Bass Fishing Forum

Read it on the web today:

EPA, and Corn Lobby Shaft Us and Outboard Makers Again:

> EPA finalized the 2014, 2015 and 2016 Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS) volume obligations on Monday. While the ruling falls short of the worst-case scenario, it still mandates the breaking of the "blend wall" in 2016....

> Due to this ruling, more ethanol, largely in the form of E15, will be required across the country's fuel supply. This remains problematic for boat owners and marine businesses as these higher blends of ethanol will damage engines, present grave safety concerns and void warranties.


Here's a link to a related story:

http://www.nmma.org/press/article/20249 (http://www.nmma.org/press/article/20249)

Makes me wonder if anyone at the EPA even owns a boat.  ~b~ ~b~ ~b~

Just a sad state of affairs.  I think I am having a WTF moment. 

Geeze.....  ~b~ on top of that, although gas prices have dropped. Ethanol gas free is the most expensive of fuels. At least around my area.  Explain that to me??

Quote from: Bassinlou on December 01, 2015, 04:24:38 PM
Geeze.....  ~b~ on top of that, although gas prices have dropped. Ethanol gas free is the most expensive of fuels. At least around my area.  Explain that to me??

Simple Lou, they don't want you to buy it, but if you do, , , your gonna pay.  Not worried at all about us my friend, it's like we don't vote, it's not our country anymore  :'(

Quote from: Lee Smith on December 01, 2015, 04:35:03 PM
Simple Lou, they don't want you to buy it, but if you do, , , your gonna pay.  Not worried at all about us my friend, it's like we don't vote, it's not our country anymore  :'(

Makes sense Lee....  :'(

EPA is a joke even within federal gov't. Their next victim is the gas grill. I got news for them. You don't want to get between Bubba and his grill. Bureaucrats are enforcing stupid laws to defend their jobs. Utter Lunacy. Pretty soon, fishing will be reduced to little paddle wheel duck boats propelled by your feet.

good evening,

the Iowa caucas's should get interesting real soon !!!!!......the corn lobby is very powerful.....just saying....

good luck,
PURA VIDA,
bluebonnet2

Who doesn't want more ground level ozone and major amounts of formaldehyde ? Cheap is the new stupid folks. Cheers. J.

It takes more fossil based fuel to make ethanol than it saves so that isn't the reason. It uses arable farm land to burn in a gas tank than to grow food crops. The production of ethanol from corn has increased the size of the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. What's not to like about the corn farmers getting rich?
Rodney

 Also read on the internet that some of the car manufactures think that much ethanol will void a cars warranty so how can any of this be good for anyone?  it is just like Lee stated in his post-the EPA and powers to be do not care one way or another about us.  I know the EPA has done some really descent things for this country in getting a lot of our rivers and lakes and air cleaned up but why does not a alarm go off in one of these idiots heads and they wake up and realize this is not a good thing for the American public??  Are all of them really  that far out of touch with what problems this will cause?  Guess so!  >:(

Quote from: Oldfart9999 on December 01, 2015, 06:03:06 PM
It takes more fossil based fuel to make ethanol than it saves so that isn't the reason. It uses arable farm land to burn in a gas tank than to grow food crops. The production of ethanol from corn has increased the size of the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. What's not to like about the corn farmers getting rich?
Rodney

You are dead on Rodney. Why use arable land to make fuel? The epa itself has said that it will diminish crop land to the point that the USA will eventually have to rely on foreign produce to eat while it produces fuel which it already has. It's non sense. I think it's all about short sighted subsidies and excesses this year but very short sighted. If you are a country that can't grow enough to feed itself then I think you are a country in trouble.

SMH. Its garbage. Good thing I dont use much fuel in my boat. I know the newer 4 strokes that are fuel injected dont have the problem with ethanol.  They are built like car engines. If you have a carburetor,  you better make sure you use ethanol free.

Quote from: Oldfart9999 on December 01, 2015, 06:03:06 PM
It takes more fossil based fuel to make ethanol than it saves so that isn't the reason. It uses arable farm land to burn in a gas tank than to grow food crops. The production of ethanol from corn has increased the size of the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico. What's not to like about the corn farmers getting rich?
Rodney

OF:  the other side of it is lost fuel economy.  takes me approximately 10-12% more fuel (with Ethanol blends) to go the same distance as with no Ethanol fuel.  I've looked and looked at the data...I can't see where they make it clear exactly HOW ethanol truly emits less gas to the atmosphere.

My question is this:  if a gallon of ethanol blend emits less greenhouse gas than a gallon of regular gasoline...but I have to burn 12% more of the ethanol to get where I'm going, how much did I really not just put into the atmosphere?

Or is it that 12% more gallons consumed just increased the tax revenues?   :shocking:

All while I watch my municipal transportation emitting some of the most egregious soot clouds around.

I personally think, uh oh, I'm thinking, , , it's about powerful lobbyist.  I dab in the beef industry, years ago a bunch of guys got together and put a strong lobbyist base together for 'Certified Black Angus' beef, they pushed that their beef was better, was tastier, was more marbled, blah blah blah.  They pushed for Govt subsidies and got them to 'help improve the stock', all the while, only 20% of 'certified black angus' was actually black angus beef, it was any and all that rated 'Choice' or better and that part was a  ~shhh in the industry. 

All the while, these guys where making tons of money and sending their special guys to Washington with big huge enormous checks. 

My point is, it has nothing to do with the environment, it has to do with the $$$  And if you play along, you get your position, if you don't, they will beat you down like a drum, it's just a fact.

Just my .02 on it all, call me crazy  :surrender:

It's all about the money, cloaked under doing what is good for the environment. The Act that was passed created the need for Non-Fossil Fuel to be used and sets the rate at which it must be used. Sounded good I'm sure when it was presented.

Now it is all about money changing hands. If you think it is the Corn Farmer that is making all the money your only fooling yourself.

One of my former Company Owners (who was on a first name basis with Geo. W) had a successful Trailer and Motorcoach Business. He sold them both and started a, guess what, Ethanol Plant. At least that what was the story we got.

Several years ago (2008-2010) I was listening to a Local Talk Show on AM Radio and a Truck Driver called in. He was on his way to an Ethanol Plant in the Mid-West with a load of corn....... he had just picked up at the docks in Miami. That's right way back then they were importing corn to send to the Ethanol Plants in the Mid-West.

More "laws" and "regulations" are being passed in this country due to Lobbyist and Congress men & women taking handouts than it seems for any other reason.

The AMA, American Motorcycle Association, has been fighting against the increase in Ethanol for years.

The only way to get things changed is when looking at our Congress FIRE THEM ALL. They no longer work for us the American People they work for the highest bidder. 

I have no idea why we can't adopt Brazil's model? They have everything at the pump. Price is going to dictate what people will use more of. Price of oil hasn't been about supply and demand for years so I don't know why they just can't start to sell ethanol blends and non ethanol in different octanes

Quote from: hughesjasonk on December 02, 2015, 06:33:13 AM
I have no idea why we can't adopt Brazil's model? They have everything at the pump. Price is going to dictate what people will use more of. Price of oil hasn't been about supply and demand for years so I don't know why they just can't start to sell ethanol blends and non ethanol in different octanes

They do this,,,, sort of back home in MN.  We have a corn processing plant in Marshal have had it well before I graduated high school back in 1988,,,,, our gas stations back home have both ethanol blends and non ethanol fuel at the pumps,,, with 85 octane ethanol free fuel being the same price as 89 octane with a 10% ethanol blend.  Would be nice if that same option would be available nation wide for our outboards  ~c~

Quote from: LgMouthGambler on December 01, 2015, 06:48:19 PM
SMH. Its garbage. Good thing I dont use much fuel in my boat. I know the newer 4 strokes that are fuel injected dont have the problem with ethanol.  They are built like car engines. If you have a carburetor,  you better make sure you use ethanol free.

I have a carbed motor, it was made for ethanol use, about the mid 90s the industry started making ethanol capable motors, the problem is going to E-85, the industry hasn't been able to make a motor to run that.
If the politicians were honest they would push the use of switch grass, it grows well in poor soil and an acre of it produces many times more ethanol than corn. They would also fund the research to build motors that were efficient and able to last for over 100,000 miles. Right now the powers that be(numb-nuts all), led by the Great Obama are figuring out how to slow down the economies of the world.
Rodney 

Quote from: Oldfart9999 on December 02, 2015, 01:04:29 PM
.... figuring out how to slow down the economies of the world.

that is the plan...

Makes me want to switch to a diesel truck. Though, they've come down so hard on those motors too it's not really worth it anymore.

Quote from: Polaris425 on December 02, 2015, 01:45:01 PM
Makes me want to switch to a diesel truck. Though, they've come down so hard on those motors too it's not really worth it anymore.

was thinking of goint that route... now with the VW thing...  guess the TDI work was not as 'effective' as promoted...perhaps explains why other auto makers didn't start working over the diesel extensions as hard?

one area I wonder about...emissions standards in the US vs europe.  how that factors in as well.
on fuel economy, it's a clear win.

Quote from: Polaris425 on December 02, 2015, 01:45:01 PM
Makes me want to switch to a diesel truck. Though, they've come down so hard on those motors too it's not really worth it anymore.

I was thinking about it too.  Since I don't put many miles on a vehicle anymore, I was using that to justify the higher fuel cost. Only problem with that is that I drive a truck until it is very dead and I'm pretty sure this one I have now will last longer than me.

Quote from: Polaris425 on December 02, 2015, 01:45:01 PM
Makes me want to switch to a diesel truck. Though, they've come down so hard on those motors too it's not really worth it anymore.

Get an eco-diesel  ;D    26mpg avg, 420# torque and they haven't been piled up in the shop  :shocking:  ;D  ~c~  ~c~

Quote from: Lee Smith on December 04, 2015, 09:13:27 AM
Get an eco-diesel  ;D    26mpg avg, 420# torque and they haven't been piled up in the shop  :shocking:  ;D  ~c~  ~c~

I want one SO bad but.... Can't afford a $500/mo truck note. lol.

Quote from: Lee Smith on December 04, 2015, 09:13:27 AM
Get an eco-diesel  ;D    26mpg avg, 420# torque and they haven't been piled up in the shop  :shocking:  ;D  ~c~  ~c~

Trying to get one for D as her next ride, If I could get a Durango set up that way we would come see you for it :-)

There's actually a used EcoD Ram at the local dealer. Loaded. 4x4. Crew cab. BLACK. And "woops"y. But would double my truck note.

There is a new Colorado/Canyon diesel, 2.8, 181 hp, 389 ftlb. 2 wheel drive 42 mph and mid 30s, 4x4, 39 and low 30s, 4x4 comes quad cab with a tow package and hitch, 7,700 lb towing capacity, touch over 33,000. If I could afford it I'd be looking at a loaded Nitro Z18 and the Colorado.
Rodney