New Member...Richmond, VA...New Boat Questions

96ImpalaSS · May 12, 2006, 08:46:11 PM

Greetings to everyone who takes the time to read my first post. First, my apologies as this will be a long post. I realize many don't like to read long ones but to those who do, thank you. I've been lurking for a few days and read through all the "New Boat", "Best Boat", etc. threads with the information aboout buying used, buying from a pro, taking rides, etc. Every Saturday for the past 3 months we've been looking at bass boats. I've waited 25 years to own my first fully rigged bass boat. Since a Stratos dealer is 10 minutes from the house, we started there. Another Saturday we drove an hour and looked at Rangers. Another week we drove an hour and looked at Tritons and Bass Cats. A few weeks ago we drove 2 1/2 hours and looked at more Rangers. Last Saturday I was within an eyelash of driving away with a 2006 Ranger Z20 Comanche that I'd picked out April 22nd. I won't get into specifics, or which dealer (unless he jerks around with my $5,000 deposit), or what Ranger did or didn't do, but let's just say I wasn't about to spend $48,000 for boat that had been torn apart by two salesmen trying to figure out why the fuel gauge wouldn't work as they were going over the boat with us. I"d always wanted a Ranger ever since I can remember but after what happened, and Ranger's reluctance to act in the best interest of the customer, that's out of the question now.

So I'm back to square one and looking for some advice. Again, after reading all the boat buying and new boat threads, the common theme the advice givers want to know is what I can afford and what will I be using it for and what do I want out of it so I'll try to answer those since I've never owned a big bass boat. The reason I'm buying one is I'm tired of relying on others with a boat and tired of trying to find shoreline access places to fish. I want to fish any body of water around here from small lakes like Orange and Briery Creek Lakes to large water like Buggs Island (Kerr) and the Potomac. Financially, I can afford any boat at any price so price is not a concern. But that doesn't mean I'm crazy enough to spend $50,000 on a boat that's worth $35,000 just because of its name. I will mostly fish out of it alone with an occassional friend or my wife coming along. I've never fished a tournament and really don't plan to but I want a boat that will suffice in case I decide to without wishing I'd bought a bigger boat. I want a boat that has a TON of front deck room, storage and comfort. The boat has to be reliable and backed by world class customer service. I thought Ranger had that but I didn't get that kind of treatment from them. I don't care about going 80mph since I can't catch fish at that speed so that's not important to me. Of course, I don't want to take two hours to run 10 miles in case I have to either. So here are the questions I've been struggling with for the past few months:

What's the best manufacturer around offering the "best bang for the buck"? I realize this is like choosing between Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, Honda, etc. but this has been crazy. I've NEVER spent this long deciding what to buy.

Do I buy a Stratos because the dealer is so close? Since Genmar bought them are they overpriced?

I like the Tritons but are they overpriced because of B.A.S.S. and all the marketing hype? Are they really worth the dollars? One dealer who is 5 hours away quoted me $38,995 for a 2006 Tr-21x with a Yamaha 225 HPDI (claimed he bought all these combos Triton had before they signed on with Mercury). The Triton dealer an hour from me quoted me $42,200 for his Tr-21x and it has a 225 Merc Opti XS Pro and a Lowrance 332c in the console. This dealer also sells Bass Cats but sold them all and won't get anymore in until later in the year when he orders the 2007s. Both Tritons have the Bassmaster Classic package as well.

An aquaintance of mine who fishes some of the pro tours has a 2005 Triton Bassmaster Classic Edition, upgraded electronics and TM, is selling it next week after he returns from the Southern Tour stop at Eufala. He gets a new one every year and everyone talks about how well he keeps up his boats (I read the advice here about buying from pros) and it's $33,000.

I haven't looked at Champions yet but read some good posts on them here. One thing I like about their website is they list the square footage of their decks and not just the length of the boat. Like the Stratos, have they now become overpriced because of their Genmar connection? What do the 2006s go for?

Another boat I read about here but am unfamiliar with is the Legend. What do the 2006s go for?

Should I buy one from a dealer close or should I continue to make these long 2 1/5 to 6 hour drives looking at boats? There does not seem to be that many bass boat dealers near Richmond.

I'd like to keep the boat in my garage but it's only 20' 10" long (two garage doors so I'm also limited to maneuvering it for more room) and that would limit me to an 18" boat (as long as it has a swing away tongue) which I'm not all that crazy about. I'd also be limited to the waters I could fish. I'd already lined up a secure storage location for the Ranger.

I'm sure I've left out something but any feedback at this point is appreciated. I've given myself more headaches the past few months over this boat purchase than I've had the past few years combined.

P.S. This seems like a great site with a ton of good information. Thank You.

Kal-Kevin · May 12, 2006, 11:05:36 PM

as you say most are over priced do to the name of it, if you want it to be the right thing, the problem is you need to take a test ride in it to see if it fits you. I would not be happy in fiberglass so all would be out to me other then tracker. I know this will not help you out the only thing I would say is locate a dealer the sell many different type boat and make a day of it on the water.

Kal-Kevin

Mike Cork · May 13, 2006, 09:56:53 AM

96ImpalaSS Wow you have done and excellent job with the first step I always recommend and that is research

Second is test drives, Like Kal-Kevin said you have to find the boat that fits you. There is a reason there are so many different brands out there

Sorry to hear you didn't have a good experience with Ranger Boats. Yes they are very expensive but they do build a good product. You can definitely get as good of a product for less money, but if a ranger is what you have always wanted then there is some merit to that

Sounds like you are definitely looking at the high end for boats. But as you have already seen the 21 foot class is very expensive. But the ride and comfort you get from any of them is what it is all about. There are several brands out there and I am partial to Legends. And here is a couple reasons why.

First, they drive like Cadillacs, there is no chine walk, the are very solid ride like a champion, and you will bust the 70mph mark no problem. Storage is more than ample with every possibility taken into consideration. Each boat is hand made to custom fit/order. As you probably have seen on the site even the colors are wildly custom if you want to get that extreme personal touch. As far as price, the LE21 will cost you in the same range as any of the other 21 foot boats you have looked at, the difference is in the total package, you will not have to add anything. All their boats come completely loaded. As far as customer service, in my opinion they are unmatched. Give them a call, you will instantly see what I am talking about. Just click on their advertisement here on the site (by the way their brochure tells you the square footage also

)

Okay with all that said. Third thing I always recommend, take your time, drive how ever far you have to and be open minded about every boat you see or ride in. A new boat now a days is a huge investment. Don't let others good or bad experiences influence your initial opinion or you might over look something or give more merit to something that you shouldn't. That is not to say that when you finally decide between a couple boats and are looking at the pro's and con's that you shouldn't take this outside info into consideration. Just in your initial research keep and open mind, there are lemons in every brand.

Good luck with your hunt, I know it can be frustrating but with all the effort you are putting into this you will find the perfect boat for you

If you would like to talk more about the Legends stop in the Legend Forum and ask away

96ImpalaSS · May 13, 2006, 12:37:59 PM

Thanks for the replies. Thanks Mike. Coming here the the other day opened my eyes to other boats like Legends and Champions which I'd not considered or known about (as with Legends) at all. I'd been looking at the most popular boats (Stratos, Ranger, Triton, Bass Cat and Nitro) without knowing or considering the others. Coming here has been a double-edged sword--great info and feedback but now I have even more possibilities to think about. I'm definitely calling Legends Monday. Not sure there's a dealer close by but I'll check. Want to also check out the Champions as well. Like I said, even though the 20 and 21 footers are expensive I'm not finances limited but I still don't want to spend $50k when I can get the same type of boat for $40k. Thanks again and I'm going to post on the Legends forum with a few questions about standard features, options, price, order time and dealer locations.

Mike Noble · May 13, 2006, 03:58:06 PM

96ImpapaSS...you can check out the Legend website for more information...

Legend Bass Boats

T1A · May 13, 2006, 05:20:32 PM

Along with the others first thing I would do is stay away from all the posts that compare this boat to that boat...Make up your own mind...Like Mike said, try and test ride as many boats as you can to figure out what YOU want. You may even want to go as a non-boater is a club for awhile and experience the rides in other boats...It will all come together for ya...I spent 16 months trying to figure out which one I wanted. Good luck with hunt ...when its over you will have the boat YOU want and enjoy!

Rph111 · May 13, 2006, 08:12:27 PM

You won't get better support or service than with a Basscat! Also the ride and handling are excellent. If you ever have any question about anything you can call them or post on their website and they will respond or put you in contact with someone who knows within a couple of hours.

96ImpalaSS · May 13, 2006, 09:33:58 PM

Thanks again for all of the advice. That one Triton/Bass Cat dealer I mention in my first post had a dark blue Puma in his showroom that I looked at a couple of months ago when I first started my research. That was a drop-dead gorgeous boat and I've kicked myself a few times for not buying it then since it's since been sold. When I went back to his showroom last week after the Ranger fiasco to check on his inventory it was still there waiting for the own to come pick it up. It looked even better the 2nd time around. Bass Cats impress me a lot.

realdealprops · May 13, 2006, 11:23:18 PM

I would highly recommend taking a test ride in the two or three you are truely interested in. You will be surprised at how quickly that can make up your mind. I am not talking about a 5-10 min. ride down the river. I would go spend a couple hours in each. Drive it, run the trolling motor etc. As long as it has a prop on the back, I like it. Good Luck!

Mike Cork · May 14, 2006, 08:56:37 AM

realdealprops, how long of a drive would it be for 96ImpalaSS to get to you?

Kody Bradbury · May 14, 2006, 02:36:56 PM

It's about 15-20min to get to Sanderson Marine/ Propeller Dynamics from Richmond.

96ImpalaSS · May 14, 2006, 06:18:25 PM

realdealprops, which boats do you sell? When I look for a Champion dealer from their site, Sanderson's listed but when I go to the site, it lists Allison and Legend. When I filled out the contact form last week it lists Champion, Allison and Glambler but not Legend. I on the north side of town so I'm about 30 miles from you.

Next Monday I'm scheduled to go to High Rock Lake to see a 2005 Tr-21x, 225 Merc Opti, BMC Package, upgraded electronics and 36v TM, for $33,000.

Kody Bradbury · May 14, 2006, 06:32:19 PM

Hey 96,

They sell Allisons and Legends. I'm running one of their demo Legend LE-21s right now. like I posted in you topic on the Legend board, if you want to go for a ride or just meet somewhere in Richmond to check out a new Legend first hand, just let me know.

realdealprops · May 15, 2006, 06:23:08 AM

Looks like Dkota05 has you all taking care of. He will be able to answer any of your Legend questions. But feel free to contact us at any time. We can still get Champions, we just don't stock them anymore.

JavelinMan · May 29, 2006, 03:49:50 PM

Hey 96', if you are still looking for a boat, just for grins try commonwealthboatbrokers.com. They are located in Richmond next to Greentop storting goods. A good friend of mine got a killer deal on a new Stratos fish and ski. Everything they have are bank repos. Some are junk but there are several nice new boats. Just a thought. Good luck on finding just the right boat. It took me 2 years to decide on what I got.

96ImpalaSS · June 06, 2006, 05:32:04 AM

Well. as I indicated in my initial post, I wasn't going to get into specifics about my nightmare with the Ranger dealer or Ranger Boats, but since they won't return my $5,000 down payment, I'll share specifics.

On Apr 22nd we drove the 2½ hours from Richmond VA to Rocky Mt NC and selected our Ranger Z20 from Westcott Marine LLC, dba Webb's Fiberglass & Sports (921 S. Wesleyan Blvd, Rocky Mount NC 27804), Sales Rep: Fred Page (252-446-1821); Matthew Wescott, Owner.

Our Ranger Boat Z20 Comanche upgrades included tilt steering, 4 bank-battery charger, electronics (Lowrance 332C), and trolling motor (101 Pro Maxx w/Lift Assist). Fred told us he could have our boat ready by Apr 26th or 27th. We told him we would rather pick it up ourselves Apr 29th. We called Fred on Apr 28th and he said was still waiting for the part from Ranger Boats and our boat wouldn't be ready until late on May 1st. On the 1st, Fred said again he would deliver the boat to us in Richmond on the May 2nd but we told him we would rather pick it up on May 6th (2 full weeks after we paid our down payment). He assured us it was ready. On May 3rd we learned from our insurance company that the boat documents had not been fax'd to them so that the binder could be prepared. We called Fred who, at that point, sent them. We arrived at Webbs promptly when they opened on May 6th (8:30am).

Upon seeing our boat, we immediately noticed that the wrong trolling motor had been installed. Fred, after we showed him our copy of the bill of sale, admitted it was the wrong one. The correct one was then cannibalized from one of his unsold Ranger boats to install the correct trolling motor on our Z20 which took 2 hours. After the correct trolling motor was finally installed and the dealer was reviewing boat operations with us, we discovered that the fuel gauges were inoperative. After waiting another 2 hours for 2 sales representatives to diagnose and correct the problem, we asked how a brand new boat could have such a problem, they said and I quote, "manufacturing defect." When we expressed shock, he assured us that he "had seen worse mistakes from the Ranger factory." As I probed their diagnosis of the fuel gauge problem, I asked "then technically the gauge has never worked, correct?" and the sales rep responded by saying, "That's right, theoretically it's never worked." At this stage, our boat had been (from our perspective) ripped apart: seats off, console off, with wires everywhere. The 2 sales representatives were standing in the boat with a long length of wire telling us that they could "work around it" and that if we could just wait "another 20 minutes", we could take delivery. Another 15 minutes passed. The sales representatives then said, "the best person to be doing this is our mechanics and we'll get them to fix everything on Monday and I'll (Fred) bring the boat up to you in Richmond. "

We were forced to leave without our boat. May 8th we contacted Ranger Boats and indicated what our expectations were at that point. They were: that we needed someone from Ranger Boats to go to North Carolina, physically inspect our boat from bow to stern, and attest, in writing, that the safety and structural/physical integrity of this boat is as if it came directly from the factory based on the fuel gauge malfunction and subsequent dismantling by the salespersons. If Ranger Boats could not provide us this remedy, then we expected Ranger to immediately contact the dealer to cancel our loan contract, keep the boat, and refund us our down payment. Since Ranger Boats could not or would not meet our expectations, we demanded that our contract be canceled and our down payment refunded. To date, this has not happened.

On May 8th, we contacted Ranger Boats' East Coast Regional Sales Manager, Ron Enslen, 704-933-4396, 704-305-0387, and reiterated our expections and he assured us that our $5,000 deposit would be returned immediately. Again, on June 1st, we contacted Ron Enslen and he again indicated he spoke with the owner, Matthew Wescott, and assured us our $5,0000 would be returned. To date, this has NOT been done. On June 1st, we contacted the owner, Matthew Wescott, to inquire about our down payment, and before we could say anything, he began with a profanity-laced tirade that we'd expect from a juvenile delequent instead of a business owner. Therefore, we sent our complaints to the NC and AR Better Business Bureau, Attorneys General office of both NC and AR and we've contacted a law firm in Raleigh, NC to represent us in an UNFAIR AND DECEPTIVE TRADE PRACTICES ACT suit. Three things are perfectly clear to us with this nightmare. First, anyone who does business with Webb's Fiberglas and Sports is taking a HUGE risk with their money and the products they sell. Secondly, and more importantly, is Ron Enslen, Rangers Boats Sales Manager, repeatedly lied to us and continues to do so. He never got Matthew Wescott to agree to refund our down payment on a boat that was torn apart by two salesmen. Finally, Keith Daffron and others we've spoken with at Ranger Boats represented themselves to us as arrogant, cocky and condenscending, and continually misrepresented their interest and desired resolutions to this matter. Therefore, we've decided to let the AG's of NC and AR as well as the courts handle this matter from this point.

The $5,000 is no longer important to us. Because of Matthew Wescott's profanity-laced tirade and Ron Enslen's repeated lies to us this has become a personal issue with us and we'll take it as far as we can for resolution. We've since purchased a 2005 Triton Tr-21x. Not because we like Tritons but because we view them as a stiffest competitor to Ranger Boats and Webb's Fiberglas and Sports.

Mike Cork · June 06, 2006, 05:46:16 AM

Wow, what and ordeal. I am sorry you had to go through this but better to find out before you signed the paperwork for delivery. I hope the AG's do get seriously involved and this company is properly repremanded.

Kerrbassguide · June 17, 2006, 06:00:14 AM

Hey Impala, I must say I was very disturbed to see your ordeal with Ranger boats. I am a guide on Kerr Lake and I certainly hope that I don't have a similiar nightmare. Your posting has made me very wary of Ranger at this time and I intend on covering all of my bases. Thank you for sharing your ordeal with us I hope I have not made a mistake.
Well. as I indicated in my initial post, I wasn't going to get into specifics about my nightmare with the Ranger dealer or Ranger Boats, but since they won't return my $5,000 down payment, I'll share specifics.

On Apr 22nd we drove the 2½ hours from Richmond VA to Rocky Mt NC and selected our Ranger Z20 from Westcott Marine LLC, dba Webb's Fiberglass & Sports (921 S. Wesleyan Blvd, Rocky Mount NC 27804), Sales Rep: Fred Page (252-446-1821); Matthew Wescott, Owner.

Our Ranger Boat Z20 Comanche upgrades included tilt steering, 4 bank-battery charger, electronics (Lowrance 332C), and trolling motor (101 Pro Maxx w/Lift Assist). Fred told us he could have our boat ready by Apr 26th or 27th. We told him we would rather pick it up ourselves Apr 29th. We called Fred on Apr 28th and he said was still waiting for the part from Ranger Boats and our boat wouldn't be ready until late on May 1st. On the 1st, Fred said again he would deliver the boat to us in Richmond on the May 2nd but we told him we would rather pick it up on May 6th (2 full weeks after we paid our down payment). He assured us it was ready. On May 3rd we learned from our insurance company that the boat documents had not been fax'd to them so that the binder could be prepared. We called Fred who, at that point, sent them. We arrived at Webbs promptly when they opened on May 6th (8:30am).

Upon seeing our boat, we immediately noticed that the wrong trolling motor had been installed. Fred, after we showed him our copy of the bill of sale, admitted it was the wrong one. The correct one was then cannibalized from one of his unsold Ranger boats to install the correct trolling motor on our Z20 which took 2 hours. After the correct trolling motor was finally installed and the dealer was reviewing boat operations with us, we discovered that the fuel gauges were inoperative. After waiting another 2 hours for 2 sales representatives to diagnose and correct the problem, we asked how a brand new boat could have such a problem, they said and I quote, "manufacturing defect." When we expressed shock, he assured us that he "had seen worse mistakes from the Ranger factory." As I probed their diagnosis of the fuel gauge problem, I asked "then technically the gauge has never worked, correct?" and the sales rep responded by saying, "That's right, theoretically it's never worked." At this stage, our boat had been (from our perspective) ripped apart: seats off, console off, with wires everywhere. The 2 sales representatives were standing in the boat with a long length of wire telling us that they could "work around it" and that if we could just wait "another 20 minutes", we could take delivery. Another 15 minutes passed. The sales representatives then said, "the best person to be doing this is our mechanics and we'll get them to fix everything on Monday and I'll (Fred) bring the boat up to you in Richmond. "

We were forced to leave without our boat. May 8th we contacted Ranger Boats and indicated what our expectations were at that point. They were: that we needed someone from Ranger Boats to go to North Carolina, physically inspect our boat from bow to stern, and attest, in writing, that the safety and structural/physical integrity of this boat is as if it came directly from the factory based on the fuel gauge malfunction and subsequent dismantling by the salespersons. If Ranger Boats could not provide us this remedy, then we expected Ranger to immediately contact the dealer to cancel our loan contract, keep the boat, and refund us our down payment. Since Ranger Boats could not or would not meet our expectations, we demanded that our contract be canceled and our down payment refunded. To date, this has not happened.

On May 8th, we contacted Ranger Boats' East Coast Regional Sales Manager, Ron Enslen, 704-933-4396, 704-305-0387, and reiterated our expections and he assured us that our $5,000 deposit would be returned immediately. Again, on June 1st, we contacted Ron Enslen and he again indicated he spoke with the owner, Matthew Wescott, and assured us our $5,0000 would be returned. To date, this has NOT been done. On June 1st, we contacted the owner, Matthew Wescott, to inquire about our down payment, and before we could say anything, he began with a profanity-laced tirade that we'd expect from a juvenile delequent instead of a business owner. Therefore, we sent our complaints to the NC and AR Better Business Bureau, Attorneys General office of both NC and AR and we've contacted a law firm in Raleigh, NC to represent us in an UNFAIR AND DECEPTIVE TRADE PRACTICES ACT suit. Three things are perfectly clear to us with this nightmare. First, anyone who does business with Webb's Fiberglas and Sports is taking a HUGE risk with their money and the products they sell. Secondly, and more importantly, is Ron Enslen, Rangers Boats Sales Manager, repeatedly lied to us and continues to do so. He never got Matthew Wescott to agree to refund our down payment on a boat that was torn apart by two salesmen. Finally, Keith Daffron and others we've spoken with at Ranger Boats represented themselves to us as arrogant, cocky and condenscending, and continually misrepresented their interest and desired resolutions to this matter. Therefore, we've decided to let the AG's of NC and AR as well as the courts handle this matter from this point.

The $5,000 is no longer important to us. Because of Matthew Wescott's profanity-laced tirade and Ron Enslen's repeated lies to us this has become a personal issue with us and we'll take it as far as we can for resolution. We've since purchased a 2005 Triton Tr-21x. Not because we like Tritons but because we view them as a stiffest competitor to Ranger Boats and Webb's Fiberglas and Sports.

[/quote]

96ImpalaSS · July 31, 2006, 12:08:05 PM

Thought I would provide an update to my situation with Webbs Fiberglas and Sports. After filing my complaints with NC's BBB and OAG, I filed suit with the Nash County Small Claims Court against the business, to include supoenas I filed on Ron Enslen of Ranger Boats and Fred Page, the Sales Manager of Webbs Fiberglas and Sports. I just returned from my court date and we won our case, including court costs. I'll be out the $340 for the labor to install the upgrades but I'll recoup the remainder ($4,660), plus all court costs, and he has 10 days to remit. Ironically, this is what I offered the dealer on June 2nd when I called but of course he wanted $2,000. So I'm out $340, plus a half tank of gas and a vacation day, but at least I'll be receivng the bulk of the $5,000 within the next 10 days. I'll be using some of the proceeds to put a Hamby's and a AM/FM/CD player on our 2005 Tr21-X. This is been a valuable lesson and an experience I would not wish on anyone. For you new boat buyers, or anyone dealing with this business, I have just two words of advice--"caveat emptor".

Creel Limit Zero · July 31, 2006, 12:44:23 PM

My goodness Impala. What an ordeal. Glad you are recouping most of your funds, I can not believe all that you went through.

spetro · July 31, 2006, 09:16:24 PM

WOW......what a story

96ImpalaSS · August 24, 2006, 05:56:25 AM

Well, it's been 3 1/2 weeks since we won our judgment with the Small Claims Court and the dealer still refuses to comply with the court's decision. We filed a Notice Of Rights (NOR) with the court last week. If he still doesn't comply after a few weeks they'll send the sheriff out to collect. I contacted an attorney in Rocky Mount, NC in case it comes to that. I can't imagine anyone doing business with this dealer after reading our story.

scwildbill · August 24, 2006, 08:01:42 AM

Sheesh what a nightmare!!.... Not a good first impression for a new boat owner!.... Looks like they messed with the wrong person this time!.... Good luck 96Imp......

Creel Limit Zero · August 24, 2006, 08:06:56 AM

The nightmare continues.

This is all just ridiculous. Hopefully you will get those funds back soon.

96ImpalaSS · September 23, 2006, 07:13:24 PM

Well, it's finally come to an end and, ironically, 5 months to the day (4/22/06 - 9/22/06). After I filed the Notice Of Rights (NOR) last month Webbs Fiberglass and Sports and, specifically the owner Matthew Wescott, FINALLY paid their judgment to the Nash County Superior Court. Yesterday we received a check for the amount owed to us by the dealer from the Nash County Superior Court that included ALL courts costs and interest. Hopefully sharing our ordeal these past 5 months will save someone from a similar experience or at least provide some information on what to expect.