I used to love using EWG (Extra Wide Gap) worm hooks and I've used them for many years. I always thought my hook up ratio was excellent and never really had any complaints. I finally started to pay very close attention and started to learn about hook dynamics. I experimented with a variety of hooks and was amazed at how many more fish that I was missing or losing on EWG Hooks compared to other types of hooks.
In the picture, the hook on the left is a Gammy EWG hook. As you can see the hook point is directly even with the line tie. When you set the hook, the likelihood of a poor hook up is increased because the point of the hook is directly inline with the line tie and there's not enough hook point sticking out to bite into a fish. Sure, you can catch plenty of fish but you may lose or miss a fair number as well.
The middle hook in the pick is a Gammy hybrid worm hooks. As you can see, the point of the hook sticks out above the line tie giving the hook more bite.
The hook on the right is a Gammy offset round bend hook. This type of hook has the hook point sticking out the most above the line tie causing the most bite.
After experimenting for over a year with different styles of hooks, I no longer use EWG Hooks and my hook up and land ratio is much better. I also have interviewed several pros for my articles and every pro that I asked about EWG Hooks said that they no longer use them for the reason that the line tie and angle of the hook point does not provide a good enough angle for proper bite of the hook point.
What do you guys think?
For my thick baits, I'm now using the hybrid worm hooks and for thinner baits and stick Worms, I'm now using the offset round bend. Good bye EWGs! 😉
Good info
A bad day of fishing is better than a good day at work.
not gonna argue with folks that know a hell of a lot more about this stuff than i do.
will share some thoughts, experiences I do have and continue to have.
Hello, my name is Coldfront and I love EWG hooks...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ABLVV87wtQ78H6m3gpkYSURNjwDbq_y89rsVS0iRFoqILs8mGwpI86qoIIs1sHsJQ_s2JZySOLS_T3D01n7Ie7N5xU7iT94T1qVIt5jgvN4AIE524xDPKW3R3MX7LW8sKQ68Z0ogDbddUMOsEJjKK5I_9oPS=w1030-h927-s-no?authuser=0)
two EWG hooks I have used and LOVE. the Mustad Megalite and the Mustad Megabite.
that old megalite hook is and still remains one of my all time favorites. can't get 'em anymore 'cause KVD ruined them and pushed the 'pin grip' nonsense...
but the key design features? that 'gap' where the point is elevated about an 1/8 of an inch or so above the line tie, shank. AND that greater than 90° bend that helps hold the bait on the hook and keep it from sliding down. Sure, a guy really needed to pay attention and match hook sizes with baits, but that's always been the case.
now, that megabite hook? the point is not 'above' the plane of the line tie. in fact, it seems to point a bit 'inward'. popular opinion would be that this hook sure ought to have a HORRIBLE hook up ratio.
for me? quite the opposite. I don't loose fish on these hooks. carolina rigging, texas rigging, flipping, pitching (long distance hook sets and close quarters combat)... they just flat out work.
(the VMC hooks also have this line tie/hook point 'offset gap': prefer the heavy guage hooks over the light wire most situations).
I don't and have NOT lost fish on these hooks.
we can talk about this angle, that angle, what theoretically ought to be better, work better... but frankly, fish bite these things and I absolutely PIN 'em... they stay hooked too as long as the points haven't rolled or are dull...
I have tried and tried and TRIED to find hooks that work better. haven't been successful yet. the VMC EWG is as close as I've come so far.
just bought a bunch of the mustad megabite 5/0 hooks... use them for fishing horny toads... and again: fish flat out get stuck.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ABLVV87qffbW2y-rrcplLyvusrMqK6srJiLAR1tG76C8z5il4_iWBGlAlGMA-2TzohWRNTG7WdtT6_4ab2V4SpNrYYQC0atUcN496mGB1lTK92XbOdXMKWUIbwYX1Jsfu5iV3W7SNx4T_SctAndpp-zis6-5=w1859-h927-s-no?authuser=0)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ABLVV85atEA_1JOFIZQ1TFeEGkJDgHwZQsUfRoG5UyOQ8hTdMeGaDjxNI6TEk1qg-b2vbj05tfx8u-JSPHgPHNZou5Xbp3IewM-v1-l6AHwkHHJccBtDSTIxlMQdnvUk53LnYhw_YIY-y8ZEn5uhuyIo6R0i=w1308-h927-s-no?authuser=0)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ABLVV84rlMFzWgQVmZAr61XiFbg_e7Np3x-lfC9WjxGSRB9kUT_9CXOzoMjldcDj2MxoKpAC0-0oOEv4oPurMdkCqwoF3wVWeJAmNfofGvN6sSq0Ya26K04V_DzWiyg9YeGefTPzYB7d7zYF3tZI5V2ixHbK=w1011-h927-s-no?authuser=0)
never really sure why some folks can't keep Chevy trucks out of the shop. my family couldn't keep the fords 'on the road'. neither of those 'venerated' brands (also including the dodge trucks) can hold a candle to the reliability, durability of my tundra (2006, 2018).
suspect which hook(s) work for a person might also have a little to do with things like preferred rod action, power, hook sets and just the individual angler...
i know what works for me. have tried and tried and TRIED to find other, better options. read all the stuff... but to be completely fair: reading what a bunch of anglers 'say' needs to be taken with a grain of salt. just look at how they use the word 'grass' to describe the entire range of aquatic vegetation (submergent, emergent)...
lo
I will be following this thread closely. Should be a good one!
I use those same VMC hooks with the protective resin in the eye. I've lost fish due to the line getting chewed up by the gap in the eye.
My hook ups are good and I don't lose any fish that hits my fluke. I want the hook to be directly in line with eye, so my fluke dances around and I can textpose the hook into the back of the fluke making it completely weedless...
I'm an EWG user. I had the opposite experience with offset hooksets. Missed fish like crazy.
That being said, this topic makes for great discussions. Over the years, I found other factors are at play that effect hook up ratio, and the hook used is the innocent bystander caught in the cross fire.
I will also say that certain hooks, either offset or ewg hooks, are being used in wrong applications, thus causing poor hook up ratios.
Lou, you mentioned that you went 4 for 7 in an earlier post with an EWG stick worm fished deep in the canals. I wonder if a different type of hook would have made a difference?
What got me thinking about this subject was when I was interviewing Kyle Welcher about hooks and he brought it up. He said many people don't realize how many fish they lose or miss with a hook. Kyle said he's gone fishing with buddies who swear by their hookup ratio with EWG hooks and they miss or lose a bunch of fish when they fished together with him.
I thought I rarely lost or missed fish too on EWGs. I've bet I've caught several thousand fish on EWGs over the years and loved them.. until I started paying close attention. I was missing fish and never realized it.
Somewhere here on UB is a post I made years ago about why I abandoned EWGs and went back to using straight shank hooks. My hook to land ratio improved noticeably after I made the switch and they are still my personal preference in hooks at this point.
The only two exceptions for me are when I'm fishing a thick bodied swimbait (here I have gone back to a weighted EWG), and when I'm fishing the small 3 inch Sluggos. With the baby Sluggos I use the hooks that come with them which are like the 3rd one in your picture.
I only use them because they are very light wire and I haven't been able to find a straight shank with a light enough wire to not affect the action of the little Sluggo.
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There is a big you tuber that has a video I will post below. I Prefer a straight shank hook when possible but for thick baits like senco and buzzfrogs I use the EWG. Oh and also for the speed worm. I have just started looking into this some and playing with worm hooks more. So I am undecided but never really had issue with EWG's. Paying more attention.
https://youtu.be/75pkwEV8whQ?si=mnL-GYe65B6y-tfM (https://youtu.be/75pkwEV8whQ?si=mnL-GYe65B6y-tfM)
Hmmm, I went 3 for 4 on an offset this evening.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240130/6a874c8897993684cf809be9eae33b57.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240130/02c166de9ccf13cf7e159e2d7fe75fa8.jpg)
Quote from: FlatsNBay on January 29, 2024, 08:55:47 AMI used to love using EWG (Extra Wide Gap) worm hooks and I've used them for many years. I always thought my hook up ratio was excellent and never really had any complaints. I finally started to pay very close attention and started to learn about hook dynamics. I experimented with a variety of hooks and was amazed at how many more fish that I was missing or losing on EWG Hooks compared to other types of hooks.
In the picture, the hook on the left is a Gammy EWG hook. As you can see the hook point is directly even with the line tie. When you set the hook, the likelihood of a poor hook up is increased because the point of the hook is directly inline with the line tie and there's not enough hook point sticking out to bite into a fish. Sure, you can catch plenty of fish but you may lose or miss a fair number as well.
The middle hook in the pick is a Gammy hybrid worm hooks. As you can see, the point of the hook sticks out above the line tie giving the hook more bite.
The hook on the right is a Gammy offset round bend hook. This type of hook has the hook point sticking out the most above the line tie causing the most bite.
After experimenting for over a year with different styles of hooks, I no longer use EWG Hooks and my hook up and land ratio is much better. I also have interviewed several pros for my articles and every pro that I asked about EWG Hooks said that they no longer use them for the reason that the line tie and angle of the hook point does not provide a good enough angle for proper bite of the hook point.
What do you guys think?
I've always used the style in the middle. Plus, having the point a little higher than the line tie gives a slight "kink" to my stick baits & worms. This allows for a slight "wobble" of the bait, over the bland straight body.
Sent from undisclosed location. -Tiller Mafia
I did a video on this subject last year. Nobody watched it.
After seeing Randy and all the other studs (Scott Martin, etc.) brag on those straight-shank hooks I thought, "what the heck" and decided to do some experimenting.
Bottom line- I thought they sucked. I lost so many bass, especially big bass, on them. I gave it the whole summer, not just a trip or two.
Interesting enough, when I DID have them hooked, they were just flat SKULLED. I mean thru the BONE.
So I'm the odd man out. Me and Kurt anyway. Maybe it's just what I'm used to, I don't know. But I'm a huge believer in whatever works for you. Peace.
Dale
Quote from: Capt. BassinLou on January 30, 2024, 05:01:26 PMHmmm, I went 3 for 4 on an offset this evening.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240130/6a874c8897993684cf809be9eae33b57.jpg)
Lou, I religiously rig these hooks tex-posed. can be frustrating in heavy cover at times, as baits wear a bit. but maybe part of my success is in the texposed rigging?
Quote from: coldfront on February 01, 2024, 09:56:11 AMQuote from: Capt. BassinLou on January 30, 2024, 05:01:26 PMHmmm, I went 3 for 4 on an offset this evening.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240130/6a874c8897993684cf809be9eae33b57.jpg)
Lou, I religiously rig these hooks tex-posed. can be frustrating in heavy cover at times, as baits wear a bit. but maybe part of my success is in the texposed rigging?
That makes sense, but tex posed is not recommended where I fish. ;) My waters have a lot limestone, submerged vegetation, when I fish the Everglades and "man-made" structure (aka: garbage) when I fish the urban canals. Any little bit of hook exposure can mean a lost hook.
Besides, my hook point is just about peeking through the other side of the plastic. 100% hookup ratio is very tough odds when it comes to fishing. IMHO.
thinking back over past few years, the only times I've had issues with hook sets?
1. rolled hook points. tough to see them, but can be felt. lost some monster smallies before I figured that out.
2. danged fish only grabbing the tails of the baits. can't sink a hook that never was 'in the mouth'.
;D
Reviewing over my notes when I interviewed Kyle Welcher about this subject, he said something that I thought was interesting. If a fish takes your bait and then moves left or right, an EWG hook can bite (and hook) a fish because there is something in their mouth to hook into based on the angle of a fish moving left or right. When a fish is facing straight at you after eating your bait, the EWG hook has very little to nothing to bite into (based on there not being enough gap between the hook point and eye of the hook) resulting in a missed or lost fish. I hope that I explained it correctly. The article was published recently in Bass Angler Magazine with his exact comments and thoughts.
I tried EWG hooks using soft plastic baits over the years. I use the EWG hooks on two baits. The 4 inch tube and the SLUGGO. I feel I need the extra space to allow a good hookset. I never lose a bass on an EWG tube hook. Nada, Never, ain't gonna happen. The SLUGGO can lose a bass on any hook. I think the SLUGGO, while slow to fish, is among the baits with the best natural fall you can use.
Wizard
The only EWG style I use anymore is the Gammy hybrid. I came across the Hyabusa offset round bend a couple of years ago and I've been really pleased.
Unless I'm fishing really thick cover I use thin light wire EWG hooks. I often target deep ledges and depth changes close to cover. I fish deep and slow especially in the colder weather.
The thin wire hooks make a big difference with my catch rate, and I seldom have a problem sticking fish once they make an initial bite. Thin wire hooks, and 12 to 15 floro line are my trusted tech. I will also bend the hook a little more open, using my pliers. Never had a big fish open quality hooks, but I have had hooks opened on snags. I also use as little weight as is necessary to get the job done at that moment. Less weight gives more movement with subtle rod tip movements.
The only time I use heavy wire hooks is when Im targeting deep pad fields, real thick cover, or flipping and pitching, using heavy braid. That is just a different story, and I never use EWG hooks for that.
Thin wire hooks make a difference in sticking bass of all sizes.
Quote from: big g on February 11, 2024, 03:54:21 PMUnless I'm fishing really thick cover I use thin light wire EWG hooks. I often target deep ledges and depth changes close to cover. I fish deep and slow especially in the colder weather.
The thin wire hooks make a big difference with my catch rate, and I seldom have a problem sticking fish once they make an initial bite. Thin wire hooks, and 12 to 15 floro line are my trusted tech. I will also bend the hook a little more open, using my pliers. Never had a big fish open quality hooks, but I have had hooks opened on snags. I also use as little weight as is necessary to get the job done at that moment. Less weight gives more movement with subtle rod tip movements.
The only time I use heavy wire hooks is when Im targeting deep pad fields, real thick cover, or flipping and pitching, using heavy braid. That is just a different story, and I never use EWG hooks for that.
Thin wire hooks make a difference in sticking bass of all sizes.
I agree with you on the thin wire hooks. They get a bad rep with some anglers but I will always have some for the right situations.
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I like the ease of rigging a straight worm / soft plastic with an EWG but because the hook point is in line with the hook eye - you lose a fair amount of fish .The offset worm hook is more difficult to rig straight - but with the hook point higher than the hook eye - your hook up ratio is better ... So , what is the answer ? The Mike McClelland designed Gamakatsu G-Finesse Hybrid Hook : Easy to rig EWG type design , sticky sharp and the hook point is above the hook eye - best of all worlds ! If you are not using the G-Finesse Hybrid Hook - you need to give this hook a serious look ! The G-Finesse Hybrid hook and straight shank hooks (for flipping) are about all you need for bass soft plastics!
I have a lot of variations.
the "in-line" type seem to snag a lot less often. you know when you set the hook on a fish and you seem to bury it tinpot a tree branch? I hate that.
anyways, I love the Owner Haymaker hook. it hooks fish big time, but it is much snaggier.
Quote from: chrisD46 on February 12, 2024, 09:16:39 AMI like the ease of rigging a straight worm / soft plastic with an EWG but because the hook point is in line with the hook eye - you lose a fair amount of fish .The offset worm hook is more difficult to rig straight - but with the hook point higher than the hook eye - your hook up ratio is better ... So , what is the answer ? The Mike McClelland designed Gamakatsu G-Finesse Hybrid Hook : Easy to rig EWG type design , sticky sharp and the hook point is above the hook eye - best of all worlds ! If you are not using the G-Finesse Hybrid Hook - you need to give this hook a serious look ! The G-Finesse Hybrid hook and straight shank hooks (for flipping) are about all you need for bass soft plastics!
This may sound like a weird question, but have you had any problems with losing hooks off your line?
Reason I ask that is my son and I had a bad experience with the G-Finesse stinger hooks. Not sure if that relates to these or not, but he lost at least three good fish in a tournament because (as best as I can figure) the line (15 lb PowerPro) slipped out of the hook eye where the wire bends around to meet the shank. Maybe a bad batch with a bigger gap at the junction than normal? Maybe too thin of a line for those nano-coated hooks? Not sure, but he would lose the fish hook and all. I thought he broke off the first time, but his palomar knot was still intact at the end of the line with no break in the line whatsoever. Happened a couple more times before he switched to a different hook. No more problems after that. Kind of weird, and honestly still has me scratching my head.
Sounds like you found the problem. I always check my hooks every couple of casts, and if the knot is not in the middle of the eye I center it. Never leave the knot off to the side of the eye. Sounds like a problem with quality control of the hooks. Sure glad you changed hooks. :-*
Just my 2c worth
First time ever tried soft plastic flukes rigged weedless due to weeds and lily pads are 90% of the cover that holds bass in my lakes. For 35 previous years fished strictly soft plastic worms and used 100% Offset worm hooks.
But the package the flukes came in suggested 3/0 EWG worm hooks so that's what I used. Never used a EWG before had no idea they were a hook prior to this year.
My point being I had no preconceived prejudices against EWG worm hooks.
Well my 5 and 5.25" soft plastic flukes rigged weedless and worked as a soft plastic jerkbait was utterly murdering the bass in my lakes. Talking I was getting at least 10-15 hard hits in a 4-5 hour morning or evening outing. Only problem I was only hooking up about 60-65% of my hooksets and 30-35% of my hooked bass were getting off. Was very careful once I sensed a hit to fast as I could reel down to remove all slack and do a smooth sweeping hookset. Was also using 20lb braid with a swivel to co-poloymer so line stretch was not a contributing issue. But still was missing 35-40% of fish and losing 30-35% of my hooked bass. I couldn't help but notice how often my fluke was sliding down the shank and balling up in the bent area of the hook and new it was not a coincidence it happened every time I failed to get a good hook set or a bass got off. I went back to standard offset worm hooks but my hookset percentage did increase to about 70% but I felt that was still unacceptably low.
I wasn't sure what to do so I went to another bass forum and asked what was an acceptable hookup percentage listed what baits I was using what hooks and size hooks. Guys there suggested I ditch the standard EWG and OS hooks and try either or both Owner Twist Lock lite hooks or Gamakatsu Superline Twist lock hooks and upsize from 3/0-4/0
Holly crayolas what a difference. My hookup percentage went from 65-70% to 85-90% and less than 10% of the bass I hooked now get off and my fluke never balls up on the hook. Now if I miss more than 10% of fish hits it's because I have my head up younowhere not on detecting bites.
My point being I had no preconceived prejudices against EWG worm hooks to cloud my judgement of them. After I went to the twist lock hooks, I went on line looking up soft plastic hook evaluations and I was astonished how many YT bass fishing channels advise against using STANDARD EWG worm hooks. Many recommended various hybrid EWG but the vast overwhelming majority recommended against using standard EWG worm hooks.
Now I know and realize A LOT of guys will post stellar results using standard EWG hooks and I have no reason whatsoever to doubt what they say as true. I personally will not be among their ranks.
Based ONLY on my admittedly limited but very quiet negative results I will not be using a EWG worm hook especially when the twist locks I use have a 85-90% hookup rate and hold my fluke extremely well and much much better than either a EWG or OS worm hooks.
Just my experienced based .2c worth.
Felt I should add I wonder if going to a 4/0 VS a 3/0 had a more significant impact than going from an OS hook to a Screw lock hook.
I like EWG hooks especially with regular plastics. I use quality thin wire hooks, and will bend open the hook a little, to get an easy penetration. When fishing heavy cover or using braid I will use standard EWG hooks and still bend open a little using plyers. Have never had a problem losing fish using these techniques. Have been using these hooks for over 30 years.