I noticed an extremely small pin and spring that was still on the table    At this point I give up but would like to have it fixed if it's possible.

Mike Cork and LgMouthGambler both work on reels. I would suggest you send a PM to either or both and explain the situation and see how things go from there. 

[LgMouthGambler]

Hello, This maybe posted here somewhere.  I'm sorry if it is I'm a new guy if that counts as an excuse.  Are there any go to guys here on the forum that work on reels.  I was given a Shimano Citica LH that has never worked.  I think the guy bought it at Bargain Hunt.  I took it to a local shop here a couple years ago and he made some comment about "never seen a drag locked up so tight" or something.  I took it apart the other night and thought that I had fixed it until I put some line on the spool and once it had tension on it it would not engage or wind the line on.  Also I was proud of myself when I took it apart and put it back together until I noticed an extremely small pin and spring that was still on the table    At this point I give up but would like to have it fixed if it's possible.

That tiny spring and pin on the table, is the clicker for the drag star. 

[aclawrence]

Ok thanks guys. I'll see if I can get the little pin in and see if it fixes the problem or not. If not I'll beg y'all for help lol.


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[LgMouthGambler]

Ok thanks guys. I'll see if I can get the little pin in and see if it fixes the problem or not. If not I'll beg y'all for help lol.


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Thats not gonna fix your problem. I was just pointing out what those parts are. Unless i have your reel in hand, I cant tell you what the problem is.

<")))>{

[Oldfart9999]

AC, you might be better off sending it Mike or Matt(LMG) and let them go through it.
Rodney

[FloridaFishinFool]

Our Shimano warranty rod and reel repair facility is sometimes overwhelmed with salty dogs!

I recently restored an old stradic back to full working condition. This reel had never been serviced since purchased new and the owner used it until it came to a stop and was completely frozen up due to saltwater.

Here is a look inside... I bring this one up because shortly it will be compared to a newer stradic in the same condition... only this older stradic took over 20 years to get to this point while the newer ci4 got to this same point in less than 2 years...

Green with corrosion:



Removing the spool shows accumulation of beach sand and seashells inside...





Removal of rotor and AR bearing shows one reason this reel is frozen solid. Bearings are rusted badly. More beach sand found deeper in reel... probably from owner rinsing reel after use in saltwater pushing sand and salt deeper into reel.



Main drive gear stuck in side plate due to rust and corrosion. Needed to be tapped out. Bearing is rusted badly. Notice more beach sand now inside body of reel. Also notice condition of main drive gear shows signs of salt corrosion where the salt touched the drive gear it bubbled up even between the gear teeth, but since the bearings were all rusted and would not spin, this gear was not spun with crud in between gears. Gears were OK.



Lots of sand found inside of reel



Had to dig in one of the stradic boxes to find an obsolete part that was broken



Even the pawl was corroded and barely moving in oscillation slider



Amazing this 20 plus year old AR bearing is NOT rusted and the saltwater had to go through this bearing to get to the rusted bearing underneath! This bearing needed a cleaning and it was reusable. The newer ci4 stradic not so lucky. Its AR bearing is less than 2 years old and is already rusted up.



All finished, cleaned up and back in perfect working condition shown with parts replaced...

[FloridaFishinFool]

Here is what the ci4 looks like in a very short time frame as compared to the older stradics made of better materials:



So today, based on what I know of the stradic reel line, I prefer FH and FI stradics, and one FG, but I focus on staying in the FH's and FI's almost exclusively these days just because these stradics are made of better materials and seem to hold up better over the long term.

[FloridaFishinFool]

I was recently asked to repair a Daiwa twitchin' bar reel... when the customer was at the front counter with it he showed everyone how the gears grinded by spinning the handle and causing the gears to grind loudly causing more damage inside to those gears... but obviously he wanted what was grinding replaced and this is what I found inside... a spring had broken and the part some how migrated up into the twitchin' bar gears as shown:



I replaced the ground up gear with a new gear:





All finished



And I noticed when I pulled a similar reel out of our used reel parts stock I found that there was a difference in construction of the magnet side plate I thought I would show here...



I gotta go overhaul 2 Shimano 6500 Baitrunners now...

And as a side note, we just finished up the huge plastics show in Orlando Florida. I had a blast meeting engineers from all over the world! I was surrounded by hundreds of some of the world's brightest engineers at this show. I met quite a few from Japan, Germany, and China. Made some new friends too as well as contacts in those countries for products.

The plastics show was loaded with new robots... We had to watch out for them or else. Due to our conversations I will be acquiring all new bearings for my reels that are not made of metal nor ceramics. Should be interesting!

Here are some of the booths nearby...







Oh, a funny story from the show floor... a couple of Chinese engineers came to our booth asking to borrow some tools. We said sure, but we did not have the type nor size of tools they needed.

But when one of the Chinese engineers asked for a magnetic level, he was handed a Harbor Freight cheapo made in China. As I handed it to him I said here is one from your country.

He looked it over and handed it back and said it was not accurate enough for what he needed and we all got a good laugh out of it.

So it is good enough to sell and send to USA, but not good enough for Chinese engineers to level out their plastics production machinery.

[redux]

How many extra bearings are you getting? I have some reels that might be interested in an experiment.

[FloridaFishinFool]

I got 4. I'll do one reel and you can use the other 2.

I'll experiment with a Curado 201iHG. If you use them try them in a reel you use for your heaviest use.

[SteelHorseCowboy]

That tiny spring and pin on the table, is the clicker for the drag star. 

Ok thanks guys. I'll see if I can get the little pin in and see if it fixes the problem or not. If not I'll beg y'all for help lol.


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Thats not gonna fix your problem. I was just pointing out what those parts are. Unless i have your reel in hand, I cant tell you what the problem is.

<")))>{

My pawn shop Caenan was missing the spring for the drag clicker when I bought it, so I just tossed the tiny pawl.
LMG's right, it makes no difference in operation, just removes the audible and tactile feedback when you adjust the drag.

Also, Lawrence, what kind of line are you trying to spool it with, and have you tightened the drag down? We've had anglers here on this forum with years of experience who have thought they'd broken their reels after mistakenly trying to spool braided line and forgetting to use a backing, AND after trying to spool their reels with the drag backed off almost completely.
These are understandable mistakes and can happen to anyone.

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[SteelHorseCowboy]

The plastics show was loaded with new robots... We had to watch out for them or else. Due to our conversations I will be acquiring all new bearings for my reels that are not made of metal nor ceramics. Should be interesting!

Wonder if they're the same or similar to the bushings in the Concept Z?

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[FloridaFishinFool]

Wonder if they're the same or similar to the bushings in the Concept Z?

No sir. They are not bushings. They are real ball bearings but made of new polymers hard enough to make the bearing balls and races. No metal to rust and oil. No ceramics to break and crack.

As far as I know this thread is the first online mentioning of this new bearing used in reels.

I already have some about to be installed in some curados. So at this point it is up in air how the new bearing will function or not.

[SteelHorseCowboy]

No sir. They are not bushings. They are real ball bearings but made of new polymers hard enough to make the bearing balls and races. No metal to rust and oil. No ceramics to break and crack.

As far as I know this thread is the first online mentioning of this new bearing used in reels.

I already have some about to be installed in some curados. So at this point it is up in air how the new bearing will function or not.

Okay, I'm interested. Let us know how much you like 'em and how much they cost!

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[FloridaFishinFool]

Okay, I'm interested. Let us know how much you like 'em and how much they cost!

Cost? Pennies per bearing.

This was one reason I made friends with Chinese engineers was to learn from them and learn access channels. I was told Alibaba is a U.S. channel but the Chinese have a domestic only channel where prices do not include export taxes and other costs.

[FloridaFishinFool]

How many of you have owned or used reels that the body or side plates warped and twisted over time?

1. Today the trend in reel construction is moving away from metal to cheaper materials.

2. We all know heat and cold causes expansion and contraction.

But did you ever consider chemical expansion and contraction?

This is a huge problem engineers have to contend with and attempt to factor into reel design.

Chemical compositions are not 100% stable.

So we now have reel bodies and frames and side plates and internal parts made out of chemical compositions that do expand and contract throwing off key tolerances inside of reels.

Even placing two different chemical compositions into contact with each other inside of reels is causing reactions. Engineers have to be aware of what materials expand and contract over time.

And then add in the chemicals people might use on such a reel that could dissolve and damage parts.

Just taking them apart and putting them back together with factory shimming may no longer be correct when time for service comes along.

So at warranty repair facilities this is taken into account when rebuilding a reel aiming for factory tolerances even with the changing materials.

Only warranty repair facilities are made aware of specific situations not found in non-warranty repair places.

And with the price of some of today's reels this is another solid reason to have reels serviced under manufacturer approval and direction.

[redux]

I got 4. I'll do one reel and you can use the other 2.

I'll experiment with a Curado 201iHG. If you use them try them in a reel you use for your heaviest use.

For me that would be a Curado 201 XG. Considering the reel you are looking to test is the same, what are your thoughts on a 71 XG? I know it is a lighter-duty reel, but I'm curious how the bearings perform for power-finesse applications. By that I mean using very light baits around heavy cover with a heavy rod. Not that I am punching into mats, but I am pitching and casting into pads and hydrilla. Does that make any sense?

[FloridaFishinFool]

Yes it does make sense Z. The weight of these bearings is on par with full ceramics, but the ceramics have a very low surface friction and spin easily. The glass bearing on polymer races may have more startup and running friction. It should operate similar to ceramics as far as lure weights go. I was more concerned with load bearing and durability.

I'll give you a set and you can put them in any of your reels.

[FloridaFishinFool]

Hey Z how about giving us a bearing report?

Does anyone remember these old Daiwa reels from the early to mid 1980's???

If anyone ever wondered where the T wing of today came from this reel would be it...

When you hit the cast button, both sides of the line guide pop to the outside so the spool can cast free from the line guide. When you start to reel, the gears pick up one side of the line guide and move it back to center, and once it returns to place, the gears pick up the other side of the line guide and move it into place before it starts going from side to side as any normal line guide would.

Did anyone actually use these reels???

The only reason I keep this one around is for conversation piece, but I also keep my black guide thread on this reel and only use it to feed out thread when I am wrapping guides on a rod.

[redux]

Bearings? Well...you may not like hearing some of this.

I can get that setup to throw weightless 4" tubes as far as I realistically need, but the bearings are so light and accelerate so fast they allow overruns at the end of the cast when there's wind. I pulled out all 4 pins, increased the tension, and increased the brakes to get rid of the wind/overrun issue. That reduced my distance to where it made no sense to use the bearings. I compensated for the lightness/speed of the bearings to get a consistent (but harder) cast and lost the easy casting and distance I want. Now, when I put on a 6" senko all that basically goes away and I can make the reel super loose which is great. For my main bait, these work great.

BUT, and it is a big butt, I can't get over the sound and the feel. The bast way I can explain it is it sounds like Fred Flintstone designed a Ferrari. It sounds like boulders are tumbling down a plastic bowling alley and they feel weak without actually being weak. I assume the races are causing both of these. It does not affect the performance of the bearing so the technology is going in the right direction. I just think the manufacturer may want to look at ceramic or stainless races to give customers an option to have the glass bearings without losing some of the weight that is critical in a casting reel.

Overall the glass/plastic are ok. They cast fine but they sound weird and take awhile to get dialed in. I'm not sure how the variables of my setup are contributing to getting that right - Loomis 6'6" heavy/moderate action, 40# PowerPro (I'm going to go up to 60# or so), Curado 201 XG. I'm too lazy to test every possible configuration with all my setups...12 rods, 5 reel types, various line sizes, countless baits, different hooks...nope...too lazy for that. But, if someone did have the time to go through all of that they could find the exact right configuration that is ideal for these bearings. However, I think a bearing for a mass market needs to work in any setup possible.

The full ceramics...died and went to heaven. These are flat out amazing and worth more than double the price of admission. I thought the hybrid (ceramic and stainless) bearings were amazing, but the full ceramics are the tits. These cast easy, amazingly far, and feel solid the entire length of the cast on both setups I have them on.

Falcon 7'2" Heavy fast action, Curado 71 XG, 40# PowerPro, 1/4 ounce tungsten weight, 5/0 heavy flipping hook

Falcon 7" Medium Heavy fast action, Curado 71 XG, #40 PowerPro, 1/8 ounce tungsten weight, 5/0 heavy flipping hook

These setups are almost the same because I'm looking to throw different size/weight baits into the same type of cover.

Hopefully I don't contradict myself in any of this. If so, I'll try to clarify.

[SteelHorseCowboy]

Hey Z how about giving us a bearing report?

Does anyone remember these old Daiwa reels from the early to mid 1980's???

If anyone ever wondered where the T wing of today came from this reel would be it...

When you hit the cast button, both sides of the line guide pop to the outside so the spool can cast free from the line guide. When you start to reel, the gears pick up one side of the line guide and move it back to center, and once it returns to place, the gears pick up the other side of the line guide and move it into place before it starts going from side to side as any normal line guide would.

Did anyone actually use these reels???

The only reason I keep this one around is for conversation piece, but I also keep my black guide thread on this reel and only use it to feed out thread when I am wrapping guides on a rod.

That's wild, very neat. And yes, they've been used. The funny little Daiwa that I had that drove me crazy with the squeaky handle knob before I figured it out and added a drop of oil, I found videos of people using the reel you pictured while trying to find some info on mine.

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[SteelHorseCowboy]

Redux, you think they'll smooth out after some more use? Plastics/polymers do have some give, and any imperfections in the races may eventually get smoothed out. If that happens though, I'd be worried they could loosen.

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[FloridaFishinFool]

SHC I was thinking the same thing. These bearings were new out of the box. No break in at all.

I would put them on a spin jig and break them in good and then try them. However, they should improve in performance once broken in good.

And Z is saying that right now as they are out of the box he can not crank down enough on them to prevent over runs. That says a lot right there.

The potential for these bearings is there.

Adding a little oil might help too.

Thanks z for trying them out!

[FloridaFishinFool]

Does anyone have a complete side plate for a Shimano Curado CU-201BSF ??

We just got in a reel missing the entire side plate. Not even going to touch this one until I get a side plate for it.

None on ebay right now. Not even a complete reel. These are fairly rare these days... and the customer dropped the side plate into a lake somewhere...

a nearly 30 year old reel still working... well it was until the side plate went overboard.

Bag it!

[FloridaFishinFool]

Well I just tried a regular curado B side plate and it fits perfectly but the color is different. The only way to fix this reel right now is either wait on the right side plate to magically appear, or go with a side plate of a different color.

We will have to let the customer make this decision...