question

casey3535 · January 16, 2005, 09:17:45 AM

Hey guys i have a 2003 mercury 150 xr6 on a nitro. Starting this motor is a act of congress. when i get to the lake it takes 5-or more minutes to start, but once it starts once it will hit on first turn the rest of the day. Is there any thing that sounds like a problem here or is it just a cold natured motor. Thanks for your time fellows.

casey

DAWG · January 16, 2005, 09:25:19 AM

It could be a bad or weak coil, i heard of the same problem before and that is what was recommended.

casey3535 · January 16, 2005, 09:38:28 AM

Thanks, was that incident that you heard about also on a merc 150 xr6

Mike Cork · January 16, 2005, 01:48:53 PM

It has always seem to me that the Merc's are cold natured but 5 plus minutes is too long. I would think electrical also, but maybe in the choke system. Check back in a bit and I am sure Rowdy will be able to help out on this one.

casey3535 · January 16, 2005, 05:25:52 PM

It seems like when im trying to get it to start i always flood it, i let it set a minute and it eventualy starts up, once i get it going once im good for the rest of the day, it starts first turn of key.

Rowdy · January 17, 2005, 04:33:18 PM

Couple questions here I need to ask, First do you advance the throttle any at all before you start to crank her for the first time??? Next question is once she does start and is running, does she run really good like she should, or is she a little slow or weak feeling??? How long has it been since new plugs in her and more importantly here, are they the right plug for this motor??? It should have the plug number and type on the motor. Check for this and if you have quite a bit of time on her now and she has older plugs in her, might very well be all she needs. You should not advance the throttle at all before cranking her or while cranking her, this single one action will really foul those motors down and bad...

Then another good question here is once she gets to running, do both heads come to temp??? They have too, if not, find out why. Whether its a couple of plugs not firing from being fouled out or whatever, or a piece of trash in the stats and or high pressure by pass, holding these open letting water just run through the motor not allowing for temps to build and keep the plugs and motor burning clean. Simple things here to check first that are very easy over looked. Let us know what you find and we go from here...

dave the dope man · January 17, 2005, 07:03:19 PM

Casey, I have the exact outboard and it is on a Nitro also. If its cold out or I haven't run it for a while, I push the choke and never touch the throttle untill it fires. Don't take this as an insult but, are you priming the bulb? I prime the bulb EVERYTIME no matter when the last time I was out. Sorry to hear you are having problems with yours, Keep us updated (especailly me lol). I may need the fix for mine one day...Dave

casey3535 · January 18, 2005, 05:35:21 PM

Well i did change plugs about 2 months ago, i also thougt this might be a problem but i got the exact plug that came factory at the dealer. Rowdy this may sound dumd but i dont know what you mean by both heads coming to temp? I do flush my motor whenever i fish trashy or real nasty water.And i have goosed my hotfoot once or twice when trying to start but only a little once or twice, i wont do it again[thanks].

Dave are you saying that you just push in key and turn till cranks? I have done this for maybe 10 seconds before but i usally stop [affraid to mess something up] I do always prime bulb.

Appricate the help guys

Rowdy · January 18, 2005, 06:24:21 PM

Both heads coming to temp would be have the hood off the motor one time you go to the ramp. Fire up the motor let idle and see if both heads get really just almost hot. They both should come to a temp that would be more than you would want to hold your hand on. The motor would need to idle for a few minutes to see this temp too.

From the sounds of how long you hold the key in, you might want to hold the key in while you crank her over till she fires off then release the key and see if she wants to run and maybe just thump the throttle for a second, then let idle till she warms up. I have seen a few motors that needed the key punch in again while she was running at first to give just a little more fuel in the beginning.

casey3535 · January 18, 2005, 06:33:43 PM

Thanks, ill check the temp on the heads Thursday ill be going.

dave the dope man · January 18, 2005, 09:43:15 PM

Casey, I choke her till she runs. If she dies I'll "thump" the throttle once really quick and choke her just as I hit the starter. As she is idiling and beginning to warm up I may and I say "may" hit the choke every nnow and then just to keep her idiling. Sounds like you may be on the right track now....

Rowdy- would you suggest dual temp guages for each bank?

.......Dave

casey3535 · January 19, 2005, 06:48:42 AM

Dave i really dont have any trouble getting her running or warmed up, its just getting her to start the first time, once it hits no problem warming up ,it just sits there and idles and warms right up. But when starting the first time all i get is a dry crank [wont hit ] its turning over but just takes many tries to start up. I may be making no sense, but i am going to check on some of the stuff you guys recommened on thursday.

thanks

Rowdy · January 19, 2005, 07:52:47 AM

You know the EGT guages are kind of a cool setup but is not a have to thing really. I like to just pull the hood off say like every 3rd or 4th trip to the lake and while she warms up after cranking, check to see that both heads are coming to temp. This way you stay on top of things. No big deal really.

I think just from the sounds of this to me, you just are not getting fuel into the crankcase when you first start her for each time to the lake. Hold key in while you crank on her and until she hits, she may even need you to hold the key in even longer, lets say till she has started and has ran for 10 seconds or so. really need to listen to what the motor is telling you. She will start to load up and get way rich when you have held the key in too long. I know each motor will have different ways they start the best. I think once you get her choked enough to light off you will be able to let her idle up and as Dave said give the throttle a thump to help circulate the fuel oil mix through the motor and while doing this keep your hand on the key if you can and if she tries to die push the key in for a little. Let us all know how you fair on this next trip to the hole...

casey3535 · January 20, 2005, 05:52:45 PM

Okay guts i fished today, i held the key in and cranked till she started it took 15-20 seconds i feel like there is still a problem I dont think it should take that long to start. I checked the heads they felt like they were equally warm.
But anyway I had a cold day, caught 2 smallmouth, and one spot. Slow day but it was better than working. Thanks for the help I just wanted to tell you how it went. One other thing I noticed when she fired it was smoking heavy kinda like it was flooded, dont know if this means anything. But once i started it the first time it would start on demand as usually.

dave the dope man · January 20, 2005, 08:01:00 PM

Sounds good Casey. My Merc is cold natured also and when I first crank her she smokes quite a bit. but 15-20 seconds beats 3-5 minutes. Now when you say cold how cold was it today? We were pretty cold here today as well a low of 54 to a bone chilling high of 73

...I am sure Rowdy will fill in the blanks for you brother. As always keep us updated.....Dave

Rowdy · January 21, 2005, 04:08:28 AM

The smoking heavy at first time of the day is normal, several reasons for this; the biggest though is that we had to use the enrichment circuit(choke) to crank her. We add a lot more fuel/oil mix to help crank one for the first time of the day.

Now a question here,Dave ask this too, this question is with warning too; how cold was it??? The warning here is if the temps are below 45 degrees you need to be putting the oil in the fuel to make sure your getting oil to the motor. The biggest problem here is when our temps get cold and let say below 45, its wise to use what would normally be double oil, by adding one pint to every 6 gallons of gas you have. I know its going to smoke really bad and will be more ill tempered and all, and for sure in the afternoon when it warms up from the temps we had in the mornings. Let me say this, its what I would do, its better to be safe than sorry...
This is for everyone to make there own call here, just what the book will tell you and what Rowdy would do LOL...

Now, I am not sure how the new Mercury chokes are working in compaired to the older ones, but the Johnson and Evinrude carbed motors since the 80's have what is known as a primer. If used correct the first time of the day cranking is not at all bad for as grinding on the starter. You might see if this choke on your Merc might do the same thing. If it works like a primer it will push fuel each time you push the key in and do this even when the motor is not turning over. You just have to have the key in the on position.

Try this next time to see what happens, turn the key to the on position and then push the key in about 10 times, the last time you push the key in, push and hold the key in and start cranking. If this works like a primer you should only have to crank on her for 10-20 seconds max and she will fire. If it doesn't matter, still have the same length of time cranking over to get her to light off, most likely its just a choke.

Now something else I just thought of while typing the last stuff here, lets try turning the key on and leave on for 15 seconds, then turn off and right back on again. Do this three times before trying to choke and crank her. Now the problem I have here guys is I don't know if you have an electrical fuel pump on this motor or not, if you do, you should hear the pump cycle when you turn the key on. Listen for this pump when you first turn the key on. If you hear a pump run for 12-15 seconds and then it quites, you have this electrical pump and need to cycle the key a couple times to help pressure up the fuel system before you crank her the first time of the day.

Sorry guys I just don't know what Mercury has done on this motor for as changes in the fuel system, to better help tell you how to better crank this motor. Might try these last couple of things here and see if this makes it any better. Let us know how you fare with all this... Something else I should mention here about using the oil in the gas when temps get cold or below 45 degrees, is that you don't mix the oil in the fuel at all on the direct injection motors, just the carbed and EFI motors. The DI motors need to use a different oil all together for temps below 45. The Bombardier oil XD-100 is what you need to use when the temps get that cold...

I found this avatar I added to my profile, don't know if anyone has this on here or not, if so and I affend anyone with this please let me know and I will be glad to try and figure out how to remove it LOL...It only took me 3 no maybe 4 times to figure how to post this LOL...Regular computor wizard here LOL

casey3535 · January 21, 2005, 08:24:24 PM

Rowdy and Dave it was about 38 degrees this morning, but soon warmed up to almost a whomping 47 degrees. I wasnt aware that i needed to double up on oil in cold weather, I suppose your talking about the same way I done on break in when I first got my boat. thanks from me and one of my buddies who needed that info. But I will be back on the water Tuesday so i'll try what you said. I ran me a copy off of your last post.

Dave what kind of Nitro you got?

Thanks Rowdy, and Dave

dave the dope man · January 22, 2005, 01:31:57 PM

Hey Rowdy, The XR-6 doesn't have a fuel pump, FYI. The ckoke is an electric primer as you said, but I haven't tried that "pumping" the choke deal --yet. I'll let you know how that works....\\

Casey, I've got an '03 882 DC. there is a thread about proper performance set up and one on setting prop to pad. check them out, I have added approx 2.5 mph to my wot top speed and increased my hole shot since setting my boat up the right way.

Rowdy, did you see my post on when I tried to get a chrome plated water pump from BPS? I believe for now I am going to put a stock pump in and at the end of the summer replace that one if I still have this boat. I still would like to know if there are performance outboard wholesellers out there....Thanks Dude.......Dave

casey3535 · January 22, 2005, 02:33:59 PM

Dave we got the same boat,ill check out on gaining some hole shot, thanks

Rowdy · January 23, 2005, 03:15:27 AM

Dave

I don't guess I saw the post on the chomed pump. There is so much to see on this site, I think in all fairness to the size of this place and the amount of stuff on here, its fair to say I only touch the small corner of this place LOL. This all to my loss too, I am sure. Really a great bunch of people here.

Now let me know on the choke issues, from the way it sounds though, I think each time you push the key in it will be putting a short burst of fuel into the sytem. That would also help the first time start of the day, after a long period of the boat sitting on the trailer. That and then hold the key in while you crank on her should really cut the cranking time if this works like I think it does. I know the Carbed motors of Johnson and Evinrudes really just start right up if done right. Be sure to let us know what you see with this...