Coloring braid with a Black marker discussion.

[SteveTX]

Another topic posted recently got me to thinking I should make a thread on this topic alone. I've always wondered about this. Its very backwards for me so I don't do it but I know some do. I am always open to another great way to get bit so lets discuss this. I'll start with my concerns that currently keep me from coloring my braid.

First one of the fishing past times said is to use dark or bight colors on your lures when fishing water that wasn't clear. Well if you think about it black is a color I use often in my muddy waters on my jigs etc so the fish can see the silhouette. So if your trying to hide your line from fish would it not be better to go with a more neutral color marker? I mean looking in the water I really don't see absolute black to much if at all. But everyone specifically says Black when they talk about this.

Second confusing thing is have you ever smelled a Sharpie? It has a very strong chemical odor. With thousands of bait manufacturers trying to lure anglers in to buy scent or sell sent on their baits I have never seen one selling Magic Marker or Sharpie scent. Now if your dragging 2 or 3 feet of marker filled scented line in front of every where your bait goes is this a deterrent or a attractant?

On this third point is if you do this where/when/how did you become a fan of it?

Like I said I'm interested in learning stuff that helps get bit. I just struggle with this topic is it a help or a hindrance.

[Capt. BassinLou]

I used a sharpie on braid once to see what all the talk was about. Zero change, caught fish regardless, and the sharpie washes off.

[Fun4me]

I tried it and came to the conclusion that I think coloring braid black with a sharpie is a wives tail. I can't see any advantage to having solid black line vs. green, brown, etc. Black isn't generally a "blend In " color in lakes, ponds, etc. Trying to match the water color, or ground/vegetation color might have a slight advantage, but even then I think it's mostly a waste of time. JMO of course.

[Pat Dilling]

I usually do  not color my braided line until it starts fading.  At that point I use a green marker, not black.  And I do not color it solid.  I will break up the color with gaps of 1/4" up to an inch.  If you look at camouflage, part of what makes it work is breaking up solid shapes.  I started doing this primarily when fishing frogs on the advice of Bobby Barack, one of the pioneers and premier frog fishermen on the West Coast.  I have since done it with flipping too.  I can't say definitively that I get more bites after camouflaging my line, but it certainly has not hurt and it costs very little to do it.  I think in areas where there is a lot of fishing pressure and fish have become line shy that it may give you an edge, just like going to lighter line in clear water.

[Deadeye]

When the braid starts to color fade I'll do about 3-4 ft with a sharpie marker.

Does it help or hurt? Don't really know.

I do know that it was started on the Pro Tours so it may have some actual effect.


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[BassmanRudy]

I don't know if the fish can see it or not but I do know that I CAN'T see the line once blackened! So weird to flip out see the green usually just fine but the black is gone! Also I use yellow line and the black helps with that really well too.

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[RangerAndBass]

I blacken the last 18" of my heavy punching line as I use yellow 65lb braid. The yellow helps me see if somebody grabs it while slack. The black is so its not yellow near the bait. It also helps me know that the boat has got to the bottom.
If I'm in cleaner water, ie not using 1-2oz weights to get thru mats I tie on a floro leader. Pretty sure the fish can't see it.
Is either necessary? I don't know but I do know I fish better if I have confidence in what I am throwing.

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[BassmanRudy]

"Is either necessary? I don't know but I do know I fish better if I have confidence in what I am throwing."

^^^ Amen!! Confidence is the key!



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[Oldfart9999]

I quit using leaders on anything except dropshot because I like stretch to help fight the fish and braid in low tests doesn't work well with Bakudan lie holders. I've used magic markers on braid, mostly a confidence thing, markers come in different colors.
Rodney

[oldjim]

I have seen Roland Marton recommend coloring 12-18 in of braid with a black marker, saying he does it all the time!
oldjim

[SteveTX]

Isn't it very odd that with the thousands of posts, videos, or articles etc on this subject to my knowledge this is the first thread to ever mention any other color marker except Black. You would think somewhere someone would have mentioned Green markers like in this thread.

Also this thread included not one person has even commented on the harsh chemical smell of a marker. I find that pretty amazing considering so many people are believers in scent. Bait companies almost all have some scent in their plastics not to mention all the other scent products. I've even heard of people not wanting to touch their bait for fear of it not smelling natural. Really surprising not one mention of it so far.

Keep the responses coming. Maybe someone will find this thread useful.  Or just entertaining. 

[Deadeye]

Well another benefit that I've found is it helps me know how deep it is under that mat or grass or around those reeds.

Since I always do about the same length (about an arms reach) the I know IF the Black goes all the way under it's at least 3 ft.

But I also use it when Swimming a Worm. There it tells me that my bait is almost back to me.

Never noticed any smell.

[Pferox]

Actually, the smell is why I have never tried it.  Don't know if all markers smell like that, but man those sharpies I use stink.

I've mentioned this mentioned this before, but didn't get a response on other threads, so just gave up on mentioning it.

[SteveTX]

Deadeye you should get your nose checked.   <Im kidding>

No seriously all the markers I have had smell pretty rank if you stick your nose near it. I guess it is like everything else. What ever the angler thinks. Some think fish cant smell, some think they can smell a little, some think they smell real good.

I don't think it would matter at all on a pitching or punching deal. Any type of reaction bite. Those fish I can catch with a set of flashing Christmas lights as fishing line. In my opinion the line is 100% irrelevant in these situations from my experience. But when your talking about soaking a worm or some other slow moving bait that the fish is just inspecting to determine if its food or trash floating along I think marker chemicals could easily give the wrong signal.

[bigjim5589]

This topic comes up often on fly fishing forums, since fly lines are much larger diameter than lines used for other fishing, and particularly with braid. Fly fishing uses a leader, which is the connection between the line and fly, as the fly can be very small and no way the fly line could fit through the eye of the hook. The late Lefty Kreh, a well known fly fishing personality, once said the only reason a fly line might spook fish, is due to the slap on the water over them during the cast, or possibly the shadow that the line may have on the water, since fish are aware of threats from above such as birds. That discussion was about shallow stream fishing, but it applies to any water.

For fly fishing, I've used smoke, clear, hi vis yellow, and green colored mono line for the leader, and have never seen any difference as far as catching fish. Leaders that I typically use are 8' to 9' long, about the rod length, but often the fly line itself passes over fish or near them as a retrieve is made. IMO, if that doesn't spook them, I don't see lines used for lures as being a problem. They know the line is there. The difference between a fly line sliding across the water or through it with sinking line, and the line slapping the water on a cast is a huge difference as one may alarm the fish, but the other doesn't.

This relates to the fishing with braid as the bass know when anything enters their world. They can detect it, due to the vibration even when they can't see it, just as they can detect a lure moving thru the water. And that's the point, they know it's there, that something is there, but it's not something that alarms them.

I use hi vis yellow braid now and tie direct. I've not seen that it has a negative affect. A lure splashing nearby may alarm or spook a bass, but the line moving through the water will not. Trolling is done for many fish species and a lot of line can pass by these fish, before they see the lure. Again, they can detect that it's there, but even though it's long and possibly visible, it's not something that poses a threat, just as I mentioned with the much larger diameter fly line.

If any of these lines was creating an issue with spooking fish, or alarming them, it's highly probable that we would catch very few fish.

To the black coloring of line, or any color, bass can detect a black color lure in the dark, and zone in on it. Why would anyone believe that coloring a line black would make it invisible or less visible? It won't, but the fish don't pay attention to it anyway. The size of a line is not a threat to them. If it was, any long thin object in their environment would be a threat, would it not?

I and many other folks make flies & lures and use various substances that have detectible odors. This very topic, which also comes up often on fly tying forums, was just asked about by a new fly tyer. He was asking about using finger nail polish for coating the thread wraps, and was concerned about the scent. That smell, being from the solvent used, is very much like the smell in permanent markers. I've used nail polish for many years as a thread coating on flies & jigs, and again, have never seen any ill affects. However, there are also many other possible substances that could be of equal concern. With fly or jig tying, dyes and preservatives might have a scent, even if we can't detect them since they're chemicals. We each have our own scent, and oils from our skin, does get on everything we touch, including our lures, so is that ever a problem? Plastic baits & silicone skirts are materials that have a petroleum base, so is that a problem? Paints or dyes, and clear coatings used on lures may also have a scent since they usually have some type of solvents or chemicals associated with them. Yet, many, many anglers still catch fish on them.

Here again, it's the matter of whether these fish we chase, can associate any of this as a threat to them, and IMO, they do not.

I used to do a lot of fur trapping and I read several books, written by some of the well known old time trappers. They all had information in them that said things like "leave no scent, or no disturbance". I believed that, but learned it was impossible. If you enter an area, you leave some scent or disturbance. The animals I was targeting, have a much higher sense of smell than we do, and they know I was there. So, I also learned to use that to fool them to believe I was not a threat. They encounter people in their travels and no way around that. This also applies to fishing. We cannot fool them into not knowing that line is there, and often that we are there, so the best we can do is use it to our advantage.

Many times folks make statements such as, "I could see the bass, and couldn't get it to bite, because it could see my line". Well, perhaps they could see the angler, and his movements, which is more probable to be interpreted as a threat and not the line. Most of this should be logical, but people tend to put blame on what they use.

Confidence has been mentioned here and that certainly plays a huge role in fishing success. If you feel you need to color the line, or use a specific type of line, then do it. it's as easy as that. I see no need to do that and add another possible problem. 

[RangerAndBass]

Have you people actually smelt the line after putting marker on it?
No I don't like the smell of the marker but I can't believe that smell is being transfered to the line in any measurable quantity.
Those who said black should be visible underwater make a good point, but what colour isn't? I can't in confidence use yellow, red, lime green, etc, line right to the bait, so I colour or add a leader.
And yes I have enjoyed this read for entertainment if nothing else

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[SteveTX]

Have you people actually smelt the line after putting marker on it?
No I don't like the smell of the marker but I can't believe that smell is being transfered to the line in any measurable quantity.
Those who said black should be visible underwater make a good point, but what colour isn't? I can't in confidence use yellow, red, lime green, etc, line right to the bait, so I colour or add a leader.
And yes I have enjoyed this read for entertainment if nothing else

I think the marker is a small amount of smell and chemicals for a human. But again for a fish just how sensitive is his smell or detection of foul chemicals? Generally speaking wildlife has a way higher sense of things. Just how much bleeding of the chemical from the marker is going on when soaking a worm?

Excellent points bigjim5589. Everything man made has some scent whether we smell it or not doesn't mean the wildlife cant.

[Smallie_Stalker]

A couple of companies sell markers made specifically for braid that supposedly don't have a discernable odor. I tried the green and black ones from Spike-It.

Once.   

While I didn't really notice a smell I also didn't notice any increase or decrease in my catch ratio. I'm good with hi-vis braid. I think I'll just stick with that. 

[bigjim5589]

One other thing not mentioned so far, that an odor in air, and in water may be detected differently. I've read that, in order for fish to detect an odor or taste a substance, the substance would need to be soluble in water, so will mix with water. Many substances, oils for example, will not mix with water, so it's very possible they can't be detected at all. Not something that I can prove or disprove, just based on what I've read.

I had mentioned about animals having a better developed sense of smell, but even that may not apply to all animals in the same way particularly when comparing animals that live in water with us or other animals that live in air.

So, even though we can detect these odors, may not mean these fish can at all. We can't detect the smell of propane gas as an example, so a substance is added to it that we can smell. This might be the same with how fish might smell something in water, it would have to be capable of mixing with the water before they can detect it.

I don't put a lot of stock in most scents that I've tried for this reason as many are an oily substance.

[Pferox]

Now for me, menhaden oil, cod oil, and oily fish are my best attractants.  I use them in my chum mixes for drawing bait fish to catch either by cast net or Sibiki rig.  I also use it to help draw predators, and it works quite well.

The oil doesn't mix with the water, true, but it still calls in fish from great distances. It also repels fish from a location when other oils, like motor oil, or crude oil gets into the water.

[Oldfart9999]

The odor from a marker is from the solvents used to keep the ink liquid, it evaporates away starting as you apply it leaving a dry color behind. I never thought it was relevant discussion.
Rodney

[jwkelley51]

Thanks for the post...I've been wondering about all that myself.

[merc1997]

i use hi-vis yellow in gin clear water.  so, i will flip flop the fish see your line bull.  if the fish are paying attention to the line, then all they have to do is follow that hi-vis yellow right to my lure  and BAM!, they bite your lure.

i just got back from wyoming and filmed a tv show.  the so called expert of the show started right off that i would not catch anything using my yellow line in their clear water, and that he had a rod with floro i could use.  lets see, 15 to nothing later, i asked him how he was getting along with his no-vis floro.  so, if floro is the thing to use because the bass can not see it, i have yet to have anyone prove it to me.

use whatever line you think will do the job for you.  for me, braid does the best job for me with any type of lure.  please understand, i grew up using dacron braid and when i switch to clear blue stren i still caught just a many bass, but bites were harder to detect and took a long time to learn how to deal with all the stretch.  once i went back to braid i've never went back to mono or floro.

bo

[SHC286]

Keep the responses coming. Maybe someone will find this thread useful.  Or just entertaining. 

I'm finding it useful! Or at least educational.

[jwkelley51]

Bo....you throw straight braid on a shakey heads and wacky rigs?